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Old 10-05-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
M.O.T.H.
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Originally Posted by herniateddisc View Post
So in summary,

Romo is fine it is all the WR fault. Austin runs bad routes, Witten, Williams, Crayton, etc.... because he is off there too.

Hurd is great. Fact he has trouble getting open is OK because he has good hands. BTW, TO or Austin score on that broken play.

Bobby Carpenter is the reason our D can't close. Even when he makes a good play he gets bashed.

The design of the Offense sucks right now because Willams, Hurd, Witten, Crayton are all SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

Austin should start. At least the safeties need to be aware of were he is lining up. Be nice if he can hit Austin in stride just once.

Roy, Hurd Crayton, Witten scare no one. I had a similar comment about this Offense end of 2007 when TO went down. We keep putting in "dependable" guys who compress the field b/c they are 4.6-4.7 guys.
ugh.

I know Romo is playing terrible. It's not like any of our receivers are helping him out, though. Hence, why I said we could use a change.

And Hurd doesnt have a problem getting open. Wow, he got shut down by one of the better corners in the league. You cant even make a definitive judgment on Hurd for this season because, he plays under 5 plays per game in the offense on average. Austin is out there and it's not like he has shined. You overrate Austin, who hasnt done anything yet. Neither Hurd or Austin have great production but, you stack them up side by side and Hurd looks superior in just about everything except for foot speed. Austin is not a #1 guy and he will never be a #1 guy. He has a good skill set because of his size and speed but, he hasnt been able to do anything with it, just like many before him. I want him to do well but, he isnt this great player yet. So how you know Austin, who's proven to have pretty average hands, makes that play, I dont know. Right now, Austin is Randal Williams until he proves otherwise. He's been getting reps. Granted not a whole lot but, he's been in there. We need one of these guys to step up and it was Hurd making the plays down the stretch, not Austin. I just think that if Romo really does have a good feel for Hurd, which seems pretty apparent for a while now, you should play him. And I'm not an Austin hater if I'm coming off as such, I know Romo has missed him on a couple potentially big plays this year but, it's not like Austin has been getting open on a consistent basis and if the ball does reach him, who knows if he'll actually catch it?

And Carpenter isnt the sole reason why our defense cant close. blah, blah, blah. But he is awful, anyone could see it. For every one good play, there are ten bad plays. He is a bad football player.

Witten doesnt scare anyone? Okay. And Roy doesnt scare anyone? He may not be all that great but, he still has commanded some double teams this year for whatever reason. Roy and Witten can certainly stretch the field but, it seems like the coaching staff/fans have scared Romo into captain checkdown. It doesnt help that the game plan has shifted that way but, Romo doesnt even want to take those chances anymore. It's all a big mess at the moment.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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I thought Roy ran a 4.3 at the combine. Why does everyone say he's a slow possession WR? I guess it's the difference between timed speed and playing speed.
The thing with Roy is that he runs a lot of his routes like he runs a 4.7. But when he has the ball in space you can see some of that speed come out. There is no way he is that fast anymore but, he's a 4.5 guy probably.
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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ugh.

I know Romo is playing terrible. It's not like any of our receivers are helping him out, though. Hence, why I said we could use a change.

And Hurd doesnt have a problem getting open. Wow, he got shut down by one of the better corners in the league. You cant even make a definitive judgment on Hurd for this season because, he plays under 5 plays per game in the offense on average. Austin is out there and it's not like he has shined. You overrate Austin, who hasnt done anything yet. Neither Hurd or Austin have great production but, you stack them up side by side and Hurd looks superior in just about everything except for foot speed. Austin is not a #1 guy and he will never be a #1 guy. He has a good skill set because of his size and speed but, he hasnt been able to do anything with it, just like many before him. I want him to do well but, he isnt this great player yet. So how you know Austin, who's proven to have pretty average hands, makes that play, I dont know. Right now, Austin is Randal Williams until he proves otherwise. He's been getting reps. Granted not a whole lot but, he's been in there. We need one of these guys to step up and it was Hurd making the plays down the stretch, not Austin. I just think that if Romo really does have a good feel for Hurd, which seems pretty apparent for a while now, you should play him. And I'm not an Austin hater if I'm coming off as such, I know Romo has missed him on a couple potentially big plays this year but, it's not like Austin has been getting open on a consistent basis and if the ball does reach him, who knows if he'll actually catch it?

And Carpenter isnt the sole reason why our defense cant close. blah, blah, blah. But he is awful, anyone could see it. For every one good play, there are ten bad plays. He is a bad football player.

Witten doesnt scare anyone? Okay. And Roy doesnt scare anyone? He may not be all that great but, he still has commanded some double teams this year for whatever reason. Roy and Witten can certainly stretch the field but, it seems like the coaching staff/fans have scared Romo into captain checkdown. It doesnt help that the game plan has shifted that way but, Romo doesnt even want to take those chances anymore. It's all a big mess at the moment.
Comparing Hurd to Austin is like comparing a Porsche to a Land Rover. Completely different players. Hurd will never stretch the field or ever draw safety help. He will get open in the soft parts of zones and occasionally get behind a LB for a big gainer. Austin can attack the safeties with speed in much less time than Hurd ever will. He can get a post route and take it 80 yards. I hate comparing them for this reason. To me Hurd and Crayton are comparable.

Witten, also, love him but not a vertical threat. He is an outlet valve for Romo with sure hands. But to think he can do what a Shockey or Winslow or Gates does in the open field and deep .... just not clear analysis. Again, go the tape. He just does not run that well.

I hated Carpenter from day 1 just like Spencer but I notice the more he plays the better he gets. I have no idea why and it still sucks nuts. But frankly if you hate Bobby, you should just loathe Spencer. He makes no plays. Rewind tape from yesterday. What has Spencer done to make you feel their is hope as opposed to Carpenter? Frankly Spencer was handed the job b/c he is loved by Jerrah and Wade -- he was their guy. The guy they traded for. He sucks so far. But Bobby, OHHHHHH, he is the dog that gets kicked. Frankly, at least with Carpenter I am pretty sure he is not a blithering moron and can probably help call signals.

And with respect to Tony Turnover. He is shot. He is a flake. He came second as Mr Basketball in Wisconsin. He never won in College. He could not get drafted. He can't make the PGA cut, Gets the girl but ....... get the story????????? He is the guy in High School who by now should have a beer gut packing crap at Kohl's or wherever. Awww shcuks he is so nice!!! LOSER!

Tony's luck? He met Bill Parcells and Parcells knows how to make boys behave like men with ballz. He is not like Wade with his fahhh-gott tea-bagging arse licking Tony's private parts now that Jessica has lost a few pounds. Romo is a loser and always will be. He should go be Letterman's intern. I hope Tony Turnover saves his money b/c within 2 years, he may need it back in Osh-Kosh Wisconsin Loser-ville with no job and lots of magazine cover pictures hanging on his wall papered mansion.

And then we have the biggest idiot -- our soft headed GM. Wade is what he is and we all knew it ahead of time but what is Jones' excuse? For a rich guy, he really has no clue how to run an NFL team. Makes me wonder if he simply hit two lottery tickets. It does happen you know.

So F this team. They suck donkey sack and love ayyy-nuhl. Like a Porn Guy who gets soft before the money shot. All show, no dough.

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Old 10-05-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I thought Roy ran a 4.3 at the combine. Why does everyone say he's a slow possession WR? I guess it's the difference between timed speed and playing speed.
I don't think he's as slow as people make him out to be. He's just tall and lanky, so it looks like he runs slow because he takes long strides.

And after thinking about it for awhile, I gotta give props to the Broncos. They played one helluva game on defense. They did after all get 6 sacks, and that was against a very good pass blocking team. We can talk all day long about Garrett, Romo, Roy, Austin, etc. until the cows come home, but their defense has to get their due. Hell the two turnovers that happened really speak more about what the Broncos did. The fumble was a brilliant play that would've happened to any team, and that pick by Champ was pretty damn good.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Default Wingo was right

Dallas is at 2-2. They're just an average fb team now. And Romo is just an average QB.

TREY WINGO
ESPN NFL TODAY,
10-5-09

I'm paraphrasing but for once Wingo was right. To be better than average they have to play better, & that's all uphill with the Roy Williams rib cartilage & Felix Jones injuries.

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Old 10-05-2009, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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I was half paying attention but, did you hear him say Dallas' 4th WR Miles Hurd? lol.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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I thought Roy ran a 4.3 at the combine. Why does everyone say he's a slow possession WR? I guess it's the difference between timed speed and playing speed.
Desean Jackson is what true "4.3 speed" looks like on the field.

Roy Williams is a perfect example of why 40 times are ****. He's clumsy as hell too.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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Romo didn't know that last play was 4th down, according to PFT and Clarence Hill. Mind blowing. Clearly the dude's head isn't in the game. Bench him, I'd rather see Kitna at this point. Does anyone out there think we'd be worse than 2-2 if Kitna had been starting for 4 games? We'd likely have the same record, because all Romo has done is beat up on 2 crap teams, blow it vs one great team, and **** the bed versus the Broncos. Kitna could have done that, and actually may have done better since he's got chemistry with Roy Williams. Kitna in 09 please.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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This team has a completely new identity every week. Weirdest thing I have ever seen. If I had to point a finger to that, I'd point to coaching.

...and clearly, undeniably, the offense is missing a big play threat like TO was while he was here. Not saying that we should've kept TO because he's no longer looking so hot (to be fair, neither did Randy Moss in OAK). But we lack a big play threat at WR. Roy is not clutch.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Romo didn't know that last play was 4th down, according to PFT and Clarence Hill. Mind blowing. Clearly the dude's head isn't in the game. Bench him, I'd rather see Kitna at this point. Does anyone out there think we'd be worse than 2-2 if Kitna had been starting for 4 games? We'd likely have the same record, because all Romo has done is beat up on 2 crap teams, blow it vs one great team, and **** the bed versus the Broncos. Kitna could have done that, and actually may have done better since he's got chemistry with Roy Williams. Kitna in 09 please.
Why would you rather have Kitna if you think we'd still be 2-2?
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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Romo didn't know that last play was 4th down, according to PFT and Clarence Hill. Mind blowing. Clearly the dude's head isn't in the game. Bench him, I'd rather see Kitna at this point. Does anyone out there think we'd be worse than 2-2 if Kitna had been starting for 4 games? We'd likely have the same record, because all Romo has done is beat up on 2 crap teams, blow it vs one great team, and **** the bed versus the Broncos. Kitna could have done that, and actually may have done better since he's got chemistry with Roy Williams. Kitna in 09 please.
That maybe the saddest cowboys news I've ever heard.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Dallas is at 2-2. They're just an average fb team now. And Romo is just an average QB.

TREY WINGO
ESPN NFL TODAY,
10-5-09

I'm paraphrasing but for once Wingo was right. To be better than average they have to play better, & that's all uphill with the Roy Williams rib cartilage & Felix Jones injuries.
It's nice to know that Trey Wingo has perfect hindsight 20/20 vision. IMPRESSIVE!!! lol. I wish I got paid to say that.

Dallas has plenty of time to figure things out. That was a classic trap game. KC is the perfect opponent to bounce back on. Just watch next week as the same media clowns will start to say "Don't give up on Dallas just yet".
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Romo didn't know that last play was 4th down, according to PFT and Clarence Hill. Mind blowing. Clearly the dude's head isn't in the game. Bench him, I'd rather see Kitna at this point. Does anyone out there think we'd be worse than 2-2 if Kitna had been starting for 4 games? We'd likely have the same record, because all Romo has done is beat up on 2 crap teams, blow it vs one great team, and **** the bed versus the Broncos. Kitna could have done that, and actually may have done better since he's got chemistry with Roy Williams. Kitna in 09 please.
oh. my. god.

facepalm (first time using this phrase)
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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That maybe the saddest cowboys news I've ever heard.
Don't believe PFT and Clarence Hill.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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wow, I can't believe he didn't know it was 4th down....
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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wow, I can't believe he didn't know it was 4th down....
Clarence Hill's job is to make money by making news. I won't believe this unless it comes from a better source. Folks, we're talking PFT here...
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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Ya but if he does do that on the field -flashes three with his fingers to the ref and tries to hurry the linemen - I'd be inclined to believe that he really thought it was third down, with the spike play failing to register.

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Old 10-05-2009, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Ya but if he does do that on the field -flashes three with his fingers to the ref and tries to hurry the linemen - I'd be inclined to believe that he really thought it was third down, with the spike play failing to register.
Oh well. Stupid Tony. I guess I might've missed that with the chow mein noodles splattered across my TV screen.

Why do I make excuses for the guy? Haha... Whatevers. He's still a good QB in my mind.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:52 AM    (permalink
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I agree with MOTH, Romo has been forced to play the captain checkdown role. Do you remember the last few seasons? We were good on offense because we were able to get big plays. This year it's completely different, it seems that we can't pass the ball to save our life. Romo must forget the Giants' game and start doing what he does best which is taking chances. During a game, a couple of years ago, Aikman said that Romo was always looking for the big play. He doesn't do that anymore, he doesn't look downfield and he prefers to check down... When we went 13-3 it was also because we were reckless on offense. Romo is not Tom Brady (before Randy Moss), he's more like Brett Favre. He will make some bonehead throws but he will also tear some defenses apart, so you gotta take the good with the bad.
Romo is a gunslinger and he has to play as a gunslinger to be successful. Infact which one was his best play against the Broncos? The fourth down conversion to Hurd, which was a classic Romo's play. This is Romo, he's no Trent Edwards. So if we want to be explosive on offense, we need to unleash him. Yes, he will cost us some games just like in week 2, but we will win a lot more games.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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I agree with MOTH, Romo has been forced to play the captain checkdown role. Do you remember the last few seasons? We were good on offense because we were able to get big plays. This year it's completely different, it seems that we can't pass the ball to save our life. Romo must forget the Giants' game and start doing what he does best which is taking chances. During a game, a couple of years ago, Aikman said that Romo was always looking for the big play. He doesn't do that anymore, he doesn't look downfield and he prefers to check down... When we went 13-3 it was also because we were reckless on offense. Romo is not Tom Brady (before Randy Moss), he's more like Brett Favre. He will make some bonehead throws but he will also tear some defenses apart, so you gotta take the good with the bad.
Romo is a gunslinger and he has to play as a gunslinger to be successful. Infact which one was his best play against the Broncos? The fourth down conversion to Hurd, which was a classic Romo's play. This is Romo, he's no Trent Edwards. So if we want to be explosive on offense, we need to unleash him. Yes, he will cost us some games just like in week 2, but we will win a lot more games.
This is what is called a false choice. You present two extremes in order to make your point stronger but fact is ....

Look, saying being more reckless is going to help Romo or the team is asinine. But I will lay out to you and few things I have noticed that needs resolutions ..

1. OL needs to focus on opening up passing lanes. Tony has an OK arm and is short. This OL does a poor job of creating space between rushers where the WR might be on timing routes (Zampese bread and butter). It explains our inability to hit those types of routes which is shocking.

2. He has a bad grip on the ball and I am not sure if his hands are weak, small or he might need gloves to give him some girth and length. He throws some bad flutters which are usually indicative of a bd grip.

3. Step INTO throws. I amm so sick of seeing him throw off his back foot. He does it like 80% of the time and with pressure ---- his arm moves forward and body is moving backwards.

4. Any chance we can encourage him to RUN when the mental clock hits 3 seconds. All to often now he scrambles and throws these turd passes. Frankly I would be happier to see him get the first down with his feet. It actually helps him get bigger plays down field b/c if he threatens the LB they move forward and so do the safeties.

If you are football fan you also would understand that points 1/3/4 are solved with a WCO concept and play to his strengths.

I also strongly think bringing Garrett in was a huge mistake. His DNA is Dan Marino/ Troy -- classic pocket passers who could see over the OL and zip the ball into tight spots. I can not remember Garrett calling a play that moves the pocket, or a roll out, or boot leg. Everything is Tony stationary.

Sparano and Parcells made sure TR had passing lanes, moved him some and he ran when the pocket broke down. Just go back to 2006 and 2007. He got a lot of big first downs with his feet. Now -- nothing.

To me this proves the superiority of the Cowboys Staff under Parcells. The superiority of what they taught and implemented. They understood strengths as well as weaknesses and game planned around it.

This staff from Wade to Garrett are stuck with "my system" much more so. Garrett wants Tony to be Brady and Wade loves playing soft zones with lots of blitzing.

With that said, Romo is still a flake and he is 90% to blame. If he is "as smart as people say" he needs to assure his own success by molding the play book and the calls by JG.

But he is Mr Second Place and Mr Second Place is just happy with mediocrity.

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Old 10-06-2009, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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wow, I can't believe he didn't know it was 4th down....
Worse than not knowing the down no. that big-ass numeral on the marker in plain view & on the scoreboard on that 4th & goal was hurrying the throws to a wide open receiver, to both Crayton vs. the Giants & Hurd I think in Denver, in the freaking end zone. He threw it so hard it went thru their open hands.

That tells me he is overcompensating by throwing it way too hard b/c he's feeling the heat, desperate need for scoring when the clock is down to single digits, so he zips it too hard. All of which is not thinking with a clear head & cool demeanor. It's called folding under pressure, worst QB performance flaw in a Dallas QB since Danny White after 2 concussions.

That's 12 points cost the team, & that's on nobody but Romo. Are we seeing once again just exactly why he was an UDFA?

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Old 10-06-2009, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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This is what is called a false choice. You present two extremes in order to make your point stronger but fact is ....

Look, saying being more reckless is going to help Romo or the team is asinine. But I will lay out to you and few things I have noticed that needs resolutions ..

1. OL needs to focus on opening up passing lanes. Tony has an OK arm and is short. This OL does a poor job of creating space between rushers where the WR might be on timing routes (Zampese bread and butter). It explains our inability to hit those types of routes which is shocking.

2. He has a bad grip on the ball and I am not sure if his hands are weak, small or he might need gloves to give him some girth and length. He throws some bad flutters which are usually indicative of a bd grip.

3. Step INTO throws. I amm so sick of seeing him throw off his back foot. He does it like 80% of the time and with pressure ---- his arm moves forward and body is moving backwards.

4. Any chance we can encourage him to RUN when the mental clock hits 3 seconds. All to often now he scrambles and throws these turd passes. Frankly I would be happier to see him get the first down with his feet. It actually helps him get bigger plays down field b/c if he threatens the LB they move forward and so do the safeties.

If you are football fan you also would understand that points 1/3/4 are solved with a WCO concept and play to his strengths.

I also strongly think bringing Garrett in was a huge mistake. His DNA is Dan Marino/ Troy -- classic pocket passers who could see over the OL and zip the ball into tight spots. I can not remember Garrett calling a play that moves the pocket, or a roll out, or boot leg. Everything is Tony stationary.

Sparano and Parcells made sure TR had passing lanes, moved him some and he ran when the pocket broke down. Just go back to 2006 and 2007. He got a lot of big first downs with his feet. Now -- nothing.

To me this proves the superiority of the Cowboys Staff under Parcells. The superiority of what they taught and implemented. They understood strengths as well as weaknesses and game planned around it.

This staff from Wade to Garrett are stuck with "my system" much more so. Garrett wants Tony to be Brady and Wade loves playing soft zones with lots of blitzing.

With that said, Romo is still a flake and he is 90% to blame. If he is "as smart as people say" he needs to assure his own success by molding the play book and the calls by JG.

But he is Mr Second Place and Mr Second Place is just happy with mediocrity.
Good read Bob. But I haven't heard in a long time anyone calling Romo a smart QB. Asking a QB to go rogue on the playbook is pretty unrealistic. I love Parcells and his crew. Always have. Always will. But he is not without mistake either. No one is. There is no perfect coach who never gets criticized. But we got out of Parcells everything that we were going to. He's not a guy who wins. He's just a guy who turns things around. That's what he does. ...and that's what he did here. He wasn't going to take us to the next level. Up until this year, Wade actually did take the ball and ran with it pretty good. But I think we're seeing that he's not the guy either. With so many good HCs out there, there's no way Wade is our HC next year. I'm just hoping the next guy (Cowher, Shanny, Holmgren, Gruden, Billick, etc) is the right guy.

Out of curiosity if you could pick one, who would you go with?
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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My choices would be Holmgren, Shanny, Cowher, Gruden & billick in that order.

I think the most important thing is to get a guy in that will maximize Tony. That's our only hope to get back to a SB.

Also, my absolute first pick would be Fisher, but I doubt Tenn lets him go.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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I would like Gruden first and Shanny 2nd.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Good read Bob. But I haven't heard in a long time anyone calling Romo a smart QB.
I don't think I called him that but others have.

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Asking a QB to go rogue on the playbook is pretty unrealistic.
What I am saying is a Leader goes to the Coach and says "Not working" and these plays don't suit my strengths let us do this this and this.

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I love Parcells and his crew. Always have. Always will. But he is not without mistake either. No one is. There is no perfect coach who never gets criticized. But we got out of Parcells everything that we were going to. He's not a guy who wins. He's just a guy who turns things around. That's what he does.
As much as I disagreed with some of Parcells moves he is a winner and produces winners. So we strongly disagree.

But my point was his staff was much smarter (credit Duane) and if anything they we limited by Parcells himself (debit Duane)

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...and that's what he did here. He wasn't going to take us to the next level. Up until this year, Wade actually did take the ball and ran with it pretty good.
We are 12-12 since starting 2007 12-1. So, Wade is sucking mule donkey scrotum.

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But I think we're seeing that he's not the guy either. With so many good HCs out there, there's no way Wade is our HC next year. I'm just hoping the next guy (Cowher, Shanny, Holmgren, Gruden, Billick, etc) is the right guy. Out of curiosity if you could pick one, who would you go with?
Pesonally, I would only get Shanahan or Gruden IFFFFFFFFF we plan on building a 5 year plan around a 29 year old Tony Turnover. Not a Holmgren fan. Not a Billick fan. Not a Cowher fan. Seen them out coached all too often.

I would however be strongly in favor of a Fresh Face who will rip some nut sacks off even going the college route. Brian Kelley at Cin for example.
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