2010 Draft Thread

Caddy · 10-06-2009, 11:52 PM

As it unfortunately looks like we'll have a top 5 pick this year, who do you guys think we will end up with?

McCoy? Suh? Berry? someone else?

Chucky · 10-07-2009, 12:51 PM

Give me McCoy or give me death!!

Caddy · 10-07-2009, 09:25 PM

Knowing how bad we are this year, do you think we would've chosen somebody other than Josh Freeman in the hopes of getting one of the top quarterbacks of this draft?

Canadian_kid16 · 10-08-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

Knowing how bad we are this year, do you think we would've chosen somebody other than Josh Freeman in the hopes of getting one of the top quarterbacks of this draft?

We should have chosen someone different regardless of where we pick this year. Freeman won't be any good and we have too many other holes, fill up those holes with Josh Johnson at QB and if we still stink, at least we know where the issue lies.

As for this year's draft, I think DL is the top priority

bigbuc · 10-08-2009, 10:41 PM

I think we should go bigger on the DL... McCoy is great but I think we should take Suh. The guy is a monster. But still rush the passer.. We have to face two of the best backs in the league four times a year and NO can run the ball too!

Suh all the way!!!

Caddy · 10-09-2009, 02:09 AM

I agree with the D-Line sentiment as well. We desperately need extra bodies.

I honestly don't give a damn if it is at end or at tackle because both need desperate help. We produce very little pass rush, and our interior gets walked on by pretty much every offensive line.

Beans · 10-18-2009, 03:54 PM

is it possible to take suh and berry with the same pick

etk · 10-18-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc

I think we should go bigger on the DL... McCoy is great but I think we should take Suh. The guy is a monster. But still rush the passer.. We have to face two of the best backs in the league four times a year and NO can run the ball too!

Suh all the way!!!

Suh is deceiving in that regard. He really isn't the run-stopper he's made out to be.

Think about the great NTs across the league (Pat Williams, Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams, etc.). They're all massive space-eaters that can get leverage and anchor to hold their ground. Suh gets moved around very easily. He has little power/strength in his lower body and struggles to anchor against college guards that are much smaller than he is. Watch the film of him against Clemson as a Jr....he actually gets driven back more than 5 yards on one play! Now imagine how he'd fare against bigger stronger NFL linemen.

Suh is great at disengaging from blocks to make tackles in pursuit, but his inability to anchor in the run game creates holes for backs to run through. To stop the run we need DTs that push back the opposition, not the other way around.

McCoy, despite being slightly smaller than Suh, actually gets a lot more push in the run game because he can sink his hips and explode with power across the LOS. Let's also keep in mind that we drafted Roy Miller to be our NT for the future so McCoy is a + in the run game as an UT or "pass rushing DT".

DeadEagle · 10-22-2009, 10:40 PM

I think I am leaning towards Eric Berry with the top 5 pick we get..... and then addressing the DL with the 2 second-rounders and and early third-round pick.

Those who know me, know that I do like Ndamukong Suh a lot, and think he and Gerald McCoy are both going to be very good DT's in the pros. But the more tape I watch...... the more I don't want to pass up Eric Berry. And to me..... that is becoming more and more a reality when I watch the "second tier" DT's in college do well. Boo Robinson, Marvin Austin, and guys like that.

1 - Eric Berry
2a - Eric Norwood
2b - Marvin Austin
3 - Boo Robinson

Of course..... this is under the assumption that Jim Bates is the DC.... and there's a good possibility that he's not. So... that may change drastically in the next 180 or so days.

Caddy · 10-23-2009, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEagle

I think I am leaning towards Eric Berry with the top 5 pick we get..... and then addressing the DL with the 2 second-rounders and and early third-round pick.

Those who know me, know that I do like Ndamukong Suh a lot, and think he and Gerald McCoy are both going to be very good DT's in the pros. But the more tape I watch...... the more I don't want to pass up Eric Berry. And to me..... that is becoming more and more a reality when I watch the "second tier" DT's in college do well. Boo Robinson, Marvin Austin, and guys like that.

1 - Eric Berry
2a - Eric Norwood
2b - Marvin Austin
3 - Boo Robinson

Of course..... this is under the assumption that Jim Bates is the DC.... and there's a good possibility that he's not. So... that may change drastically in the next 180 or so days.

We don't own two second round picks. K2 was traded to us for a second.

DeadEagle · 10-23-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

We don't own two second round picks. K2 was traded to us for a second.

Uh...... no.

Kellen Winslow was traded for a 2009 2nd round pick and a 2010 5th round pick.

Here is a summary of our picks in the 2010 Draft, after the Gaines Adams trade:

Round 1 – Buccaneers
Round 2 – Buccaneers
Round 2 – Bears (Gaines Adams trade)
Round 3 – Buccaneers
Round 4 – Buccaneers
Round 5 – Patriots (Alex Smith trade)
Round 5 or 6 – Jaguars (conditional pick for Luke McCown - not official)
Round 6 – Buccaneers
Round 7 – Buccaneers
Round 7 – Ravens (Marques Douglas trade)

(Tampa Bay's fifth-round pick in 2010 belongs to Cleveland for the second part of the Kellen Winslow trade)

With a top 5 pick, we'll have 4 selections in the top 70. This draft is going to be very important for us. We can't afford to miss on the early picks.

Caddy · 10-23-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEagle

Uh...... no.

Kellen Winslow was traded for a 2009 2nd round pick and a 2010 5th round pick.

Here is a summary of our picks in the 2010 Draft, after the Gaines Adams trade:

Round 1 – Buccaneers
Round 2 – Buccaneers
Round 2 – Bears (Gaines Adams trade)
Round 3 – Buccaneers
Round 4 – Buccaneers
Round 5 – Patriots (Alex Smith trade)
Round 5 or 6 – Jaguars (conditional pick for Luke McCown - not official)
Round 6 – Buccaneers
Round 7 – Buccaneers
Round 7 – Ravens (Marques Douglas trade)

(Tampa Bay's fifth-round pick in 2010 belongs to Cleveland for the second part of the Kellen Winslow trade)

With a top 5 pick, we'll have 4 selections in the top 70. This draft is going to be very important for us. We can't afford to miss on the early picks.

Haha my bad.

I've been thinking we're going to lose our second round pick the last few months. That's awesome that we still have it.

DeadEagle · 10-23-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

Haha my bad.

I've been thinking we're going to lose our second round pick the last few months. That's awesome that we still have it.

It's huge..... given the talent in this draft.

And given the uncertainty surrounding the CBA, as there is a chance the next CBA is likely going to have a rookie cap similar to the NHL or NBA, there may be an extra influx of declaring juniors and redshirt sophomores than usual this year..... so they can cash in a bigger deal while they can.

So that's extra great for us..... with the extra second rounder and high 3rd. But like I said.... we can't afford to screw it up. No more Dexter Jacksons and Chris Colmers.

Caddy · 10-23-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEagle

It's huge..... given the talent in this draft.

And given the uncertainty surrounding the CBA, as there is a chance the next CBA is likely going to have a rookie cap similar to the NHL or NBA, there may be an extra influx of declaring juniors and redshirt sophomores than usual this year..... so they can cash in a bigger deal while they can.

So that's extra great for us..... with the extra second rounder and high 3rd. But like I said.... we can't afford to screw it up. No more Dexter Jacksons and Chris Colmers.

Yeah that is 100% true. We are going to have a shot at some awesome talent this year. Hopefully we pick more Davin Joseph's and Aqib Talib's than we do Dexter Jackson's and Michael Clayton's.

bigbuc · 10-23-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etk

Suh is deceiving in that regard. He really isn't the run-stopper he's made out to be.

Think about the great NTs across the league (Pat Williams, Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams, etc.). They're all massive space-eaters that can get leverage and anchor to hold their ground. Suh gets moved around very easily. He has little power/strength in his lower body and struggles to anchor against college guards that are much smaller than he is. Watch the film of him against Clemson as a Jr....he actually gets driven back more than 5 yards on one play! Now imagine how he'd fare against bigger stronger NFL linemen.

Suh is great at disengaging from blocks to make tackles in pursuit, but his inability to anchor in the run game creates holes for backs to run through. To stop the run we need DTs that push back the opposition, not the other way around.

McCoy, despite being slightly smaller than Suh, actually gets a lot more push in the run game because he can sink his hips and explode with power across the LOS. Let's also keep in mind that we drafted Roy Miller to be our NT for the future so McCoy is a + in the run game as an UT or "pass rushing DT".

Is this joke? Suh was the leading tackler for his team last year and is the leading tackler this year so far. He's a DT so where do you think all those tackles are coming? He's by far the best DT in this draft. And were not even talking about his leadership which I was reading is like Ray Lewis.

etk · 10-24-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Is this joke? Suh was the leading tackler for his team last year and is the leading tackler this year so far. He's a DT so where do you think all those tackles are coming? He's by far the best DT in this draft. And were not even talking about his leadership which I was reading is like Ray Lewis.

Those tackles come when he sheds blocks and latches onto the DTs. Why do you think he makes so many tackles while McCoy/Terrence Cody don't? It's because the great DTs hold their gap and force the RB to find a different hold.

Suh can't anchor and hold his gap. That's why I don't want him on my football team.

You obviously know very little about football if you think that tackle productivity=good lineman. Try not to state your opinions as facts when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

bigbuc · 10-24-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etk

Those tackles come when he sheds blocks and latches onto the DTs. Why do you think he makes so many tackles while McCoy/Terrence Cody don't? It's because the great DTs hold their gap and force the RB to find a different hold.

Suh can't anchor and hold his gap. That's why I don't want him on my football team.

You obviously know very little about football if you think that tackle productivity=good lineman. Try not to state your opinions as facts when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

I know some about football. Don't go acting like some head of pro scouting or something. I've seen with my two eyes Suh throw OG off of him and make tackles for a loss. Yes some of them he's running down from behind which shows the great heart that he has. You don't see a lot of DT run down plays from behind. McCoy is very good at blowing into a gap and being in the back field. I've also seen McCoy just like I've seen Suh get pushed three to four yards back off the line. There both great players, I just prefer how strong Suh is to McCoy's speed. That's all. Also can't anchor his gap? You my friend are one of very few people who see this. Suh along with McCoy have been top 5 picks going back to last year. Sure he might get blown off the ball here and again... Let me ask you this? What DT have you seen thats never got blown off the line here and again?

etk · 10-31-2009, 03:41 PM

I've never seen McCoy get blown off the ball at the snap. No 1st rounder should have that happen to him multiple times a game.

DeadEagle · 11-03-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etk

I've never seen McCoy get blown off the ball at the snap. No 1st rounder should have that happen to him multiple times a game.

I think you are misinterpreting something here, in regards to Suh and McCoy. McCoy is more active with his hands, and Suh is more powerful with his. Both guys have their warts too. Suh, at times, isn't interested in rushing the passer and will instead just hold the LOS. Maybe it's the defense called, or maybe it's Suh setting something up for later (which is smart, imo) but he does at times get bottled up that way. McCoy, has an issue with over pursuing the play. He'll make a move, but the OC or OG will then just use his own momentum to ride him out of the play. But all that can be worked on.

They do though, both have the tools to succeed. Both are extremely athletic DT's, both are very good size. Stamina is not an issue with either player. Both are smart football players, play within themselves, and within their respective defenses.

And as far as McCoy not getting blown off the ball..... watch his game against the Miami Hurricanes a few weeks back. It wasn't pretty. For as many pressures as he had, he had just as many 'taken completely out of the play' plays. That wasn't like him. etk.... he isn't as perfect a prospect as you are making him out to be.

etk · 11-06-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEagle

And as far as McCoy not getting blown off the ball..... watch his game against the Miami Hurricanes a few weeks back. It wasn't pretty. For as many pressures as he had, he had just as many 'taken completely out of the play' plays. That wasn't like him. etk.... he isn't as perfect a prospect as you are making him out to be.

I'm a Miami fan bro....I was watching the whole game. We were able to neutralize him because we made him the focal point of our blocking schemes. The rest of their line capitalized and Beal had a career game.

You can't blame McCoy for being a marked man in a good offensive gameplan.

DJC · 11-11-2009, 11:02 AM

With how many sucky teams there are this season, if we win a game or two more, we could be looking at picking in the 4-10 range now. What are some 2nd tier prospects you guys like?

I think Dez Bryant becomes a real possibility now, and the most likely target after Berry/Suh/McCoy. Mays is probably up there, which scares me some. I wouldn't mind picking up Haden if we're closer to #10. Not much else though that really fits a need in that area though. Maybe a DE emerges as a top 10 pick by the time the draft comes around.

bigbuc · 11-11-2009, 05:55 PM

Anyone but Dunlap!!! I like Haden, Morgan, Bryant, Griffen, Hughes. With the dark horse being CJ Spiller. Thats if we pick 10ish. Team him up with ward cause Caddy is a free agent. Think if we pick anywhere after 5 we have to go with whatever DE grades out the best. One of those D ends I put down will be a top ten pick. Its the one that runs in the 4.5 to 4.7. I myself love Hughes and think is he runs a 4.6 that he will be a very high pick.

etk · 11-12-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJC

With how many sucky teams there are this season, if we win a game or two more, we could be looking at picking in the 4-10 range now. What are some 2nd tier prospects you guys like?

I think Dez Bryant becomes a real possibility now, and the most likely target after Berry/Suh/McCoy. Mays is probably up there, which scares me some. I wouldn't mind picking up Haden if we're closer to #10. Not much else though that really fits a need in that area though. Maybe a DE emerges as a top 10 pick by the time the draft comes around.

McCoy, Berry or bust....sorry. We gotta keep losing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Anyone but Dunlap!!! I like Haden, Morgan, Bryant, Griffen, Hughes. With the dark horse being CJ Spiller. Thats if we pick 10ish. Team him up with ward cause Caddy is a free agent. Think if we pick anywhere after 5 we have to go with whatever DE grades out the best. One of those D ends I put down will be a top ten pick. Its the one that runs in the 4.5 to 4.7. I myself love Hughes and think is he runs a 4.6 that he will be a very high pick.

Haden is overrated. He's not a top-15 athlete for the position. He's really stiff and benefits from playing from UFs DL and safeties. He'd get roasted on our defense.

Morgan is a beast. Not elite like McCoy/Berry but very solid.

Bryant is very talented. His attitude and antics turn me off. We've had enough divas like Keyshawn, Galloway, Bryant, Clayton. I want Golden Tate because he's a competitor. Dez Bryant is boom/bust.

Griffen is incomplete at this point. I need to see more of him.

Hughes is not a top-20 talent. He can run the arc, but that's it. Selvie is better imo.

CJ Spiller is a huge no. We have major holes and you want another RB? jeez.

bigbuc · 11-12-2009, 08:19 PM

How is taking Cj a big no no. I understand that we need to draft for D but the person asked if we pick around ten what players would you like. How is taking a player that could take it to the house on any play a bad move? I know he's a running back, but it's just like three years ago. We passed on AP because we had Caddy and took Adams. If Cj is the best player when we pick. Take him we have drafted one pro bowler in the last 7 years. So I don't care where he plays as long as he's a very good player.

bigbuc · 11-12-2009, 08:44 PM

Not saying cj will be AP don't take the the wrong way. Just saying if he's anything like Chris Johnson from Tenn then you take him and make room on your team that's all.