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Old 10-16-2009, 09:26 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
Yeah Jared Allen had the shittiest of D Line's ever and did something. Gaines has NO MOTOR. It doesn't seem he wants ot be out there. I don't care who the **** is on your team, if YOU don't try thats on you.
in some cases, being the only true pass rusher on your dline actually inflates your stats bc no one is stealing sacks from you.

I just never saw it with Adams. What makes ppl think he has a higher ceiling than any 2nd round pass rusher that couldve been had in the draft?

Was it his blazing 4.8 speed? *sarcasm*

Was it his relentlessness against the run? *sarcasm*

Was it his sick arsenal of pass rush moves? *sarcasm*

Just looking back at this last draft for example and the 2nd round DEs that came out of it, I think Id take every single one of them over Adams.

Brown, Sintim, Barwin, Kruger. Id take all of them over Adams right now.

i had to throw in the sarcasms in case ppl actually thought he possessed all those traits.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Gaines AdamsDefensive Lineman7/26/2007: Signed a six-year, $42 million contract. The deal includes $18.56 million guaranteed. Another $4 million is available through incentives. 2009: $900,000, 2010: $1.08 million, 2011: $1.1 million, 2012: $1.15 million, 2013: Free Agent

Man youre right.

Not sure how were gonna manage that big $1.15 mil come 2012....
There is a lot of unaccounted for money there... Like 20 mil worth.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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124 tackles 13.5 sacks 13 passes deffended 2 ints(1 td) 2 ff 1 fr since 07
Thats pretty damn good.

4th overall production, no. But hey, pretty solid out of a 2nd rounder.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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124 tackles 13.5 sacks 13 passes deffended 2 ints(1 td) 2 ff 1 fr since 07
Thats pretty damn good.

4th overall production, no. But hey, pretty solid out of a 2nd rounder.
86 tackles
10 pd's is what I'm comming up with. It's OK for a 2nd rounder...that is not making 20 mil or so over the next 3-4 years.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city
Why does everyone keep mentioning AP?
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Why does everyone keep mentioning AP?
I don't know, people mention Sam Bowie sometimes too.

Last edited by CC.SD : 10-16-2009 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city
I think Adams and Levi Brown are both examples of how sometimes drafting for need can bite you in the butt if the player in said need is a considerably lower grade than the BPA available to you at that position.

2 reaches that bit each team in the butt.

I always figured, if you have a top 10 pick, chances are you should go BPA anyway bc you have more than 1 need. Thats not always the case, but most of the time it is.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't know, people mention Sam Bowie sometimes too.
When the Viking win 6 championships then bring up AP.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city
Better than taking Mike Williams over Ware and Shawne Merriman and then trading him with Josh McCown for a 4th rounder two years later.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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No this isn't a Snyder type move. Synder doesn't trade for young players, he trades for old players. We traded a 2nd for Jason Taylor, a 2nd and 5th for TJ Duckett, this isn't a horrible trade. Trading for young talent isn't much different than drafting.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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When the Viking win 6 championships then bring up AP.
He was talking about Charles Barkley.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Better than taking Mike Williams over Ware and Shawne Merriman and then trading him with Josh McCown for a 4th rounder two years later.
That's true but big mistakes are magnified much more at the top of the draft. And honestly that's not even the Lions worst decision in recent years.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I think Adams and Levi Brown are both examples of how sometimes drafting for need can bite you in the butt if the player in said need is a considerably lower grade than the BPA available to you at that position.

2 reaches that bit each team in the butt.

I always figured, if you have a top 10 pick, chances are you should go BPA anyway bc you have more than 1 need. Thats not always the case, but most of the time it is.
Those are definitely good examples. Although with OTs such as Levi Brown and Joe Thomas (possibly the last time I'll ever put these two in the same sentence) have to be considered investments for the future and the production you see out of them is measured by the general performance of their offense, and more particularly the O-line and it's ability to impose it's will on a game.

Most other position players are easier to put up against the dynamic players drafted around them, like say Gaines Adams and AD.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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This is so surprising, at first I want to think it was a nice aggressive move by Chicago, but seriously, who drafts a guy top 5 and in a few years trades him for a 2nd rounder? It's painfully obvious he was a bust for them to consider this move, so it's a risk that he turns into the talent that made him a top pick.


I really hope a 4-3 team steps up and makes this type of deal for Dorsey, I love him as a 2nd round pick to a 4-3 team because I feel like the system is holding him back more so then talent or motor.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Dumping Adams eats up $15 million in cap space for the Bucs
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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This is a classic Dan Snyder move, but no Dan Snyder!
dan snyder trades picks for hasbeens

gaines adams is a never was
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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dan snyder trades picks for hasbeens

gaines adams is a never was
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364444
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Gaines Adams' signing bonus was super-frontloaded, so everyone talking about the Bucs unloading a huge contract are uninformed. He made almost $25 million in his first two years, and this year, the Bucs take a $11 million cap hit for trading him.

The Bears are on the hook for exactly jack and **** salary-wise (about a million each year for the life of the contract). If Gaines Adams were to re-enter the draft, I'd feel fine about risking a second rounder on the chance that Rod Marinelli can make him a superstar.

Even if the guy puts up 6 sacks a year forever, he's an upgrade on our right side. If he improves a little, he's an upgrade over our left side, too.

I'm 100% fine with the deal. We were going to use that pick on a DE next year, anyway. Now we should ship off a 4th rounder for TO.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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cant imagine that this is a good move for the bucs. unless i dont know some inside information with turmoil in the locker room or something, i think the bears are getting a steal. gaines adams is a hell of a talent, maybe he just needed a change of scenary. looks like the bucs went backwards.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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cant imagine that this is a good move for the bucs. unless i dont know some inside information with turmoil in the locker room or something, i think the bears are getting a steal. gaines adams is a hell of a talent, maybe he just needed a change of scenary. looks like the bucs went backwards.
What makes adams a hell of a talent? His unspectacular explosiveness, his inability to play the run, his limited pass rush arsenal?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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i am not a bucs fan, havent seen gaines adams play more than once or twice, i just assume that you have to have an exceptional amount of talent to be drafted 4th overall. maybe im wrong, but i feel as though it is an accurate assumption.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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i just watched some gaines adams highlights and read up on him a bit. i take back everything i said and am embarassed for defending him. he is a bust. good move by the bucs to swallow their pride and cut their losses while adams still has some value.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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There hasn't much that was going to surprise me to get me to want to post ... including those ridiculous rumors on TO. I am pleasantly surprised, shocked and happy with the trade. I'm not sure what to make of it for the short term, other than awesome DL wave off the dge, but it actually answers a question I had about this upcoming offseason as the Bears had to find a younger DE to anchor the DL with.

Very fascinated with the trade, but that does leave the Bears shorthanded for next year's draft. That said, franchise QB and hopefully a stud DE under Rod's tutelage would be well worth it. If all goes well, that leaves our biggest needs for next year looking for a bigger WR, maybe a number 2 back, maybe a backup TE (although here's hoping Kellen Davis develops), maybe a young depth LB, and DB help. Not exactly needs that demand early picks.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CC.SD View Post
Those are definitely good examples. Although with OTs such as Levi Brown and Joe Thomas (possibly the last time I'll ever put these two in the same sentence) have to be considered investments for the future and the production you see out of them is measured by the general performance of their offense, and more particularly the O-line and it's ability to impose it's will on a game.

Most other position players are easier to put up against the dynamic players drafted around them, like say Gaines Adams and AD.
The Brown aren't regretting drafting Joe Thomas. And what's funny about this is that Wisenhunt would have drafted Brown even if Thomas was still on the board.
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