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Old 10-31-2009, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I know tons of Eagles fans (unfortunately), and yeah, the calling for McNabb to get benched happens quite often.

The most popular man in Philly has always been McNabb's backup qb. Detmer, Garcia, Kolb, they all get a ton of love.

The second McNabb hopskips a pass at a WR's feet, the majority of the Philly faithful start booing and cussing.

Its 1 of the million reasons why I hate Philly with a passion.
It's insane McNabb might not be perfect, but he is one of the best QBs in the league.

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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I agree, I don't think Fisher likes playing with an unorthodox QB even though VY produced an 18 -11 record as his starter. However, the fact that he perfers to stick with Collins and lose every game isn't a strong point in favour of Fisher IMO. Maybe Fisher should be replaced by a HC who can get the most out of VY's talent and not worry about making him into something he's not.
I dunno, part of me thinks fisher would try the change to light a fire under his team's ass and to try and kick start something. At the end of the day Collins isn't a more effective passer any more (most likely) so you might as well go with the guy who can at least make something happen with his legs and has the higher upside.

I'm still a young supporter and I like his chances of putting points on the board more than I like Collins'.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
I don't think it was an overreaction to one bowl game. If you take away the actual meaning of the game(Rose Bowl vs. Nat. Champ game), his bowl game before that was probably even more impressive, although not from a pro prospect standpoint.

Plus, he deserved the Heisman that year. Reggie was great and it's a close call, but Vince Young was definitely the best player in college football that year.

As for high ceiling, yeah you're on the dot there. To his credit though, he had matured as a passer over his career at Texas to the point where he was the most efficient passer his junior year. Obviously, I doubt many people in the league thought that would make him Peyton Manning in the pros or anything, but an above average passer with the scrambling ability of Vince Young is certainly enough to salivate at. He was high-risk, high-reward, and unfortunately, the high-risk side won out.


This was a great post. Puts it in perspective instead of looking at it in hindsight. He had arguably a more impressive performance vs Michigan the year before then he did vs USC, and he had some pretty incredible games in between like vs OK State so I really don't think the Nat Champ overreaction was really a factor.


He was showing he could improve as a passer enough to be efficient, won the big games, proved he was a leader, performed in the clutch(all things that if Pryor develops he will be a top 10 pick as well regardless of if he pans out).


If he ends up being a bust everyone looks at his negatives and says that's why, which maybe it was, but it's not like he wasn't justified being a top pick and a good prospect. That's why they use the term high risk high reward for players like him, but Cutler was the [right[/i] pick for them in all honestly and I doubt he was up for consideration with that pick.


I still think VY can be a starting QB in the league if he can regain his confidence back, he came out and had a pretty good rookie season with no weapons around like him like CJ, Britt, and Nate Washington...He'd probably be better suited on another team that put him in an offense that suited his strengths, but I think he can still be a good starter and could still end up the better QB then Leinart.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by the decider13 View Post
Wildcat really doesn't make sense for Vince. Option play yes, but wildcat no. They drafted him to be a regular QB, they are gonna play him as a regular QB. He always has a lot of runs without having a gimmick offense. He'll run when he feels that is his best chance for yardage.
The problem with this is he can not thorw the ball accuraly enough to run this system
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand how using your starting QB could ever be considered a wildcat offense.
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
I don't understand how using your starting QB could ever be considered a wildcat offense.
I don't understand the point in running it with him under centre if he's starting the whole game. They need to use some creativity, screens, dump offs, designed boot legs. He's not a standard drop back passer in every sense of the word, so don't design 30 plays for him to take 3/5/7 step drops, design 10 and mix the others up with screens and play action etc to limit the heat in his face.

He should be catered to like a rookie, or a backup QB starting in place of a real QB. He could be effective but I always thought he was a 3-5 year project before he could be a dominant force. He's in his 3rd year, so now he needs to show at least something other than what he's given so far.
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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Young will have a terrible game with two interceptions and the Titans will lose by double-digits, but he will throw one long 50+ yard TD when one of our crappy safeties whiffs on a play-action leaving Justin Gage wide open (and Vince Young will have 10 seconds to throw, giving him more than enough time to notice this).

Despite the loss and the interceptions, the TD pass will have the ESPN idiots right back on his jockstrap.
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Three words:

Just. Wins. Games.
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Three words:

Just. Wins. Games.
Besides the win, his stat line looked good. I didn't catch the game, did he really play that well?
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
I don't understand how using your starting QB could ever be considered a wildcat offense.
If i'm not mistaken, the "Wildcat" offense is when you have guys motioning from the slot and then having the option read play with the QB. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have someone other than the QB playing the position, it just so happens that most of the time, it's more efficient with a RB.

Corch Irvin Myers ran it a lot with Tebow and Percy Harvin and it was beautiful.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
If i'm not mistaken, the "Wildcat" offense is when you have guys motioning from the slot and then having the option read play with the QB. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have someone other than the QB playing the position, it just so happens that most of the time, it's more efficient with a RB.

Corch Irvin Myers ran it a lot with Tebow and Percy Harvin and it was beautiful.
I always thought that was just a spread option play and wildcat was a specific formation where a RB/WR or whatever takes the snap. I dunno, I think we need an authority on the subject.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
I always thought that was just a spread option play and wildcat was a specific formation where a RB/WR or whatever takes the snap. I dunno, I think we need an authority on the subject.
A lot of what teams are doing now is just a pure option read out of the shotgun. Texas rode that offense all the way to a NC. WV did that, along with many many other college programs. What the Dolphins run is NOT the same as what most other teams in the NFL are running.

Most of the time Ricky Williams is coming in motion and Ronnie Brown has the option.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Lots of designed QB runs today. Even had CJ and LenDale in the backfield with him at one point with some misdirection. Gotta wonder if the threat of VY running helped open things up for CJ's 200+ yards rushing.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Three words:

Just. Wins. Games.
Two words:

It's Jacksonville.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Young will have a terrible game with two interceptions and the Titans will lose by double-digits, but he will throw one long 50+ yard TD when one of our crappy safeties whiffs on a play-action leaving Justin Gage wide open (and Vince Young will have 10 seconds to throw, giving him more than enough time to notice this).

Despite the loss and the interceptions, the TD pass will have the ESPN idiots right back on his jockstrap.
Not quite.


Also, I hardly noticed anyone from ESPN all over his jock, all I hear from most ESPN analyst are that he cannot play the QB position, and if it's not all of them there is a large number of them. Hardly get how you think someone would be "back on" his jockstrap if that were to even happen, he hardly gets love like you make it seem.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Looks like I was half right at least, his presence would help motivate more than anything else.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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What, you guys don't think VY is the best thing eva to play this game. Hell, I do, even the great StarHeather thought VY was going to be the greatest QB ever to play the position. I mean he has everything. ESPN hype, big game experience, great accuracy, outstanding athleticism.........hahaha sorry, but I can't keep the joke going.


Young is horrible, and Fisher knows the bottom will fall out again, he didn't do anything today that would make anyone believe that he was the reason why they won. Johnson was ballin today, and the defense beat up on a horrific Jag offense that almost lost to the horrid Rams.....Young is NFL garbage and is a lock to be cut at the end of the year because no franchise would dare take a $14 million cap hit on a scrub like that. If they do, then they deserve what they get and thats being terribad.

Anyway, in todays game the Jags apparently forget to stack the box and make Young beat them with his arm.


But the ESPN pundits will of course say that Young should have gone to the Texans and that Mario is a bust and that Reggie Bush is God's gift to the football world....wait.....is it 2006 again?
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
If i'm not mistaken, the "Wildcat" offense is when you have guys motioning from the slot and then having the option read play with the QB. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have someone other than the QB playing the position, it just so happens that most of the time, it's more efficient with a RB.

Corch Irvin Myers ran it a lot with Tebow and Percy Harvin and it was beautiful.
Do you intentionally call coach Urban Meyer "corch Irvin Myers"? Or is that just a crazy fail post?
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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What, you guys don't think VY is the best thing eva to play this game. Hell, I do, even the great StarHeather thought VY was going to be the greatest QB ever to play the position. I mean he has everything. ESPN hype, big game experience, great accuracy, outstanding athleticism.........hahaha sorry, but I can't keep the joke going.


Young is horrible, and Fisher knows the bottom will fall out again, he didn't do anything today that would make anyone believe that he was the reason why they won. Johnson was ballin today, and the defense beat up on a horrific Jag offense that almost lost to the horrid Rams.....Young is NFL garbage and is a lock to be cut at the end of the year because no franchise would dare take a $14 million cap hit on a scrub like that. If they do, then they deserve what they get and thats being terribad.

Anyway, in todays game the Jags apparently forget to stack the box and make Young beat them with his arm.


But the ESPN pundits will of course say that Young should have gone to the Texans and that Mario is a bust and that Reggie Bush is God's gift to the football world....wait.....is it 2006 again?
I was wondering when you'd get your Williams plug in.

No one calling VY a Pro Bowler. But, Kerry Collins led the Titans to a 17-37 beat down in Jacksonville. Vince Young led the Titans to a 30-13 win in Tennessee, and helped win them their first game of the season.

You have a bias against Young for the bashing the Texans took for taking Williams ahead of him, but if you don't think Young helped win them the game today, then you're either blind or ignorant.

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Do you intentionally call coach Urban Meyer "corch Irvin Myers"? Or is that just a crazy fail post?
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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he hardly gets love like you make it seem.
I believe he might be talking about how ESPN acted prior to his 2nd & 3rd seasons.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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She's my representative.

****** up, I know.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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What, you guys don't think VY is the best thing eva to play this game. Hell, I do, even the great StarHeather thought VY was going to be the greatest QB ever to play the position. I mean he has everything. ESPN hype, big game experience, great accuracy, outstanding athleticism.........hahaha sorry, but I can't keep the joke going.


Young is horrible, and Fisher knows the bottom will fall out again, he didn't do anything today that would make anyone believe that he was the reason why they won. Johnson was ballin today, and the defense beat up on a horrific Jag offense that almost lost to the horrid Rams.....Young is NFL garbage and is a lock to be cut at the end of the year because no franchise would dare take a $14 million cap hit on a scrub like that. If they do, then they deserve what they get and thats being terribad.

Anyway, in todays game the Jags apparently forget to stack the box and make Young beat them with his arm.


But the ESPN pundits will of course say that Young should have gone to the Texans and that Mario is a bust and that Reggie Bush is God's gift to the football world....wait.....is it 2006 again?
You know what would be cool though, if he was dropped and then got picked up by someone like the Colts, or the Patriots or really any team with a quarterback with three or four years left in them and a coaching staff unlikely to go anywhere quickly.

Break him down, rework his mechanics and throwing and see if he can be taught to read an offense.

Yes he failed in tennessee imo, and yes he's not likely to be the starting QB in tennessee next year, but if he's released and if he can be had at a low salary. Put him at third QB, stash him somewhere and try to grow him on a slow, easy time table and then see what he becomes.

It's probably just a pipe dream, but it would be interesting to see what he could become if he was given an Aaron Rogers type development.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm done hating Vince Young. I'll hate him like any other division player - with mild contempt. I have mild contempt for Chris Johnson but I respect the hell out of him. Why have I hated Vince Young so much? It's because of his hype. But that's not his fault. The objective-NFL-fan side of me would like to see him develop into that guy who wowed everyone in the Rose Bowl. That's basically the reason why everyone overreacted towards his rookie year. He also has been through a lot, so a little success is good for the liking-human-beings side of me.

That being said, I still must be objective. Vince Young had a good game, but his future is still very much an open question. He was supported by his amazing running back and his defense playing a non-contending team. I'd like to see what he can do against other opponents.
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Old 11-01-2009, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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On FOX today, they said Vince Young gets the playcall wrong 5-7 i think it was, times per game. So he'll call a play for the receivers that doesn't fit with the call for the linemen. Not a good thing. But he did play well today.
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Old 11-01-2009, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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All I know is VY led the Titans to a 'W' in a blowout. For some reason even the D played better with Young starting.

The kid has intangibles, and obviously the Titans play better with him behind center.
Is he really any worse than Steve McNair was in his 3rd year?? I think if VY had played since the beginning of the season, the Titans would not be 1-7.

It's all about the 'W's - not passer rating, TD/INT ratio, or overall passing yards.
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Old 11-01-2009, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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All I know is VY led the Titans to a 'W' in a blowout. For some reason even the D played better with Young starting.

The kid has intangibles, and obviously the Titans play better with him behind center.
Is he really any worse than Steve McNair was in his 3rd year?? I think if VY had played since the beginning of the season, the Titans would not be 1-7.

It's all about the 'W's - not passer rating, TD/INT ratio, or overall passing yards.
OH NO

The dreaded "VY just wins games" arguement.
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