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Old 02-25-2011, 01:18 PM    (permalink
LTgiants
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Ehh not a huge Jefferies fan would rather try and get a center who can start over Turiaf.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
What's the deal with Tony Douglas? I don't watch the NBA, but I keep hearing that the Knicks need a back up point guard. I know everyone was excited about Douglas when he was drafted. Just hasn't lived up to it?
He's a natural 2 and was kinda forced into the backup PG role.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I don't mind Jeffries, tbh. He was a really good defender for us and could give some quality minutes.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Ehh not a huge Jefferies fan would rather try and get a center who can start over Turiaf.
There are none available though. There is literally no way to acquire such a player at this point.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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There are none available though. There is literally no way to acquire such a player at this point.
Earl Barron is a better option then Jeffries and I would rather take my chances with him then Jeffries.

I would also rather wait and see if the vanilla gorilla Joel Pryzbilla gets bought out from Charlotte and take a run at him then bring in Jeffries who D'antoni is just going to make guard PG's while he is on the court.
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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You were depressed before the Derron trade even went down. I don't get it, now is the best time to be a Knicks fan in over 10 years and now you're depressed and want to ignore basketball again?

Let's be real, you just miss Gallo.
I was disappointed for us blowing our leverage, the Deron trade made me depressed, they got a better deal for a better player, at least a more valuable one since, you know, he wasn't a pending free agent who had made his desire for NYC clear, although I do think Deron's the most valuable PG in the league and has the most to offer any team moving forward, although I do still have hope for Rubio once he's finally free from Minny...

Of course I do miss Gallo to, but I missed him before the Deron trade and will continue to miss him until he comes back to NYC when he's eligible for FA.

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Let's all hope Fields works on his jump shot this offseason. He's our last movable asset.

We need him to boost his stock as much as possible.
I trust he will, he leads the NBA in 4th quarter 3pt %, so he's already good a good sense for when to shoot and when not to, and he's not a terrible 3pt shooter to begin with. With how hard this kid works I trust him to work on his 3ball and defense, he should study how Gallo used his length to beat guys to positions on the court even when he lacked the lateral quickness since that is Fields' biggest issue on D, he's just not shifty enough to play keep up on D and needs to learn how to use his length and strength advantage to anticipate guys and bully them away from where they want to go.

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It's going to be Paul in the end. I don't know how but I'd bet a good amount of money he'll get here eventually.
I agree with you, I just think that the way it'll happen will be Paul taking a smaller contract...because his injuries start becoming a serious drain on his impact, not quite Roy levels, but to the point where he's like Shaq, guaranteed to miss 10-20 games a year and you never know when he'll become the next Roy. That's the thing that troubles me the most, we're really banking on turning Amare, Paul and Melo into a championship team, even though that's a team that's very iffy. I've loved Chris Paul for a long time, but with his knee problems as well as the questions about Amar'e's knees I just am still too traumatized from what happened to McDyess and H2O. Maybe Donnie can pull a rabbit out of his ass and trade our second round pick for the rights to Ricky Rubio...but without re-stocking our bevy of young talent I just don't see us having the depth to win a ring, but given that we should be an ECF caliber team from now on we're unlikely to have the chance to find that young 4th star without getting really lucky...again...

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Ehh not a huge Jefferies fan would rather try and get a center who can start over Turiaf.
I like the Jeffries move, he's instantly our best perimeter defender and even though he can't shoot he gets out of the way on offense and keeps the ball moving. Plus I'd really hope Fields pays a lot of attention to how Jeffries uses his length on D against smaller, quicker players.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 02-25-2011 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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... I can't believe we lost to the Cavs. New team or not, that's atrocious. Our bench is really really bad.

Meh, just dissappointing. It was fun watching Melo dominate in the first half but he really cooled off in the second half. Billups was having his way with the refs tonight though which was nice to see. He could be a really good player for the next year and a half.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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Forenci think of it this way, LA lost to the Cavs. lol

It is dissapointing though but like I said, defense and other contribution will be the main things.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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I like the Jeffries move, he's instantly our best perimeter defender and even though he can't shoot he gets out of the way on offense and keeps the ball moving. Plus I'd really hope Fields pays a lot of attention to how Jeffries uses his length on D against smaller, quicker players.
Our biggest problem is post defense not perimeter defense. Jeffries doesn't help with that and his perimeter defense is not that good either he is not any good unless he is guarding someone with a obvious flaw in their game like Rondo with his no jumper.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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We got killed on the boards as well. We really need some size.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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Size will be the issue all season. We're going to get killed on rebounds all season, it is what it is.

I wouldn't overreact to this game. They're still gelling, they haven't even practiced the full offense yet. And they're probably looking forward to the Heat on Sunday.

The obvious negatives were rebounding and interior defense. Rebounding is a size issue, the interior defense is a coaching issue. We are great at blocking shots, but far too often we let guys penetrate so we can go for the block. That's bad coaching.

One positive is, I think we underestimated Billups a bit. Maybe he's going to be better than we thought.

Isola made a note of this, Amare and Melo are -21 (the exact # could be a lil off) when on the floor together through 2 games. That's an obvious chemistry issue.

What I love about getting Melo, and I've stated this before, now we can rest Stat for a long stretch without losing so much offensively, and vice versa. That was huge for this team, prior to having Melo we'd have to play Stat far too many minutes. Now we don't have to do that anymore bc we have 2 stud scorers.

But yeah, our needs remain the same. We need size and we need a backup PG in the worst way.

I didn't realize we have a 2011 first round pick? I guess we can address Center or backup PG with that pick. Then get a mid level guy to address the other need this offseason.

This season is a wash. That's fine, you gotta think long term.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Our biggest problem is post defense not perimeter defense. Jeffries doesn't help with that and his perimeter defense is not that good either he is not any good unless he is guarding someone with a obvious flaw in their game like Rondo with his no jumper.
But our perimeter D without Gallo is now pretty bad to, Dougie gambles a lot which makes him annoying but also easy to blow by if he guess wrong, which happens quite often. Fields just doesn't know how to use his length and strength to keep smaller and shiftier guys in front of him, kinda like Wilson Chandler when he's on the perimeter, and Melo doesn't play D often enough for his ability to play good D to matter. Plus Jeffries does a very good job of anticipating guys and using his length to beat them to spots, I think Gallo learned a lot from him in Jeffries last run with this team and I hope Landry Fields can do the same this time.

As for this game I wouldn't worry too badly, we've got 2 ball stoppers and not that many quality offensive players around them, we're going to struggle to find chemistry and there will be a lot of nights where teams just let Melo or Amar'e shoot their way out of a rhythm leaving us with **** all to try and score, it's what happens when you have no depth of quality offensive players you become to reliant on your "stars" to carry you every minute of every game, especially since we don't ahve a guy like Gallo who would be a complimentary piece most of the time but has the ability and balls to take over when needed. I mean outside of Amar'e Gallo was the only guy we had who you could give the ball against good halfcourt D and safely expect to get you points. With no one capable of stepping up from their role player role into a game-taker-overer when Melo/Amar'e aren't clicking on all cylinders.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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Seriously...enough of Gallo.

He wasn't even that good of a perimeter defender. He hustled hard, but he wasn't exactly Bruce Bowen.

I'm so glad we flushed that turd down the toilet.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Seriously...enough of Gallo.

He wasn't even that good of a perimeter defender. He hustled hard, but he wasn't exactly Bruce Bowen.

I'm so glad we flushed that turd down the toilet.
And yet Gallo's forced elite players like LeBron, Durant and Melo into inefficient games where they have to work really hard for their points. He's not Bruce Bowen, but the way Gallo has learned to use his length and anticipation on D is remarkable for a 22 year old, there's a reason he's one of the league leaders for charges taken, and it's not because he's a flopper. Gallo was clearly our best perimeter defender and without him we don't have anyone who's going to make top wings work hard for their points, which is all you can really ask for with these rules, even Bruce Bowen wouldn't be the player he was if he was starting his prime right now.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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And yet Gallo's forced elite players like LeBron, Durant and Melo into inefficient games where they have to work really hard for their points. He's not Bruce Bowen, but the way Gallo has learned to use his length and anticipation on D is remarkable for a 22 year old, there's a reason he's one of the league leaders for charges taken, and it's not because he's a flopper. Gallo was clearly our best perimeter defender and without him we don't have anyone who's going to make top wings work hard for their points, which is all you can really ask for with these rules, even Bruce Bowen wouldn't be the player he was if he was starting his prime right now.
You need to get over him. He's gone and he's not coming back bro. I know you loved the guy, and I feel bad bc I know you're a true Knicks fan, but you gotta let it go.

He wasn't that great. He was solid, but you're glamorizing a guy who was nothing more than a solid player.
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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You need to get over him. He's gone and he's not coming back bro. I know you loved the guy, and I feel bad bc I know you're a true Knicks fan, but you gotta let it go.

He wasn't that great. He was solid, but you're glamorizing a guy who was nothing more than a solid player.
He's still a kid, I know he was too inconsistent, and this year his shot was clearly off, but in the 2 years worth of games he's played for the knicks he's shown me more star potential than any homegrown knick I've watched since Ewing. I'm never going to be over him since I think the kid will become a Manu caliber player, even though I know he'll never be a knick again I'm still going to root for the guy, the same way I rooted for spree and the KG t'wolves. Plus despite the inconsistencies he was our best perimeter defender, a guy who consistently could bother the toughest assignment on the perimeter and who was the only guy on this team other than Amar'e I trusted to score against good half court D.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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You need to get over him. He's gone and he's not coming back bro. I know you loved the guy, and I feel bad bc I know you're a true Knicks fan, but you gotta let it go.

He wasn't that great. He was solid, but you're glamorizing a guy who was nothing more than a solid player.
I don't think anyone needs to "get over him." I'm still rooting for him big time. Watching him drop 30 on the Trailblazers last night was pretty fun to see.

I think if you're a Knicks fan like Rose, one who actually watched the team during the Isiah years and the past two years, you would be pretty attached to Gallo as well, considering he was the lone bright spot after almost a decade of complete ****.

That's part of why I don't understand why you disliked him, BBD. How can you call a guy who hustles and tries and plays well a bum? That was the thing that kind of pissed me off when you'd do that. Eddy Curry? Now that's a bum.

Gallo will be pretty damn good for the Nuggets. He's on a team that will actually look to get him the ball and create instead of just make sit at the three point line.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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But our perimeter D without Gallo is now pretty bad to, Dougie gambles a lot which makes him annoying but also easy to blow by if he guess wrong, which happens quite often. Fields just doesn't know how to use his length and strength to keep smaller and shiftier guys in front of him, kinda like Wilson Chandler when he's on the perimeter, and Melo doesn't play D often enough for his ability to play good D to matter. Plus Jeffries does a very good job of anticipating guys and using his length to beat them to spots, I think Gallo learned a lot from him in Jeffries last run with this team and I hope Landry Fields can do the same this time.

As for this game I wouldn't worry too badly, we've got 2 ball stoppers and not that many quality offensive players around them, we're going to struggle to find chemistry and there will be a lot of nights where teams just let Melo or Amar'e shoot their way out of a rhythm leaving us with **** all to try and score, it's what happens when you have no depth of quality offensive players you become to reliant on your "stars" to carry you every minute of every game, especially since we don't ahve a guy like Gallo who would be a complimentary piece most of the time but has the ability and balls to take over when needed. I mean outside of Amar'e Gallo was the only guy we had who you could give the ball against good halfcourt D and safely expect to get you points. With no one capable of stepping up from their role player role into a game-taker-overer when Melo/Amar'e aren't clicking on all cylinders.
Look you are over rating Jeffries perimeter D like crazy. He gets blown by just like Douglas but unlike Douglas he isn't going for the ball he just gets beat and even with his length he is still gets beaten by guys with speed like Chandler and Fields.

So what is the point? We are not getting beat on the perimeter we are getting beat in the post. We are getting beat to rebounds on both sides cause we have nobody who rebounds even when the other team actually misses a shot. Jeffries does not help in any of the aspects we need help with right now.

We don't need to waste a roster spot on Jeffries when you got Corey Brewer and Balkman who can play the role of a perimeter defender. You need to sign two guys who can play center.

If our two ball stoppers as you call them can make quicker decisions our offense would be better cause when they just sit there trying to decide there is usually a player open for either a better shot and would result in more ball movement. Either you need to move the ball more or adopt to a more iso system cause this half and half thing right now is not wrong.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Corey Brewer sucks balls. I'd certainly bring in Jeffries. We need someone who can play defense off the bench and Jeffries can do that. You must not remember last year LT when he was our best defender and we were actually winning some games with him in the lineup.

At this point what does it actually matter? We need depth and defense. Minds well give it a shot. It's not like we're bringing him in on a 4 year deal.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Did we ever track down that throwback Amare jersey BBD was looking for? I think I might purchase one as well.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Corey Brewer sucks balls. I'd certainly bring in Jeffries. We need someone who can play defense off the bench and Jeffries can do that. You must not remember last year LT when he was our best defender and we were actually winning some games with him in the lineup.

At this point what does it actually matter? We need depth and defense. Minds well give it a shot. It's not like we're bringing him in on a 4 year deal.
I will take my chances with Corey Brewer then Jeffries. They both suck but I would rather have the 24 year old one then the near 30 year old bum.

I do remember last year Forenci and he still sucked he was not the reason we won anything. Being the best defender on awful defensive team is not impressive.

Cause we need centers and PF's not a guy who guards PG's.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Well if you can show me a guy who can do that I'll be all for getting them instead of Jeffries. Until then we could use a guy who can guard a wing because Melo and company obviously can't.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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They cant guard the post either so at least you should have someone who can protect the paint after they blow past Jeffries.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone needs to "get over him." I'm still rooting for him big time. Watching him drop 30 on the Trailblazers last night was pretty fun to see.

I think if you're a Knicks fan like Rose, one who actually watched the team during the Isiah years and the past two years, you would be pretty attached to Gallo as well, considering he was the lone bright spot after almost a decade of complete ****.

That's part of why I don't understand why you disliked him, BBD. How can you call a guy who hustles and tries and plays well a bum? That was the thing that kind of pissed me off when you'd do that. Eddy Curry? Now that's a bum.

Gallo will be pretty damn good for the Nuggets. He's on a team that will actually look to get him the ball and create instead of just make sit at the three point line.
I disliked him bc he was becoming ridiculously overrated. My biggest fear was our lovefest for Gallo would prevent us from pulling the trigger on moving him in a package for a star player. I'm very pleased that it wasn't. Obviously the front office (even prior to Dolan taking over talks) felt that he wasn't good enough to exclude as part of a trade package.

And thank God for that. He was getting to a point where I feared we'd be stuck with his "potential" instead of pulling the trigger for an already established stud.

And I'm tired of this "other teams will look to get him the ball" talk. That's ********. He had every opportunity to demand the ball when Stat went to the bench. Did he? No.

Great players don't need to be pushed to demand the ball. They take it. He's not that kind of player and never will be. When we sucked, nobody forced him to hang out at the 3 point line. He did that on his own. Our own coaching staff said they wanted him to attack more and they didn't like how passive he'd get during long stretches. It wasn't coaching. It was Gallo.

It wasn't necessarily Gallo that annoyed me, it's how overrated he became from our fan base bc we got so accustomed to dog crap for the past 10 years that we got complacent as a fan base and accepted the Gallinari's of the world as good players we must keep.

Thanks for the memories Gallo, I appreciate your hustle, but at the end of the day, you were just another guy. He gets glamorized for it bc he cared in a era of Knick basketball when nobody else did, but that doesn't make him special. That just makes him a good soldier.

Whoopidy doo.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Did we ever track down that throwback Amare jersey BBD was looking for? I think I might purchase one as well.
This. We seriously need to find those throwbacks. I can't find em anywhere.

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I will take my chances with Corey Brewer then Jeffries. They both suck but I would rather have the 24 year old one then the near 30 year old bum.

I do remember last year Forenci and he still sucked he was not the reason we won anything. Being the best defender on awful defensive team is not impressive.

Cause we need centers and PF's not a guy who guards PG's.
I agree with LT. I don't like the move for Jeffries, I don't see how it improves our team.
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