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Old 01-12-2011, 02:42 PM    (permalink
Forenci
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Sick play. I know there are other players out there with better stats than Amare, but he is clearly the MVP in my eyes. No player has even come close to his impact for the Knicks this year. That's what MVP is all about.

To me it's Amare by a fairly significant margin.
Sadly, the MVP in basketball is a little different than most sports. A lot of the time it goes to the best player on the best team in the NBA, rather than who is the most valuable player to their team.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:26 AM    (permalink
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Terrible showing last night. Terrible. How does Turiaf and Stoudemire get 5 rebounds combined?

Pathetic. I guess we can chalk it up to back to back games, the effort just wasn't there, but still. I'm tired of us trying to outscore everybody. We gave up 130 points last night. That's pathetic.

I really don't like D'Antoni's brand of basketball.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:16 AM    (permalink
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In more positive news, Melo to the Nets seems to have hit a snag. It seems like Melo really just wants to play for the Knicks.

*crosses fingers*
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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In more positive news, Melo to the Nets seems to have hit a snag. It seems like Melo really just wants to play for the Knicks.

*crosses fingers*
It actually does seem like that. When most Knicks fans were thinking LeBron last year I didn't see why he'd come here when he had better options, but Melo to the Knicks makes sense. He's a New York kid and I since we've obtained Amar'e so I can really see him wanting to come here.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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It actually does seem like that. When most Knicks fans were thinking LeBron last year I didn't see why he'd come here when he had better options, but Melo to the Knicks makes sense. He's a New York kid and I since we've obtained Amar'e so I can really see him wanting to come here.
What scares me though is I question if we have enough pieces to get him. I doubt we get him in FA bc 65 mill is just too much for him to leave on the table.

I guess only time will tell. I hope we don't give up too much if we get him. But somethings gotta give, so it is what it is.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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What scares me though is I question if we have enough pieces to get him. I doubt we get him in FA bc 65 mill is just too much for him to leave on the table.

I guess only time will tell. I hope we don't give up too much if we get him. But somethings gotta give, so it is what it is.
That's what a sign and trade is for. We can give him almost all the money he wants and the Nuggets get something for their effort, even if it's just a couple of picks.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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That's what a sign and trade is for. We can give him almost all the money he wants and the Nuggets get something for their effort, even if it's just a couple of picks.
Would it go down though? I only see it happening if he straight up tells Denver "I'm only signing with the Knicks"

But then if you're the Knicks and you hear this, why even trade for him when you can just sign him?

It's weird how this is playing out. He wants to have his cake and eat it to, but I don't see how it's possible for him.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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He can just wait until the summer and get S&T'd to the Knicks. Personally I think we see a 3-way trade with Chandler going to some team with a rookie contract guy going to Denver since Wilson doesn't want to sign with Denver when he's an FA this summer and his game is very similar to Melo's offensively. With Gallo taking a back seat to Chandler in their 3rd option platoon and this injury I think his value has dropped and it's Chandler who'll be the piece on the move.

Personally I just don't care anymore. Give it another year and the Gallo-Chandler-Fields troika will be consistent enough that one of them will go off every night depending on who's hot/has the best matchup. With Chandler capable of going left and getting to the line and Gallo's ability to create from the perimeter the offense will be deadly. Especially if instead of Melo we signed Nene and a PG. Nene would give us a big who we could run the PnR to when Amare's on the bench who can also shoot and pass so he's not in Amare's way when Amare's on the court. With that combo we'd have the best starting front court in the NBA ahead of even the Lakers duo.

My Dream Offseason without Melo?

Re-sign Wilson Chandler - love the progress in his game, he's starting to try and pass and create. If he can learn to do that, how to dribble with his left hand and get to the line he'd become an Allstar.

Sign Nene Hilario - Discussed above, perfect Center for Mike D and Amare, gives us great size when we need it and move Ronny to the bench where we protect his health and have Mozzie developing.

Trade AR, Toney Douglas and a pick for Ricky Rubio - This is a pure pipedream but if Minny wins the lottery they can't pass on Kyrie Irving since he's going to be fantastic. Then you've gotta cash in on Rubio and a long PF like AR to pair with Love and Darko in the paint is a decent start if you can get AR's head out of his vag. Dougie gives them a great defending backup combo guard since Flynn's game has completely fallen apart and he wasn't a good defender to begin with. Probably wouldn't happen but they like AR, maybe Kahn's flying hot since he's hit on his two re-construction projects, Super Cool Beas and Darko, and he really think AR will break out and become a 14/10/2B/2A per game guy...please?

Nene/Turiaf/Mozgov/Amare
Amare/Chandler/Turiaf
Gallo/Chandler/Williams
Chandler/Fields/Felton
Felton/Rubio/Rautins

Championship.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:51 AM    (permalink
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I think we can get a defensive center and a backup PG any time honestly. Those are role player pieces, you can find those every year. The opportunity of getting a star player like Melo doesn't present itself every year, so I think we should give a strong effort in getting him.

We'll lose some depth in acquiring Melo in all likelihood, but I really think depth is overrated.

Depth helps you in the regular season, but 8 teams make the playoffs, and depth doesn't do much in the playoffs. I rather us focus more of our resources in making our starting 5 as talented as possible.

Either way, I'm just gonna wait it out and see what happens. I think if we can get Melo and keep Felton in the process, we're a legit championship contender.

If not, we just have to go the other route like Rosebud stated and hope thats enough to make a push. That's pretty much it.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Nene's more than just a defensive center. He's a Center who'd improve our D and rebounding dramatically while also having the offensive skill to be a scorer for us who can help with the offensive flow.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Denver would let him and Melo both go though. I don't think he'll be on the table for us.

My statement was more of a general one, not targetting a specific player.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Denver would let him and Melo both go though. I don't think he'll be on the table for us.

My statement was more of a general one, not targetting a specific player.
I could definitely see him dipsetting this summer if Melo goes to the Nets or anyone else. I think he'd make as much of an impact for us as would Melo. Chandler, Gallo and Fields are still super young and getting more consistent every game. Chandler's doing all this despite being unable to go left or get to the line, Gallo's doing what he does on a lower usage than even Toney Douglas and has shown he can really dish the rock, what if we let him run the offense a little? Start off when Felts is on the bench and then if he excels like he should you even get to have Felts playing off of the ball a little which will help him get into a rhythm. I fully believe that a team can split the #2 role between a number of good players instead of one elite player. The Spurs to me are a constant reminder of that fact. With Nene, Chandler, Gallo and Felton we have 4 guys who can go for 20+ any night so I really don't think our O would be a problem, even against elite teams because no amount of good defense can stop that many talented scorers. We'd also finally have the size with Nene, Amare, Mozzie and Ronny to match up with even the biggest teams. Our D would get better and we'd be a threat to any team in the league.

We'd still need to find a back up PG, although as I've mentioned I think Gallo should get a chance in that role this season and I think he'll impress, which makes this less pressing of a need.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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....it's almost like you WANT me to rip on Gallo...


Anyway, see, here's my concern. You've seen the games. You notice how different the Knicks are when they play a quality team like the Lakers or Heat? A team that can defend Amare, we have NO chance of beating them. We need that other scorer. The only time we were competitive against the Heat, we hit an inordinate amount of 3s.

I firmly believe that the point totals of our players are the result of the system. The system inflates the perception of their true offensive production. You see it all the time. How many players looked great in D'Antoni's system then looked like crap elsewhere? It's bc the system fudges their numbers.

Nobody on our roster is a true #2. We won't beat any great teams until we get one. We may deceive ppl into thinking we can by playing competitive games, but we won't beat them in 7 game series the way we're currently built.

The Knicks know it too. They wouldn't try trading for Melo if our pieces were as good as we think they are. We have a bunch of great complimentary players, but if we still need that second ace. I firmly believe that.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Has anyone heard the Marc Gasol rumor?

I'd be on board.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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....it's almost like you WANT me to rip on Gallo...


Anyway, see, here's my concern. You've seen the games. You notice how different the Knicks are when they play a quality team like the Lakers or Heat? A team that can defend Amare, we have NO chance of beating them. We need that other scorer. The only time we were competitive against the Heat, we hit an inordinate amount of 3s.

I firmly believe that the point totals of our players are the result of the system. The system inflates the perception of their true offensive production. You see it all the time. How many players looked great in D'Antoni's system then looked like crap elsewhere? It's bc the system fudges their numbers.

Nobody on our roster is a true #2. We won't beat any great teams until we get one. We may deceive ppl into thinking we can by playing competitive games, but we won't beat them in 7 game series the way we're currently built.

The Knicks know it too. They wouldn't try trading for Melo if our pieces were as good as we think they are. We have a bunch of great complimentary players, but if we still need that second ace. I firmly believe that.
*shrug* The Heat are the best team in the league and our youngins are on a playoff caliber team for the first time in their lives. Against the Lakers we were just outsized and outgunned because rip on gallo all you want but other teams respect him and he's always got a tough assignment which protects Chandler from the Batum's, Kirilenko's and Artest's that can throw him off of his game, he also helps the spacing so teams like the Jazz and Blazers can't just pack the paint against us. We were missing that extra weapon on this trip and that's why the offense stuttered, because we couldn't just go to the next guy and have him beat you anymore. With a year I think Wilson and Gallo would be fully capable of sharing the 2nd go to scorer role with Felton, especially if we added someone like Nene who'd negate our size disadvantage against teams like the Lakers.

I mean we've come seconds away from beating boston, whomped on the Spurs and have now gone 2-2 on a tough road trip without a starter. When healthy we can take games from the best teams and with more size and development from our youngins we could do so consistently.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Getting a first for AR. Sweet.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Getting a first for AR. Sweet.
Eh? Did I miss something?
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Eh? Did I miss something?
Chris_Broussard‎ NYK will trade Anthony Randolph for 1st round pick within next 2 weeks, sources say. Minny, Indy, Portland among likeliest destinations
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah, I saw that. I thought you meant it was a done deal with someone. Hopefully we can get something done. Getting a first round pick for him would be a steal at this point..
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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*shrug* I think he's just not a very cerebral player so he's trying to make an impact instead of just being a part of the offensive flow, that's why AR looks so terrible for most of the times he's on the court. With his potential I think he's still got some value even if it looks like we won't be the team that happens for. I'm praying for AR, Douglas and whatever picks we can trade them for Rubio's rights in the summer after Minnesota's had to pick Kyrie Irving. But I know that's never going to happen...
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:53 AM    (permalink
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That was a classic trap game. They played like crap from the first whistle. It's ok though, it happens.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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That was a classic trap game. They played like crap from the first whistle. It's ok though, it happens.
I hate to do this but since you did bring it up before unprovoked: we've played quite ****** since Gallo has gone out of the lineup. Chandler has struggled more, and the offense has been woefully inconsistent as a whole. I mean, other than the Spurs game we really haven't looked impressive thus far. I'm not saying Gallo was the difference maker every game with his play, but there is something to be said for the spacing he gives guys by being a threat from 3pt land. Amar'e and company seem to need that spacing to be more effective, and it also creates open looks from three for other guys.

That and the fact he gives is automatic points from the FT line.

And while I do defend Gallo when you call him a bum (because it's down right BS), most people know I'm pretty objective when it comes to his play. I don't think he's going to be a star, nor would I hesitate to trade him if I thought it would benefit the team, but I think it's pretty obvious he's important to the construct of this team.

That might change if we bring in Melo and he's struggling to find playing time or a position, but right now we've really looked mediocre for the most part.
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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We miss his size. That's what we're missing. We have no other big body to sub in when Turiaf hits the bench.

So D'Antoni in all his wisdom decides "F it, let's just come out with 5 guards"

And we get killed when we do that, we get no rebounds, we can't defend anybody and give up a ton of easy buckets underneath etc.

So for those 5 minutes a game when we have to run with 4 Guards and a PF or 4 Guards and a SF, we get dominated and if we're not up or playing an inferior opponent, it'll cost us the game.

That's all there is to it. We need another big body.

Gallo is an average player. My hatred for him stems from the fact that he's thought to be more than that, when he's clearly not. He does add to our team, but he's not as important as we make him out to be.

If Gallo is a deal breaker for us when it comes to trading for Melo, I'm going to be PISSED. Gallo will never be anything more than mediocre, holding on to his "potential" is a waste of time.

Get him outta here while his stock is high. If Gallo was viewed as a guy who is a solid role player than I probably wouldn't have a problem with him. But bc he's viewed as a #2 guy, I can't stand him. He's no where close to being at that level, and he never will be.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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We miss his size. That's what we're missing. We have no other big body to sub in when Turiaf hits the bench.

So D'Antoni in all his wisdom decides "F it, let's just come out with 5 guards"

And we get killed when we do that, we get no rebounds, we can't defend anybody and give up a ton of easy buckets underneath etc.

So for those 5 minutes a game when we have to run with 4 Guards and a PF or 4 Guards and a SF, we get dominated and if we're not up or playing an inferior opponent, it'll cost us the game.

That's all there is to it. We need another big body.

Gallo is an average player. My hatred for him stems from the fact that he's thought to be more than that, when he's clearly not. He does add to our team, but he's not as important as we make him out to be.

If Gallo is a deal breaker for us when it comes to trading for Melo, I'm going to be PISSED. Gallo will never be anything more than mediocre, holding on to his "potential" is a waste of time.

Get him outta here while his stock is high. If Gallo was viewed as a guy who is a solid role player than I probably wouldn't have a problem with him. But bc he's viewed as a #2 guy, I can't stand him. He's no where close to being at that level, and he never will be.
I don't see that many Knicks fans that are in love with him. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of Knicks fans despised the Gallo pick and most just fell in love with him because he was the one player who tried and showed up on ****** Knicks teams the past couple years. Rosebud is really the only one I know, but he usually only discusses Gallinari when someone feels to need to knock him (which happens far more than anyone praising him).

I view him as a great #3 scoring option on a good team (with a couple stars like Melo/Amar'e). If Gallo is your third scorer on a team like that, he could be pretty special in that role. There aren't a lot of guys who can get to the line and be automatic points, as well as give the team a much needed sharpshooter.

I mean think about it. If we bring in Melo at some point, who the hell is going to shoot the 3 for us? Even in systems that aren't like D'Antoni's which rely on the 3, being able to shoot from behind the arc is critical in the NBA today. Chandler has improved from deep, but I'm still not a huge fan of his jump shot. Douglas is kind of a chucker. We could bring in some role players who can shoot from 3, but usually they're inconsistent and one dimensional.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Gallo is not a smooth shooter though. He's a rhythm shooter. If he had touch like Ray Allen, that's a different story. But he doesn't.
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