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Old 11-10-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
DoughBoy
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
I don't know about all that. Bush was literally unstoppable in college
CJ isnt? The guy is good for 2 or 3 big plays a game. I love the hype CJ is getting in this thread though. I dont think CJ is what Bush was supposed to be either. I thought Bush was going to be the next Barry Sanders coming out and after his rookie year.I also thought CJ was the second coming of Tony Dorsett. after his rookie year But, as far as his talent goes, his balance, speed, agility, vision, carrying(1 fumble last year, 1 this year) and blocking are all out of this world. He might be the most talented player we have had since Jevon Kearse and Pacman( Just hope he doesnt develop the injury bug or beat up strippers).
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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I understand that completely, but I think Chris Johnson has a better chance of holding up than Adrian Peterson does. Eventually Peterson's violent running style will catch up to him; in fact, I'm amazed it hasn't happened yet. Chris Johnson might have a 2,400 yard season and only have about 300 touches. That is out of this world.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Backs in general have concerns. If anything, powerbacks take more abuse and have shorter careers.

Thats why im personally a big believer in the RBC. Just constantly rotate some cheap midround guys and have a committee. Its cheaper, it keeps your run game fresher into the postseason, and its easier to replenish.
This is how I feel. I was thinking about downgrading CJ a bit because I don't think he should carry the load for a team. But it's not that he can't, he just shouldn't, and it's NFL Coaching 101 that there should be someone else to take snaps away from him to keep him fresher over the year and over his career.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Come on guys, don't you know that Ladainian is the best back?!?!
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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As of right now Chris Johnson is top5 nfl back.

no specific order but, Peterson, Turner, D.Williams and C.Johnson come to mind
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Wonderful talent there. I wouldn't worry so much about him not holding up, they do a tremendous job of getting him to the second level, and sealing off the edges so that he isn't getting piled on by linemen, and guys don't really get a clean shot on him, he'll be fine as long as they continue the spectacular blocking for him. Great synergy going. He's one of the 3 fastest players in the league at worst, he has a great size/speed ratio, his line is hitting on all cylinders for him, and the coaches are feeding him the rock.

They could get him more involved in the passing game though, he's a better receiver than his stat line indicates.

I can't help but think everyone going RBBC actually has a few negatives. I think when one back gets the bulk of the carries, he gets more loose, more into the flow of the game, and establishes a rhythm that leads to more big plays than guys who split carries.

The RBBC guys might have fresher legs, but when you know you aren't getting the carries, you are more prone to try and push too hard on your holes, or not really get a feel for what the defense is doing.

My own team as an example, I do love what we are doing with the 3 back system, where no guy is being overly exerted and pounded on, because with our line, the first half is full on grind it out mode where we are smashing into the LOS, and then in the 4th quarter after we've worn them down, we start hitting our big runs.

If we ran one back 25 times a game, he'd be demolished. I'd love to see more big runs, and I think those come more often with a feature guy that gets in rhythm, but Thomas, Bush and Bell all haven't shown that they can stay healthy enough to shoulder that load.

Thomas and Bell run so violently that they are always going to be a little nicked up, because neither are huge backs.

Bush has played most of his career with some sort of injury it seems, he had the heel injury as a rookie that nagged him for a while in the beginning of the season, and he's had his other two seasons nicked up and eventually ended with injury.

On that note, I want to hear from someone more medically educated than I am, but from what I know from basketball, Microfracture is always a serious surgery for a guy that relies on his athletic ability like Reggie does, but the usual deal is, it's 1 year of rehab and recovery, and then they can start playing, but you don't expect the knee to be back to 100% until around 2 years after the surgery.

I've never seen a player play until at LEAST the 1 year mark. Reggie had his surgery in mid-december of 2008, and he was back in june of 2009, that's not even 7 months. Is this a good sign that he recovered faster than expected, or did he come back too soon?

Granted he still is explosive, but he doesn't look quite as quick as he did last season before he got injured, when he was leading the league in touchdowns....

I guess we'll see what happens, but the Saints still seem to be being very cautious about it, because he gets taken from the game completely once we are ahead, and even when he starts out running well, they still don't feed him the ball when he looks to be flowing.

All in all though, I think RBBC and having a workhorse both have pros and cons that I notice more and more as I watch teams around the league.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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i think he got lost trying to find the end zone in week 6.
Honestly those two red zone visits were when I finally started thinking the era of LT may be winding down (and I know, against the masses, I am very late to that conclusion). The Ladainian I know simply doesn't get stopped there...as terrible as the O-line is, that was too close.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FloridaSkinzFan View Post
As of right now Chris Johnson is top5 nfl back.

no specific order but, Peterson, Turner, D.Williams and C.Johnson come to mind

In my personal order:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Maurice Jones-Drew
4. Ray Rice
5. DeAngelo Williams
6. Michael Turner
7. Steven Jackson
8. Ronnie Brown
9. Cedric Benson (I still have a hard time typing that)
10. Frank Gore
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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You know who is playing really well and receiving very little credit for it right now, Ricky Williams.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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You know who is playing really well and receiving very little credit for it right now, Ricky Williams.
Maybe his time off doing yoga and getting stoned gave him fresher legs
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Come on guys, don't you know that Ladainian is the best back?!?!

I miss LaDainian Tomlinson. The best moment of my football life was watching him pass Walter Payton with a 3-TD, 200 total yard game at Arrowhead Stadium.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I miss LaDainian Tomlinson. The best moment of my football life was watching him pass Walter Payton with a 3-TD, 200 total yard game at Arrowhead Stadium.
Better believe during this coming offseason when the turk comes for Ladainian I am starting a 'memories' thread. Engineering a 21 point comeback at Cincinnati with the ground game is a personal favorite of mine.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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In my personal order:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Maurice Jones-Drew
4. Ray Rice
5. DeAngelo Williams
6. Michael Turner
7. Steven Jackson
8. Ronnie Brown
9. Cedric Benson (I still have a hard time typing that)
10. Frank Gore
We have the same top 3, but why Gore so low and Rice so high?
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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We have the same top 3, but why Gore so low and Rice so high?
SHHHH he'll hear you!
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Backs in general have concerns. If anything, powerbacks take more abuse and have shorter careers.

Thats why im personally a big believer in the RBC. Just constantly rotate some cheap midround guys and have a committee. Its cheaper, it keeps your run game fresher into the postseason, and its easier to replenish.
Interestingly for the Jaguars, this is the first time in awhile we haven't had a RBBC. Fred Taylor and MJD were a kickass 1-2 punch in years past, but without Fred Taylor MJD is the lone guy. We have a decent backup in rookie Rashad Jennings who ran for his first TD this week, but he barely gets any carries, and neither does Greg Jones. The big question was if MJD could carry the load, and that seems to be the case.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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We have the same top 3, but why Gore so low and Rice so high?

Gore is too injury prone. Maybe I should have swapped him and Ronnie Brown in hindsight, but I wouldn't take him over any of the first seven guys I mentioned.

Why wouldn't Rice be that high? What can't he do as a RB? The guy is on pace to get 1,100 yards rushing, ten touchdowns and 90 catches for 900 yards, receiving! He also has assumed the goal-line job. Look what he did to the Minnesota Vikings' defense, that was one of the most impressive performances I've seen this year.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Gore is too injury prone. Maybe I should have swapped him and Ronnie Brown in hindsight, but I wouldn't take him over any of the first seven guys I mentioned.

Why wouldn't Rice be that high? What can't he do as a RB? The guy is on pace to get 1,100 yards rushing, ten touchdowns and 90 catches for 900 yards, receiving! He also has assumed the goal-line job. Look what he did to the Minnesota Vikings' defense, that was one of the most impressive performances I've seen this year.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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From what ive seen, if you can get past the line and get to Cj in the backfield, its going to be a loss. AD however can, in worst case scenario, get back to the line of scrimmage. But lets not forget about him because Farve came to town and the play calling changed significantly. Oh and yeah Cj is real good, second best next to peterson.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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oh yeah. Rice is everything Frank Gore SHOULD be. but, he's just never put it together for a season. Any list that has Gore over Rice would have to be based on potential...and even that is debateable.

I won't even attempt to rank them, but I'll just say that this is what I think are top tier RBs right now.

-Ronnie Brown
-Cedric Benson
-Ray Rice
-Chris Johnson
-MJD
-AD
-DeAngelo Williams
-Michael Turner
-Steven Jackson
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Gore is too injury prone. Maybe I should have swapped him and Ronnie Brown in hindsight, but I wouldn't take him over any of the first seven guys I mentioned.

Why wouldn't Rice be that high? What can't he do as a RB? The guy is on pace to get 1,100 yards rushing, ten touchdowns and 90 catches for 900 yards, receiving! He also has assumed the goal-line job. Look what he did to the Minnesota Vikings' defense, that was one of the most impressive performances I've seen this year.
Yeah, good point. I knew he had a lot of receiving yards, but that's pretty damn impressive.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
ThePudge
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In my personal order:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Maurice Jones-Drew
4. Ray Rice
5. DeAngelo Williams
6. Michael Turner
7. Steven Jackson
8. Ronnie Brown
9. Cedric Benson (I still have a hard time typing that)
10. Frank Gore
You better not have such a hard time squeezing Benson into that Top 6 or 7 by year's end. I've watched every game since his start with the Bengals and this guy is more than legit. His explosiveness and speed is tremendous for a power back and he's a terror between the tackles because of his vision, balance, and knack for falling forward. I don't like Rice that high, though I more than acknowledge and respect what he is doing. In no way was he the more dangerous back last week, and he is targeted on screen passes more often than any back in the league. Still the right choice for the Ravens, and a Top 10 back, I'm just not sold on him more so than Benson/Turner/Williams who I had listed at 6, 7, 8 respectively.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Rice is having an underrated year. I'm not sure if there is anyone is can catch better than him out of the backfield already. There are some guys close but Rice might be the best.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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CJ is very very good. If he can keep up the pace I'd label him great. It's a great comparison to stack him up with Peterson. Peterson's talent is out of this world, but I do wish that he carried the ball more. One thing I hate with Viking games is that when Peterson breaks a huge play, he's on the sideline and Chester Taylor comes in. I know you want to keep him fresh, but when the guy is hot I feel that you gotta keep going with him on that same drive. When they lost to the Steelers on that last drive, he wasn't even in the game. You gotta have your best player on the field when it's crunch time. I don't know if that's a coaching decision or not, but that shouldn't happen.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Rice is having an underrated year. I'm not sure if there is anyone is can catch better than him out of the backfield already. There are some guys close but Rice might be the best.
In terms of hands, vision, elusiveness, strength, and balance, Ray Rice has no equals right now. He's an extreme weapon for that Baltimore, and should continue this great statistical year. He doesn't have quite the home run ability of Chris Johnson out of the backfield, but overall as a receiver, he may be the most dangerous we've seen in awhile. He has some Brian Westbrook in him, and you better believe former Eagles assistant John Harbaugh has thought that same thing.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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In terms of hands, vision, elusiveness, strength, and balance, Ray Rice has no equals right now. He's an extreme weapon for that Baltimore, and should continue this great statistical year. He doesn't have quite the home run ability of Chris Johnson out of the backfield, but overall as a receiver, he may be the most dangerous we've seen in awhile. He has some Brian Westbrook in him, and you better believe former Eagles assistant John Harbaugh has thought that same thing.
The thing about this is, he had a grand total of 37 receptions at Rutgers. Weird huh?
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