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Old 11-10-2009, 07:45 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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That's not a good way to look at it I don't think. He was terrible in Chicago sure, but so was every player on Chicago's offense. He was excellent at Texas, there was a reason he was drafted in the top 5.

He's always had the talent, it just never came out. Some guys develop slow. I wouldn't expect any slowdown from him.
Benson always had the talent. Immaturity and injuries are the reasons why he failed.

But once he had it all taken away from him, the light came on. For his sake, let's hope it stays on. He has all the talent in the world, he just needs to keep his head on straight.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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Nobody wants to talk about Trent Cole huh?

I guess I'm the only one who feels he's that good?
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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I think Benson was finally put in the right situation for him... I remember hearing stories back when he first came into Chicago after his hold out he was perceived as a Prima-donna rookie, and his teammates didn't like him or support him at all. (even heard some Defensive players might have purposely been extra physical with him in practice to try and rough him up)

I think Marvin Lewis and that team have embraced him since coming to Cincinnati and truly gave him that 2nd chance. Now how will this increased work load effect him down the line? We'll just have to see... but he's their workhorse and opens up the Play-Action game for Carson Palmer so I don't see them letting up on his carries anytime soon.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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He is really good, it just is hard to get noticed in a league full of short and stocky pass rushing machines.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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I think Benson was finally put in the right situation for him... I remember hearing stories back when he first came into Chicago after his hold out he was perceived as a Prima-donna rookie, and his teammates didn't like him or support him at all. (even heard some Defensive players might have purposely been extra physical with him in practice to try and rough him up)

I think Marvin Lewis and that team have embraced him since coming to Cincinnati and truly gave him that 2nd chance. Now how will this increased work load effect him down the line? We'll just have to see... but he's their workhorse and opens up the Play-Action game for Carson Palmer so I don't see them letting up on his carries anytime soon.
I don't either. And I think its going to be a terrible mistake.

Although a Cincy fan posted in here and pointed out that they can give him a rest after the Steelers game. They play some soft opponents.

But the way their offense is built, they're built around Benson right now. So I don't know how much you can really let up off his shoulders without seeing a dropoff in offensive (and defensive) production
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Cedric Benson can handle the workload... for one season. If they don't add another capable back to lighten the load in the future then I would worry.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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He already has a ton of tread on his tires from his days at Texas alone. I'd worry about him shutting down within the next few weeks.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Just imagine what Ratliff would do with a real NT next to him.
Oh gosh... If he were next to Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers or Haloti Ngata he would be ... be... be umm.... don't even know the word. Supercalifragilisticexpialadocious x 100 million google??? Yeah, maybe that. LOL.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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But the way their offense is built, they're built around Benson right now. So I don't know how much you can really let up off his shoulders without seeing a dropoff in offensive (and defensive) production
Their offense is still built around Carson Palmer, whether we're running the football or throwing the football. Palmer wants this to be a running team for obvious reasons, but he's our backbone and go-to guy. Benson has paced this offense this year, but Palmer's the beating heart of that unit and the entire Bengals team.

Bernard Scott is healthy once again, as I said, and is expected to have his load increased to about 5-10 touches a game. Brian Leonard also should be expected to see a small rise in looks to about 6-8 per game. Benson's already a two down back because of the emergence of Brian Leonard as a 3rd Down back and you can expect that Bernard Scott is about to take an occasional series away from him. If you're looking for a little surprise rookie in the second half of year, look no further.

Expect the team to try to put the ball in Benson's hands right around 25 times next week. They still want to pace the game with a running attack with Benson, but they will be aiming to show Pittsburgh something they haven't seen so much of. That being said, Bernard Scott should get a few touches at RB in this game, and Brian Leonard should be expected to continue to be a focus on 3rd Down.

I know what you're saying with Benson and I think the Bengals agree. Don't automatically assume that's how it'll be all year, wait and see what happens in coming weeks against Pittsburgh, Oakland, Cleveland, and Detroit.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Nobody wants to talk about Trent Cole huh?

I guess I'm the only one who feels he's that good?
Trent Cole is a beast. Very underrated. Top tier DE for sure.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Yea, I think now that the passing game has kind of come around Bensons carries should be more reasonable especially with Scott coming back healthy. Scott is a VERY talented young player who could really complement Benson perfectly. I would really like to see him get more of a chance and I think he was well on his way to that before he got injured. Hopefully we see that emergence Sunday against the Stillers.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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This offense is much different from the days of Rudi johnson. The only reason Benson is on pace for nearly 400 carries is because of injuries. The idea coming into the season was going to be a 3 headed monster.

It looks bad now because in the last two games he got over 30 carries, but those are the only two games with 30 carries. He got 30 carries in the Chicago game because of injuries and in Baltimore we had to protect a very important lead. Knocking Baltimore off is huge for our chances for a wild card spot should Pittsburgh when the division.

Last time we played Pittsburgh, Benson only got 16 carries. We didn't overload him against that tough defense despite being down the entire game. I expect Scott and Leonard to be back and healthy and Benson to have a similar performance.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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I think the year thing works. Explosion might not FULLY return, but in the case of Bush and Amare, they have explosion to spare. How's Oden looking this season btw? He's a year removed now. Last year he just looked sluggish out there and since he was used to being so quick I think that accounts for most of his foul problems from last season.
Oden is like an entirely new player this season on defense, he's heavier than he was in college, and still looks explosive.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Since we have so may Bengal fans in this thread, what is the status on Andre Smith?
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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This sums up the Raiders.



To steal from Bill Simmons, ladies and gentlemen, your 2009 Oakland Raiders!


Just imagine what Ratliff would do with a real NT next to him.
This clip is fun but to be fair they were definitely pushed into each other. Within 5 yards!
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Since we have so may Bengal fans in this thread, what is the status on Andre Smith?
To be honest, I don't think he will make the line up at all this year unless there is an injury at RT. Right now Dennis Roland is starting at RT, this guy is a 6'9, 325 lb, 2nd year starter who has been incredibly impressive. It wouldn't be unfair to say that he probably is just making good use of his size rather than having great technique, but it's working for our run game.

Our offensive line coach (and assistant head coach) is Paul Alexander. And the impression I get from his interviews is that he doesn't want to ruin the current chemistry this line has, even if it means we have to keep our 1st round pick on the bench.

If Andre ever gets caught up to speed, it's not impossible for him to crack the starting line up, I just find it very unlikely at this point. We'll see I suppose.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Since we have so may Bengal fans in this thread, what is the status on Andre Smith?
He just started practicing last week. Probably a couple of weeks before we see him but who knows. haven't really heard too much.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Interesting to hear about that RT manbeast...whatever the Bengals are doing they shouldn't change it right now, it's obviously working and O-line is all about harmony between the big uglies. I like Andre quite a bit though, what a shame.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Thomas Davis was moved to the weakside this year (he really shouldve never been playing strong). He's blossomed under Ron Meeks this year, and his torn ACL pretty much ended any chance Carolina had

- Thought the Ryan slump was predictable this year. He was just too good too fast and he doesn't have the elite physical attributes to keep it up without some learning curve. The Rivers comparison I kind of like. It amazes me how well Rivers throws the ball downfield with his arm strength.

- Trent Cole being good is nothing new, though he certainly hasnt gotten the pub he deserves when he's been good for a while now

- I told you guys Curtis Lofton was good during that draft! He had those same special qualities I saw in Willis and DeMeco Ryans in college. No one listened

- Is it just me or has every offensive player who's gotten off the Bears done better than expected? Orton, Muhammad, Berrian, Benson, etc
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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[/QUOTE
Let me bounce this off of you: His second year of starting is reminding me a lot of Philip Rivers' sophomore campaign. Both are similar players in both physical talent and football IQ.

In 2007 Philip Rivers had a hard time handling pressure, throwing while getting hit, eventually he learned how to handle it but he threw a lot of interceptions and did not look very sharp that year. The same thing is happening to Ryan; the pass protection hasn't been there and he has sped up his play and is making ill-advised throws. I think he will figure it out eventually though, I am far from worried.

-
I can tell you that there were a variety of reasons for why Rivers didn't do well in his second year. One was that he was still recovering from the lisc franc injury that he sustained in the last game of the 2006 season against the Cardinals. He had problems setting his feet and throwing because of it. Perhaps, the other reason was that he was trying to learn Norv's offense, which was 100 times more difficult than Cameron's. He kept thinking too much instead of reacting. It wasn't until the Raven's game that he finally got it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Jackson has been excellent. He's improved every year and the Chargers have done a great job developing him into a #1 WR. Rivers to Jackson is going to be around for a long time. He knows how to use his body to his advantage and he looks like a very good route runner.
One of the reasons the Chargers picked up Jackson was because he not only played like the stereotypical big receiver, but he had this uncanny ability to make himself smaller. That is to say he could run routes and cut like a receiver half his size. He's certainly improving in that area.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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I agree about Benson. I am somewhat biased, though, in that I think he's just doomed to be a flash in the plan regardless of how many carries he gets. He's gonna tank any second now. The guy was flat out garbage every single season until this one.
He was pretty good last year finishing up with three consecutive 100 total yard performances (161-171-130). He has emerged as a team leader both on and off the field in Cincinnati since arriving. Still some Benson hate out there, which is odd if they watched the games. There's a lot to like in him and the Bengals are genuinely lucky he was available to be signed. The guy is a feature back.

Everyone knows about toughness, his power, his durability, but none of those qualities really define Benson. Cedric's game is defined most by vision and explosiveness. For a bigger back by today's NFL standards, he sees and squeezes through remarkably small holes and picks up extra yards after contact, he also reads his blocks well and finds running lanes. When he finds these lanes and holes, Benson is remarkably explosive, and dynamic. It's just a matter until he breaks a big run off. He's much faster than he's given credit for and will often make the first/second man miss. He has an innate knack for falling forward after contact as well.

I've said it more than once, and I have no problem saying it again, if you haven't seen Benson, I suggest you try, because he's one of the league's premier backs right now. He's still young with a relatively low tread on his tires in the NFL, so I wouldn't be quick to dismiss him. The Bengals are likely to reduce his carries and role soon, so the foreseeable future looks good.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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I always thought Benson's problems were more on the Bears than on him. Running back talent is easy to evaluate, and it doesn't just go away unless injury saps the athletic ability.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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-The traditional 4-3 WILL is a dying breed. I've realized this the past couple of weeks. We don't see many Derrick Brooks of the world anymore. Even players in college are not coming out in that mold anymore.

Why? Bc of the popularity of the 3-4 defense. Most kids in college are now developing their bodies to be 240 lbs, so they can either be 3-4 ILBs or 4-3 MIKEs.

Those speedy 4-3 WILLs are becoming rarer and rarer. The last guy that comes to mind that fit that profile coming out to me was Lawrence Timmons. And oddly enough, he gets drafted into a 3-4 and has to pack on weight and develop his body in that scheme.

The only 2 guys I can think of that are major players as traditional 4-3 WILLs in today's game are Lance Briggs (the prototype), and Michael Boley (he's been a complete stud for us, but just hasn't been healthy).
Will Witherspoon and Thomas Davis immediately spring to mind. We had witherspoon, when he left the team drafted beason, when he moved to middle, we moved Davis, who up until destroying his knee the other day was playing like one of the best in the league and was being touted as a pro bowler.

Witherspoon was a force in Carolina, and despite the issues in St Louis turned in decent enough performances, in Philadelphia he's been a wrecking machine and had a massive impact his first week there and was every where against the Cowboys.

It's not that the breed is dying it's that the popularity of the 34 has lead to a lot of OLBs in the 34 being small defensive ends and any talented linebackers in that scheme being shifted into the middle where it's far more difficult for their talent to shine through.

Jerod Mayo would be awesome as an WILL linebacker in most situations and before he left atlanta Keith Brooking was the definition of perennial pro-bowler.

There's plenty of guys recently and still around who play the roll amazingly well, it's just when someone says Outside linebacker these days they automatically assume that means pass rusher.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:34 AM    (permalink
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Also, I think if Derrick Johnson ever goes to a team that properly utilizes him, he could be the best outside LB we've seen in some time.
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