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Old 11-13-2009, 02:18 AM    (permalink
Xenos
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No... more like this guy:


















FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I warned you before the season that this would happen. He trusts his arm way too much and that leads to him staring down his receiver and trying to fit it in tight windows like the redzone. And it's not even a Ron Turner situation like I thought it would be. The guy is simply letting Cutler do whatever he wants like he did at Denver.

And no, I don't take any joy in what's happening to the Bears. Maybe this season will be a wakeup call to him, especially if he continues losing and the fans let him have it. I could see him being better next season if there's a big enough force to knock some sense into him.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:39 AM    (permalink
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his problem is that he is trying too much. but its not like anyone else is trying at all so yea, its better to see at least someone trying. not defending him, some of his decisions are downright horrible. but most of the times, he cant do a lot better
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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his problem is that he is trying too much. but its not like anyone else is trying at all so yea, its better to see at least someone trying. not defending him, some of his decisions are downright horrible. but most of the times, he cant do a lot better
I personally don't understand how the running game is this wretched. It was fine last year with Orton as the QB, and Cutler's arm was suppose to make it easier for Forte this season.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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I personally don't understand how the running game is this wretched. It was fine last year with Orton as the QB, and Cutler's arm was suppose to make it easier for Forte this season.
Its the oline. There are literally no holes. The Bengals got in our backfield with 6 guys while we had a TE and a FB blocking. They are all average at best at pass blocking, doesnt help as much though since the opponent knows whats coming. Last year, we had holes but this year there is really nothing.

Look at this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-be...rowns-vs-Bears

explains why we suck at rushing
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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I dunno what's happening with Cutler... last year in Denver he was great. Yes, he had INT problems, but at that point his positives vastly outweighed his negatives. I don't think it's all the talent difference either, cuz Cutler was damn good his second year when the line was awful, and it's not like he's terribly inaccurate and relied on guys like Marshall and Royal to make circus catches all the time. He's regressed. A lot.
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Its the oline. There are literally no holes. The Bengals got in our backfield with 6 guys while we had a TE and a FB blocking. They are all average at best at pass blocking, doesnt help as much though since the opponent knows whats coming. Last year, we had holes but this year there is really nothing.

Look at this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-be...rowns-vs-Bears

explains why we suck at rushing
Omiyale has to be one of the worst guards in the NFL
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Omiyale has to be one of the worst guards in the NFL
Crappy guard is the worst guard in the NFL. but besides him, Pace isnt doing well either and Kreutz is getting old
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't know why the Bears went for the Falcons' guard trash heap with Garza and Omiyale. It certainly has not helped.

Jay Cutler is who we all knew he was. He is practically the same guy he was at Vandy. He has always ebbed and flowed, had peaks and valleys, etc. He is doing worse this year, I think, because of the added pressure on him to be "the guy." Talent wise Denver was better so that exacerbates Jay Cutler's problems, his big games aren't as big and his bad games are much worse.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm as far away as possible from being a Cutler fan, but clearly the Bears aren't doing him any favors with the scheme and playcalling. Cutler is a flat out bad pocket passer, but a very good passer outside the pocket. His overall vision is poor for a starting QB and he doesn't anticipate well. His mechanics in the pocket are awful, awful. But he's accurate on the run and has the arm strength to push the ball downfield while on the move.

In Denver, Shanahan's offense cut the field in half for him, playing to his strength with all the bootlegs and rollouts. He can still be good, just never a "franchise" or perennial pro-bowl player with those limitations. But this offense is just a bad fit right now.

Clearly, in my opinion, the Bears got fleeced in the trade given that they have so many needs and zero help coming in the draft in the near future. The only way to cut their losses is to clean house and bring in Shanahan to run his offense because like it or not, they're stuck with Cutler for the next several years.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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like someone said in our thread:

Our offensive system is perfect for Cutlers weaknesses.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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What I think is interesting, though, is the Bears' receivers have been better than I thought they would be. Hester's transition is impressive, Olsen has been red hot lately, Knox is promising and Bennett is solid. The O-Line's problems have negated that positive.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Oline Problems are a lot worse than WR problems
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I personally don't understand how the running game is this wretched. It was fine last year with Orton as the QB, and Cutler's arm was suppose to make it easier for Forte this season.
Bears averaged 3.9 YPC last year. So it really wasn't that good last year. They did change three positions with Pace,Omiyale and Chris Williams. Williams is a first year starter and should be an LT since he isn't the mauler road grade tackle but obviously Pace has LT down, Kreutz has regressed some, Omiyale wasn't really ever the answer and Pace is aged as well.

Cutlers arm should open things up and the receivers have played better than expectations but they still don't have a receiver to fear to really open things up. And now they don't have a draft to find that receiver or fix the Oline. Maybe they can get a guard in free agency though. Should be some available. Draft is obviously shot though to find Oline and a true stud WR. Could get lucky and find a Colston in Round 3-7 but that rarely happens. Hester,Knox and Bennett should continue to get better, hopefully one of them steps up into a number 1 can't be covered role next year.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Count me in as someone who was tricked into believing Cutler was good.

I used to call him a Top 10 QB with mostly everyone else here.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Cutler makes some dumb throws even if he is trying to hard with a ****** team, ****** play calling and ****** line.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Interesting. I wrote down season predictions and some thoughts of how the season would play out (some right, some wrong), and one of the statements was that Cutler would not be a good fit in Chicago. The Bears have always been known for a good defense and run game, and Cutler doesn't fit the mold of a QB of that type of team; he takes way too many risks. However, you can't solely fault him. That offensive line is absolutely atrocious, especially in run blocking.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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If we still were a running and defense team, we'd be screwed big time
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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The play-calling is also bad. On 3rd and goal from the 1.5 yard line, after getting stuffed on 2 previous run plays its obviously going to be a pass play. So the Bears line up in goaline and do a play action, of course the 49ers didn't bight at all. Should have lined up in a pass formation and give the receivers a better chance at getting open.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to play both angles on Cutler in this post. I'm gonna say what makes him good, what makes him bad, and why he's overall an above average NFL qb but until he shows us more, is nothing more than that.


First off, let's say what he does well. The guy is mobile, has great pocket presence, we all know about his cannon, and has great accuracy.

Basically, physically, he's everything you want in a qb.


But thats where it ends. Everyone wants to kill his oline (and rightfully so), his WRs etc, but see, the thing is, a qb is also responsible for a lot of that. Its not just about what you see, thats one thing I learned about quarterbacks over the years. Thats why for the most part, I stay away from qb discussions these days.

We as fans, we don't know ****. And what we don't see has so much to do with the qb position, we can never accurately say who's in fact great or average etc.

And this is what we don't see with Cutler. He never adjusts protection, he never audibles and checks out of plays, he never readjusts blocking routes on run plays, he never motions WRs into better positions presnap to expose holes in the zone. (I shouldnt say never, rarely is a better word)

Basically, he does no presnap adjustments. And thats half the battle. The true elite qbs in this league make those adjustments. Those adjustments make the entire offense better. People sometimes forget that the qb is even responsible for some of the run game. Adjusting blocking assignments before the snap, changing the direction of the run, even checking into a run....these are all things that elite qbs do. He does none of them.

On top of that, he relies on his arm way too much. He doesnt look off defenders that well, he really doesn't scan the field all that well, he takes way too many risks, and thats why he'll have an incredible game where you say "wow, he really threw into tight windows" followed by a 5 int game.

So while Cutler isn't to blame for some of their woes, if he was truly the elite qb they thought they had in him, hed take the next step and make those sight adjustments. And he doesn't.

Thats something a lot of qbs don't do to be honest. A lot of those qbs are heavily overrated by this board. We just look at completion %, TD #s and say wow, he's good. No, its not that simple.

Cutler is the first to be exposed, but there are several qbs in this league in his mold. He's not the only one.

Thats why its so hard comparing qbs. Bc there are so many factors outside his own ability that factor into his "production".

Now having said all that, Cutler does make his team around him better bc of his godgiven ability. He doesn't do it like Peyton does, but his natural talent alone makes his team better. And I think he doesn't get enough credit for making his WR core better than it really is. So he does possess certain traits that an elite qb needs to have. He just also has traits that elite qbs don't have. He needs to mature a little, and do a better job with his presnap abilities before I pencil him in as a true elite qb. He's also not a winner, and not very clutch. Thats why he's above avg, but nothing more for now.

Fantasy football has killed our perception of what a good football player is nowadays. The qb position is the most glaring example of it.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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BBD, i dont think sliding the protection would help since the biggest problem isnt unaccounted blitzers or rushers, but it is people getting beat cleanly off the snap, being pushed back into the backfield or just whiffing blocks. u can adjust all you want but its not gonna help if your player cant do what he is supposed to
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Old 11-14-2009, 08:57 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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BBD, i dont think sliding the protection would help since the biggest problem isnt unaccounted blitzers or rushers, but it is people getting beat cleanly off the snap, being pushed back into the backfield or just whiffing blocks. u can adjust all you want but its not gonna help if your player cant do what he is supposed to
Which is why I'm not getting on him too much. He's still an above avg qb to me. But he can help the issue a little by identifying coverages and getting the ball out quicker, leaving guys in to block etc.

He doesn't do that, so it compounds the issue. His natural ability in the pocket makes it less of an issue, but its still an issue that he ignores.

Same with the run game, theres adjustments that can be made. Sliding guys, rerouting the run away from the 8th man, even checking into a run on 2nd down in some situations when you see the DTs playing pass rush, or catch the defense in an unfavorable front.

It might not be a huge difference, but when your oline is this bad, something is better than nothing.


The crappy part of this for Chicago is that they can't fix many of their issues immediately, bc they gave up so many draft picks. Then wasted another one on Gaines Adams, which is a fail for another time.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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What I think is interesting, though, is the Bears' receivers have been better than I thought they would be. Hester's transition is impressive, Olsen has been red hot lately, Knox is promising and Bennett is solid. The O-Line's problems have negated that positive.
Thank Jay Cutler.

The guy has the natural ability to elevate others' play...but that O-line and running game is killing him...that and Olsen is the closest to a prototypical game breaker amongst the offensive weapons.

Of all the young QB's in this league, I don't think anyone is asked to do more with less than Cutler. Few, if any, QBs would be playing well on the Bears.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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In response to the post of Cutler not doing all the little things Pre-snap, and audibling at the line.. I would say that might not be ALL on him, you have to look at the all around Offensive system. That's the hard part about us as fans that don't have access to those team meeting rooms we truly don't know what kind of options each QB is given before the snap.

The blame might lie at the all around Offensive systems, we don't know for sure what kind of flexibility Cutler is allowed at the Line of scrimmage... obviously there has to be some kind of fall back audibles.... I know QBs like Peyton, Brady, Brees are given great freedom from their coaching staffs to audible and change plays at the line of scrimmage but that's because they've earned the right to almost completely dictate the Offense based on what they see at the line.

We truly don't know if Cutler is allowed to make certain audibles, he might not be able to motion a receiver before the snap to take advantage of a possible hole in a zone... simply because that system in Chicago might not have the same pre-snap motions designed in their plays, like he had available to him in Denver. Ron Turner strikes me as a very stiff kind of guy that doesn't tinker with his system... so he might be against Cutler changing things up... we truly don't know the whole story.... but I do agree Cutler has to get better with Pre-Snap recognition.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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In response to the post of Cutler not doing all the little things Pre-snap, and audibling at the line.. I would say that might not be ALL on him, you have to look at the all around Offensive system. That's the hard part about us as fans that don't have access to those team meeting rooms we truly don't know what kind of options each QB is given before the snap.

The blame might lie at the all around Offensive systems, we don't know for sure what kind of flexibility Cutler is allowed at the Line of scrimmage... obviously there has to be some kind of fall back audibles.... I know QBs like Peyton, Brady, Brees are given great freedom from their coaching staffs to audible and change plays at the line of scrimmage but that's because they've earned the right to almost completely dictate the Offense based on what they see at the line.

We truly don't know if Cutler is allowed to make certain audibles, he might not be able to motion a receiver before the snap to take advantage of a possible hole in a zone... simply because that system in Chicago might not have the same pre-snap motions designed in their plays, like he had available to him in Denver. Ron Turner strikes me as a very stiff kind of guy that doesn't tinker with his system... so he might be against Cutler changing things up... we truly don't know the whole story.... but I do agree Cutler has to get better with Pre-Snap recognition.
Good post.
Cutler's pre-snap recognition is an issue. The Bears rarely, if ever, use audibles. What worked in the 90s doesn't work now. Teams are just too smart and well prepared for that. Combine all of that with an offensive line that is losing most of the individual matchups and getting beat by 4 down linemen and a non-existent running game, you get this mess.
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Old 11-14-2009, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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I believe that is the biggest reason why an offense and a QB fail is when an OC doesn't humble himself and give the QB the option of changing the plays. Not every QB is capable of doing it however, but I'm not sure that is a problem that Jay Cutler has.
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