Best WR in the NFC East? - Page 12

Supporting Caste · 01-05-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN72

Austin has improved, but he isn't the three dimensional player Jackson is, although he is the more polished reciever.

This, by far, is the dumbest comment in the entire thread. Jackson has absolutely nothing on Austin as far as versatility. Austin does everything extremely well and Jackson does one or two things great.

bigbluedefense · 01-05-2010, 12:27 PM

Just out of curiosity.

How many ppl here who aren't Cowboys fans think Austin is better than Jackson?

Can we get a headcount on that?

Go_Eagles77 · 01-05-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Just out of curiosity.

How many ppl here who aren't Cowboys fans think Austin is better than Jackson?

Can we get a headcount on that?

According to the poll, 2.

8 eagles fans voted for Jackson and 8 cowboys fans voted for Austin, and look at the overall difference. Plus some cowboys fans even voted for Jackson.

D-Unit · 01-05-2010, 01:42 PM

My question: What is the definition of "better"?

Go_Eagles77 · 01-05-2010, 01:47 PM

They are 2 different types of receivers and play 2 different positions. I would say the definition of "better" would be which one does their job better.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77

They are 2 different types of receivers and play 2 different positions. I would say the definition of "better" would be which one does their job better.

based on last game, and most of this year, that would be Miles Austin. Take away the deep passing game, you shut down Desean Jackson. You can't shut down Austin because there are so many facets to his game.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

My question: What is the definition of "better"?

Who is more valuable. Just like when you build draft boards. How do you decide if a linebacker should be rated higher than a o-lineman? It is all about who is more valuable. Seriously, you are make this more hard than it really is.

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesAustin4MVP

based on last game, and most of this year, that would be Miles Austin. Take away the deep passing game, you shut down Desean Jackson. You can't shut down Austin because there are so many facets to his game.

can't shut him down? orly?

Corey Webster/KP week 2 disagree
so do:
the Carolina CB's
Champ Bailey
Charles Woodson
Washington week 11

AND you couuld argue Philly week 9 and Tampa week 1

but he IS impossible to shut down...

Go_Eagles77 · 01-05-2010, 01:59 PM

He had one catch against the eagles in their first matchup on a blown coverage and got in the endzone by atrocious tackling. Contrary to what you believe, DeSean has been more consistent game by game.

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77

He had one catch against the eagles in their first matchup on a blown coverage and got in the endzone by atrocious tackling. Contrary to what you believe, DeSean has been more consistent game by game.

i haven't looked at Desean's game by game, but most of Miles' stats came in huge chunks against the likes of the Chiefs, ATL, Washington, Oakland and the Giants the 2nd time around.

He did have some very nice games and closed strong, but he had some really meh games

SeanTaylorRIP · 01-05-2010, 02:06 PM

I love Steve Smith as he's one of the most polished receivers in the league and just has the natural ability to understand the position, but I have to go with DJax. He's one of the top 5 playmakers in the entire league. His threat also has so much to do with Celek exploding this year. Also his impact as an elite returner has to be put into the equation.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

i haven't looked at Desean's game by game, but most of Miles' stats came in huge chunks against the likes of the Chiefs, ATL, Washington, Oakland and the Giants the 2nd time around.

He did have some very nice games and closed strong, but he had some really meh games

LOL! Austin just had a 7 catch 90 yard game against Philly's corners. Keeping in mind Philly is ranked 3rd according to football outsiders against the opposing team's number 1 wide receiver.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
Before that he had 9 receptions for 92 yards against Washington's 8th ranked passing defense

I Love how you qualify your statement by saying that you don't know squat about Desean Jackson's stats before you go on (ignorantly) bashing Austin's stats. But if you actually look at Jackson's stats most of his big games are against teams with weak passing defenses.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...playerId=11283

The reason why is quite simple, and one which I have been saying time and time again. Teams with the personnel to shut down the deep routes can effectively shut down Desean Jackson. They weren't able to do that with Austin.

Forenci · 01-05-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesAustin4MVP

LOL! Austin just had a 7 catch 90 yard game against Philly's corners. Keeping in mind Philly is ranked 3rd according to football outsiders against the opposing team's number 1 wide receiver.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
Before that he had 9 receptions for 92 yards against Washington's 8th ranked passing defense

I Love how you qualify your statement by saying that you don't know squat about Desean Jackson's stats before you go on (ignorantly) bashing Austin's stats. But if you actually look at Jackson's stats most of his big games are against teams with weak passing defenses.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...playerId=11283

The reason why is quite simple, and one which I have been saying time and time again. Teams with the personnel to shut down the deep routes can effectively shut down Desean Jackson. They weren't able to do that with Austin.

I think you're full of it, but whatever. I've seen Jackson be effective several times in the red zone running over the middle, and if he were to say, play in Green Bays offense where they constantly run slant routes I'd have little doubt he'd dominate there as well.

BBD has said it a million times, but you just ignore it for whatever reason: the Eagles use Jackson deep not only because he gets open and makes big plays but because even when he's not catching the ball and getting open he's clearing the middle of the field for Celek and company.

It's the same premise that the Giants use with Mario Manningham. He is more useful when he's constantly running deep routes, even if he's not catching the ball or getting open because he opens up the underneath routes for Nicks and Smith. Granted he's not even close to Desean Jackson in terms of ability but the principle is the same.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

I think you're full of it, but whatever.

I'm full of it? I'm citing stats. Instead of disputing those stats, you resort to ad hominems to fill the holes of your ridiculous argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

I've seen Jackson be effective several times in the red zone running over the middle, and if he were to say, play in Green Bays offense where they constantly run slant routes I'd have little doubt he'd dominate there as well.

LOL! Desean Jackson has three receptions from within the redzone.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...playerId=11283

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

BBD has said it a million times, but you just ignore it for whatever reason: the Eagles use Jackson deep not only because he gets open and makes big plays but because even when he's not catching the ball and getting open he's clearing the middle of the field for Celek and company.

I've acknowledged it, but you are ignoring what I am saying. What happens when teams take away the deep routes? It would be pretty idiotic for Reid to tell Jackson to keep on running deep routes when the opposing defense is focusing on shutting those down. At that point Desean Jackson should be able to keep defenses honest by doing something elses, but he can't because he is one dimensional.

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 05:19 PM

you said it was impossible to shut down Austin, and I refuted that. I refuse to get into this debate between the 2 and let iggle and cowgirls fans duke it out. I just put outrageous homerism in it's place. (which is pretty damn ironic)

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

you said it was impossible to shut down Austin, and I refuted that. I refuse to get into this debate between the 2 and let iggle and cowgirls fans duke it out. I just put outrageous homerism in it's place. (which is pretty damn ironic)

Refuted that? Please point to the post where you refuted that. You got whipped and now you are backing away with your tail between your legs

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesAustin4MVP

Refuted that? Please point to the post where you refuted that. You got whipped and now you are backing away with your tail between your legs

...I posted examples of games where Miles Austin got shut down. Like the Carolina game where he was held without a catch. Or the first Giants game where he barely did anything. Or the Green Bay game where he had 4 catches and like 29 yards. He's been shut down. And if I had a tail, it sure as hell wouldn't be between my legs, it'd be erect like the Empire State Building. So, you brought up how I didn't look up Djax's stats. Cool. I didn't. I haven't mentioned him, nor entered this debate between the two, I just corrected you on saying that it's impossible to shut Austin down. I don't see the "whipping".
And if you don't get this...I don't know, I spelled this post out pretty clear. Maybe I'll start posting lyke thiz 2 gett ppls attenshun and reed mah posts bettar and underrrstand dem fo sho'.

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

...I posted examples of games where Miles Austin got shut down. Like the Carolina game where he was held without a catch. Or the first Giants game where he barely did anything. Or the Green Bay game where he had 4 catches and like 29 yards. He's been shut down.

Bwhahahahaha. Dude are you for real? Austin was still the third receiver in the Carolina and Giants games. He didn't start until the Kansas city game. Do you realize that? So you are really really reaching with those ones. And technically he was shut down in Green Bay, but Romo was sacked 5 times and being pressured all night in that game. I would hardly put that on Austin. So no you didn't refute it.

Point is Austin has burnt good pass defenses this year. You can't say the same thing about Desean Jackson.

Go_Eagles77 · 01-05-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesAustin4MVP

At that point Desean Jackson should be able to keep defenses honest by doing something elses, but he can't because he is one dimensional.

This is a joke and is really making me question how much of Jackson you have seen. He's one of the best route runners in the NFL and runs every route as good if not better than Miles Austin. The guy routinely catches crossing routes and takes them up field for huge chunks of yardage. He is very good at finding holes in zones all over the field and believe it or not gets most of his catches that way, not from post routes. The whole "all DeSean does is run go routes" is starting to approach the old "Brian Westbrook can't run inside" bull**** in terms of stupid myths about eagles players. It seems like you're basing your entire argument on his 2 games against Dallas this year and stats that don't tell the whole story.

scottyboy · 01-05-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesAustin4MVP

Bwhahahahaha. Dude are you for real? Austin was still the third receiver in the Carolina and Giants games. He didn't start until the Kansas city game. Do you realize that? So you are really really reaching with those ones. And technically he was shut down in Green Bay, but Romo was sacked 5 times and being pressured all night in that game. I would hardly put that on Austin.

Point is Austin has burnt good pass defenses this year. You can't say the same thing about Desean Jackson.

ok, so he couldn't beat out big roy and crayton and was the #3 reciever, so that means I'm just wrong. Nice. And because there was pressure (which also means blitzes causing open WR's AND WR's not getting open) means that just doesn't count. Sooo Austin is immune to everything, even though he was shut down by GB, the first Washington game, and couldn't beat out big roy and crayton til later on. Can you say Jerry Rice incarnate?
and for the last time. I HAVE NOT MENTIONED JACKSON, NOR AM I GETTING INVOLVED IN SAID DJAX/AUSTIN DEBATE.
i used caps, maybe you'll comprehend it this time...but probably not.

D-Unit · 01-05-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesAustin4MVP

Who is more valuable. Just like when you build draft boards. How do you decide if a linebacker should be rated higher than a o-lineman? It is all about who is more valuable. Seriously, you are make this more hard than it really is.

Draft boards are based off needs though. If you have a need at LB and OT (using your example) and there is 1 great OT and 15 great LBs, who's higher on your board?

A talent like Desean is harder to find. He may not have the skills to be your #1 WR, but half the teams in the league have a #1 WR. How many teams have a Desean Jackson?

For that reason Jackson is higher on my board, but I don't call him "better" per se. Austin is a more complete package.

That's why I ask... what is the definition of better.

bigbluedefense · 01-05-2010, 07:05 PM

If DeSean Jackson is not a #1 WR, then neither is Randy Moss, Steve Smith (Car), Greg Jennings, Roddy White and countless other WRs in this league.

Some of the things Ive read in this thread are unbelievable.

Jvig43 · 01-05-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

If DeSean Jackson is not a #1 WR, then neither is Randy Moss, Steve Smith (Car), Greg Jennings, Roddy White and countless other WRs in this league.

Some of the things Ive read in this thread are unbelievable.

especially by Cowboy fans, this whole Miles Austin crap theyve all been pulling out this season is really starting to piss me off. And does anyone else think Supporting caste is really MilesAustin4mvp?

MilesAustin4MVP · 01-05-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Draft boards are based off needs though. If you have a need at LB and OT (using your example) and there is 1 great OT and 15 great LBs, who's higher on your board?

Draft boards are not based on need at all. They are based on round grades. Rafael Vela of blogging the boys usually has a post on this every year as a primer for the draft. A scout team will grade so many players as first rounders (usually around 20) then so many players as second rounders and so on. From what I remember our finally board will usually have around 150 draftable players. So it doesn't have anything to do with need. How do you decide if a OL has a higher grade than say a DL? You figure out which one is better.

And Austin gets deep also, but he can do a lot more things. And you can find receivers like Jackson all the time. Like Roddy White and Devery Henderson and so on. Some are better than others but it is not like Jackson is unique, although he is really good at it, but that is all he does.

Jvig43 · 01-05-2010, 07:22 PM

What things does Austin do you keep referring to.