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View Poll Results: Who's the best WR?
DeSean Jackson, Eagles 67 72.04%
Miles Austin, Cowboys 15 16.13%
Steve Smith, Giants 6 6.45%
Santana Moss, Redskins 1 1.08%
Mario Manningham, Giants 3 3.23%
Other 1 1.08%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2011, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I'll quote bill parcells when it comes to victor cruz: "don't pull out the anointing oil just yet."

Plenty of players have had flashy seasons and then faded off into the purgatory knows as average land. Remember Julius Jones? If Cruz does this again next year and then keeps it up for the rest of his career, I will be pretty surprised.

Dez will get there. If you told me with a straight face you wouldn't be jumping for joy if the cowboys and giants traded cruz for dez straight up I would ask you what shrooms you were on and pay you handsomely for some.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm assuming your thoughts on Victor Cruz are exactly the same you had about Miles Austin in his first big year?
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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I'm assuming your thoughts on Victor Cruz are exactly the same you had about Miles Austin in his first big year?
Actually, Miles Austin is an intriguing story because he was suppose to break out the year before he did. In 2008 training camp, the team was incorporating Miles in the slot and giving him a chance to battle with Patrick Crayton for playing time. This was after we released Terry Glenn and before we traded for Roy Williams obviously. But in training camp, Miles pulled his hamstring, and pretty much put a damper on that season for him. He did some good things later in the year, but didn't allow him to break out. Therefore, we traded for Williams, and we all know how that went down.

Of course I don't hold not knowing that against you, obviously only a cowboy fan would know that. I have no idea what has gone on in giants training camp over the past few years either.

Not to mention, miles is a much better physical specimen than Cruz.

EDIT: And again, I like cruz and think he is a good player who will undoubtably make our secondary look bad, but he isn't the second coming of Jesus, and living in the tri-state are and hearing that all the time just gets annoying. I think you understand that. That's what happens in the north east though, I understand that. I love living here, but that is one thing I hate about here. No other fans or people in general seem to over exaggerate over things like North Easterners do.

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Old 12-27-2011, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Actually, Miles Austin is an intriguing story because he was suppose to break out the year before he did. In 2008 training camp, the team was incorporating Miles in the slot and giving him a chance to battle with Patrick Crayton for playing time. This was after we released Terry Glenn and before we traded for Roy Williams obviously. But in training camp, Miles pulled his hamstring, and pretty much put a damper on that season for him. He did some good things later in the year, but didn't allow him to break out. Therefore, we traded for Williams, and we all know how that went down.

Of course I don't hold not knowing that against you, obviously only a cowboy fan would know that. I have no idea what has gone on in giants training camp over the past few years either.

Not to mention, miles is a much better physical specimen than Cruz.
Very similar to Cruz last year. He was one of the NFL's preseason darlings last year and then got hurt so he had no impact at all.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Very similar to Cruz last year. He was one of the NFL's preseason darlings last year and then got hurt so he had no impact at all.
Check my edit. You do make good points.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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while the cruz hype was unbearable in the beginning of the year, he's grown and progressed as a huge weapon this year. that's undeniable. I also agree, let's see if he can keep it up and not be a one year wonder.

but you can understand how everyone's getting a little tired of D-Unit's excuses for Dez. It was he's "the most talented" and now he's "the best decoy". like really? come on. I know he's a ridiculous talent and physical specimen, but let's see him put it all together for a year
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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In basically one playing year, Cruz has already had a better year than Austin has ever had. While I agree in a way about the anointing oil, this isn't a guy who has bounced around the league and is having a great year after doing nothing for 5-6 years. We all saw the talent he had as a rookie in preseason. He got hurt and ended his season 4 games in. Now in his basically his only year playing he is putting up a monster year.

We all wanted to bring him along slowly because we weren't sure he could handle all the reads he'd have to make as the slot receiver. He's past all our expectations. He done very well making all the proper leads at multiple WR positions. He's really been a season saver.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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In basically one playing year, Cruz has already had a better year than Austin has ever had. While I agree in a way about the anointing oil, this isn't a guy who has bounced around the league and is having a great year after doing nothing for 5-6 years. We all saw the talent he had as a rookie in preseason. He got hurt and ended his season 4 games in. Now in his basically his only year playing he is putting up a monster year.

We all wanted to bring him along slowly because we weren't sure he could handle all the reads he'd have to make as the slot receiver. He's past all our expectations. He done very well making all the proper leads at multiple WR positions. He's really been a season saver.
Actually, that's quite wrong. In 2009, Miles only started 9 games, and played a good amount in 2 others. So that's 11 games. He exploded onto the scene against kansas city, and had 4 catches for 80 yards in the first 4 games. So in 11 games, he had over 1,300 yards, and 11 touchdowns.

After sunday night, Cruz will end up with 7 starts, but has played significantly in more than 11 games this year. So basically, their break out years were the exact same, and Miles will most likely end up with more touchdowns. (although cruz easily could have 3 on sunday on our secondary)

So it's more or less a wash, and Miles repeated it the following season, and probably would have been in the pro-bowl this year if it wasn't for his hamstring. He still has 600 yards and 7 TD's. His game against the 49ers, on one leg no less was arguably the best performance by a WR this year in the entire NFL. No question it's in the top 3.

Just my 2 cents though..

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Old 12-27-2011, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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So do Giants fans think Cruz is better than Nicks?
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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So do Giants fans think Cruz is better than Nicks?
Talent wise, no. But he is out performing him and he's way more versatile. It's like Dez, Nicks has the physical attributes to better, but it currently not translating on the field. Nicks just has too many drops.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Talent wise, no. But he is out performing him and he's way more versatile. It's like Dez, Nicks has the physical attributes to better, but it currently not translating on the field. Nicks just has too many drops.
Still didn't answer my question. Who's better Cruz or Nicks? Don't dog around the answer. Straight up, who's better?
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Dez is seeing the same amount of targets as guys like Early Doucet, Jerome Simpson and David Nelson yet he's still tied for 4th in the NFL in TDs. The only thing stopping him from running away with this is Tony Romo and Jason Garrett. They don't have the same level of comfort or familiarity with him as they do Miles and Witten, and it's unfortunate because I've thought from Day 1 that Dez is the type of player that your offense should run through. He's got Larry Fitzgerald playoffs 09 in him whenever Dallas is smart enough to feed him the rock.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Still didn't answer my question. Who's better Cruz or Nicks? Don't dog around the answer. Straight up, who's better?
Well football is played on a field and not with combine stats, so Cruz is better right now.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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I have no proof to back this up right now but Nicks might draw more double teams than Cruz which helps open up Cruz more. It's a terribly hard to choice to say who is better right now but I guess I'll go with Crus just because his production has been better.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Still didn't answer my question. Who's better Cruz or Nicks? Don't dog around the answer. Straight up, who's better?
define better. it's so hard to claim one guy is flat out "better" than another when the talent is so close.

Cruz is better in the slot. Nicks is better on the outside. Nicks is a better red zone threat. Cruz has better numbers.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Can we make a new poll in this thread with some of the newer WR's like Dez, Cruz, Nicks, Maclin and so on? It would be nice to an updated vote.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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i wanna update all of them. DB, LB, pass rusher, Oline etc. TE is easily Witten and QB would just end up as a fight between Eli and Romo.
and RB is McCoy, followed by Bradshaw, followed by scrubs (Demarco and Felix are ok I guess)
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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i wanna update all of them. DB, LB, pass rusher, Oline etc. TE is easily Witten and QB would just end up as a fight between Eli and Romo.
and RB is McCoy, followed by Bradshaw, followed by scrubs (Demarco and Felix are ok I guess)
Yeah that would be fine also. I guess we can just make new threads but I thought it would be easier just to update the polling section.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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i wanna update all of them. DB, LB, pass rusher, Oline etc. TE is easily Witten and QB would just end up as a fight between Eli and Romo.
and RB is McCoy, followed by Bradshaw, followed by scrubs (Demarco and Felix are ok I guess)
No, it wouldn't. Romo is awful.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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No, it wouldn't. Romo is awful.
LOL... Zzzzzzzz

Vick can't smell Romo's jockstrap. But anyway...

As far as running back goes, it's obviously McCoy, but bradshaw over Murray? That's up for serious debate. DeMarco is a stop. Felix sucks, but give respect where respect is due with DeMarco. He is a better back than Bradshaw. And the same argument can't be made about him being a one year wonder or something, because he was one of the most productive backs in NCAA history to go along with some legit talent and physical tools. His only knock is injuries, even though thats wrong because he missed all of 2 and a half games at OU.

But again, Vick over Romo? lol, in what? Piloting a perennial .500 team? Got him there.....
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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LOL... Zzzzzzzz

Vick can't smell Romo's jockstrap. But anyway...

As far as running back goes, it's obviously McCoy, but bradshaw over Murray? That's up for serious debate. DeMarco is a stop. Felix sucks, but give respect where respect is due with DeMarco. He is a better back than Bradshaw. And the same argument can't be made about him being a one year wonder or something, because he was one of the most productive backs in NCAA history to go along with some legit talent and physical tools. His only knock is injuries, even though thats wrong because he missed all of 2 and a half games at OU.

But again, Vick over Romo? lol, in what? Piloting a perennial .500 team? Got him there.....
I love Demarco but you cannot put him over Bradshaw after what? 5 games? Come on now. You can't use his college numbers here either, that's just silly. You can't just say "he's a better back". You're anointing Murray by calling him better than Bradshaw. Bradshaw has been unreal for the Giants in the past, and has been derailed this year by injuries and a dog **** run blocking OL. But his pass protection is severely underlooked and he just brings a whole new spark to our offense. I fight to the death saying he's our most under-rated player
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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I love Demarco but you cannot put him over Bradshaw after what? 5 games? Come on now. You can't use his college numbers here either, that's just silly. You can't just say "he's a better back". You're anointing Murray by calling him better than Bradshaw. Bradshaw has been unreal for the Giants in the past, and has been derailed this year by injuries and a dog **** run blocking OL. But his pass protection is severely underlooked and he just brings a whole new spark to our offense. I fight to the death saying he's our most under-rated player
Touche. You make some good points. We need a bigger body of body of work. But he is better than ok, and I will argue over that.

Again though, Vick or Romo? Lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz... wake me up when were are talking about reality please. Wake me up when Vick has ever done anything of importance besides a win in lambeau when my great grandma was still in grade school, and when Vick is actually consistent... I'll be enjoying this deep sleep!
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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define better. it's so hard to claim one guy is flat out "better" than another when the talent is so close.

Cruz is better in the slot. Nicks is better on the outside. Nicks is a better red zone threat. Cruz has better numbers.
Thanks. You got exactly where I was going with this discussion/poll/argument. You guys wanna talk about who is better, but how you really determine who is the best, is the guy who has the best stats... it's not about who is the better player in terms of talent and skill.

Cruz is way above Andre Johnson according to your guys logic. I find that disturbing.

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Old 12-28-2011, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Thanks. You got exactly where I was going with this discussion/poll/argument. You guys wanna talk about who is better, but how you really determine who is the best, is the guy who has the best stats... it's not about who is the better player in terms of talent and skill.

Cruz is way above Andre Johnson according to your guys logic. I find that disturbing.
No because Andre Johnson has both the physical attributes and the history of consistent production. Dez doesn't have anything but the physical attributes yet. And Nicks isn't as consistent, as I would have hoped for him to be this year. Too many drops.

You just like to debate for the sake of debating and it just goes around in circles.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Both Cruz and Dez need to prove themselves. Both for different reasons. Cruz needs to show he can still produce these numbers when he's getting #1WR coverages, and Dez needs to show some production bc right now he's not producing at an elite level.

For what it's worth, Rob Ryan felt that Cruz was our better WR, and doubled Cruz the entire night and gave Nicks the single coverage. That night Nicks 8 catches for 163 yards and Cruz had 6 for 74.

Eli is going to hit the guy in single coverage. So Cruz has better numbers than Nicks bc most teams are sliding coverages towards Nicks.

However, that game shows that even when Cruz is doubled, he still put up respectable numbers. 6 for 74 isn't a bad day. I've seen Cruz doubled a lot in the second half of the season and still put up great numbers.

Against the Jets, I saw him covered by Revis in the slot a couple of times too.

Cruz is legit, but he needs to show that this year wasn't just a fluke. Dez is legit too, but for Dez the argument is the opposite, he needs to produce better numbers and not just fall back on coverages dictating the ball elsewhere, bc even with that being the case, he still should have better numbers.

Either way, both need to prove themselves. I think both are great. I'd probably say Nicks is pound for pound the best WR in the division, but I like Cruz more.

Put it this way. If in a hypothetical situation, my team is down by 4 with 2 minutes left and I can choose any WR in the division to break the huddle with, I'm going with Cruz over both Nicks and Dez even though both are more gifted, bc Cruz is more dependable than both, and at this point in his career, has shown to be more capable of the big play/clutch play than both those other guys.

Cruz's athleticism is underrated. Just bc he was undrafted doesn't mean he's not an athlete. The guy is fast, he's strong, has great leaping ability and body control, great balance, can catch fades and jump balls, he can do it all. Can play inside and outside, there's nothing he can't do.

He caught a jumpball on Nmandi, it's not like his height is restricting him. He caught a jumpball on the Cowboys. Vs the Seahawks, I can cite plenty of examples.

The guy isn't limited. The only thing Nicks and Dez have over him is height, but the way he fights for the ball in the air, it really doesn't matter. He leaps over and catches passes over guys twice his size routinely.
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