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View Poll Results: Who's the best WR?
DeSean Jackson, Eagles 67 72.04%
Miles Austin, Cowboys 15 16.13%
Steve Smith, Giants 6 6.45%
Santana Moss, Redskins 1 1.08%
Mario Manningham, Giants 3 3.23%
Other 1 1.08%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-21-2009, 10:28 AM    (permalink
Supporting Caste
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Originally Posted by jblaze66 View Post
Ok so for the ppl that are talking about production lets look at the real numbers. (and since neither Austin or Smith return kicks I will leave that out but in reality it shouldnt be overlooked)

M. Austin:
65 rec
1138 rec yds + 11 rus yds= 1149 scrim yds
11 rec TDs

D. Jackson:
56 rec
1087 rec yds + 134 rus yds= 1221 scrim yds
8 rec TDs + 1 rus TD= 9 tot TDs

S. Smith (13 games):
85 rec
1053 rec yds
5 rec TDs

Now if we counted all purpose yds/TDs (415 ret yds/2 TDs) there absolutley no doubt who is the most productive player.
DeSean Jackson is the second-best WR in the NFC East and the best returner. No one would have argued with that.

But you homers insist he's the best WR. He's not.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...
Eh, Im borderline. Still wouldnt say best, but hes good.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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DeSean Jackson is the second-best WR in the NFC East and the best returner. No one would have argued with that.

But you homers insist he's the best WR. He's not.
Then how do you explain some cowboys fans saying Jackson is the best too? Look, they are both great players right now, and it's probably a matter of preference and opinion right now as to who's better. They are pretty similar players, but they also have their own qualities that make them unique. I honestly would not trade Jackson straight up for Austin and I'm sure you feel the same way about Austin. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree. This should be a pretty good thread to look back on in a year or two.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...
I never doubted Austin, I just don't think he's on the same level as Desean. Then again not many are...

Right now I'd say it goes:

1. Jackson
2. Austin
3. Smith
4. Nicks
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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If anyone wants to see how to stop Jackson COLD look at the Dallas game. Press him at the line, get a decent pass rush and it is over.

Every time I see Jackson catch a deep pass I see him get 15 yards unabated off the LOS and McNabb frequently does play action off it.

Wayyyyy too much love for Jackson. Very nice player but more a function of poor D Coaching and good play calling by Reid.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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And Nicks might be the best of all.

I like him the best of any WR in the East in term of potential.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Jackson and Austin are different types of receivers. Helloooo....
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77 View Post
Look, they are both great players right now, and it's probably a matter of preference and opinion right now as to who's better.
Well, I respect you for being able to change your assertion to something like this. It's much more reasonable, though I think the results of this season still show otherwise.

Quote:
They are pretty similar players, but they also have their own qualities that make them unique.
LOL, you really haven't seen Austin play, have you? The guy is 6-3, 215 and can do everything. Jackson is small and is a deep route and open-field specialist.

Quote:
I honestly would not trade Jackson straight up for Austin and I'm sure you feel the same way about Austin.
I don't think I would advise the Eagles to do that, either, just because you have something that works. There's no guarantee that Austin would work as well with McNabb/fit into the scheme as well as Jackson/etc., so it wouldn't be worth the risk.

I think Austin would be better, but I guess I would just take the conservative route in that dilemma.

I don't know how Jackson keeps winding up uncovered 15 yards past the defense, but as long as it keeps happening, there would be no reason to mess with it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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And Nicks might be the best of all.

I like him the best of any WR in the East in term of potential.
yeah, same. It makes the absolutely sick that the Giants got him and we got Roy ******* Williams.

GOD DAMMIT JERRY.

Ugh. Nicks reminds me so much of Irvin, always did. ******* lame.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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LOL, you really haven't seen Austin play, have you? The guy is 6-3, 215 and can do everything. Jackson is small and is a deep route and open-field specialist.
I don't mean they are similar in size, but they are both fast/good playmakers and excellent after the catch, while Jackson is faster and more elusive, Austin is more physical and is great at breaking arm tackles and stuff like that. (I'm not gonna lie, I thought Austin was closer to 6'0 than 6'3). Honestly, the reason we both might feel the way we do is I might value the qualities Jackson brings to the field while you value a more physical receiver.
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Old 12-21-2009, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Really, what I value more than anything is touchdowns. Just score points.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77 View Post
I don't mean they are similar in size, but they are both fast/good playmakers and excellent after the catch, while Jackson is faster and more elusive, Austin is more physical and is great at breaking arm tackles and stuff like that. (I'm not gonna lie, I thought Austin was closer to 6'0 than 6'3). Honestly, the reason we both might feel the way we do is I might value the qualities Jackson brings to the field while you value a more physical receiver.
Here is the value that the Cowboys' fan can not accept Jackson is better WR in 2009:

Austin Jackson

TD 11 8
1st down 48 36
YAC 523 326
Can do run block Yes Maybe
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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yeah, same. It makes the absolutely sick that the Giants got him and we got Roy ******* Williams.

GOD DAMMIT JERRY.

Ugh. Nicks reminds me so much of Irvin, always did. ******* lame.
Yes he do remain me of Irvin a lot plus little more speed.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Miles Austin has better stats and less starts than Desean Jackson. 'Nough said.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Miles Austin has better stats and less starts than Desean Jackson. 'Nough said.
Right. That's a very even comparison. It's not like Austin had three years to sit and learn from other receivers while Jackson was thrown into the fire right away or anything. Hey, if we're going to make completely unbalanced and ridiculous comparisons, let's try this on for size.

First two seasons of career.

DeSean Jackson- 118 catches, 1,999 yards, 16.9 yards per catch, 10 touchdowns, 1 rush TD, 3 punt return TDs.

Miles Austin- 5 catches, 76 yards, 15.2 yards per catch, 0 TD

Last edited by Sniper : 12-22-2009 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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At what point do you draw the line? There's plenty of receivers that don't make an impact until years after they're drafted. The topic is: The best WR in the NFC east. Whatever route they took to get to them being the "best" is moot and pointless.

I really don't have an opinion enough to argue back and forth...but based purely on stats...Miles Austin is better than Desean Jackson as a receiver in less starts this year, which is what the poster stated. So yes...it's a fair comparison.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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You people should know that stats don't make the player. Based on ability & attributes, how would you grade them?

Size:
Speed:
Catching:
Route Running:
Physicality:
Blocking:
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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You people should know that stats don't make the player. Based on ability & attributes, how would you grade them?

Size:
Speed:
Catching:
Route Running:
Physicality:
Blocking:
The problem is stats is the only fact based measurable. As seen, people will rationalize their opinion regardless. At that point nothing can be argued.

Just using that grading system, I'd rate it as:
Size: Austin
Speed: Jackson
Catching: Austin
Route Running: Austin
Physicality: Austin
Blocking: Austin

But a Desean fan could go the opposite for every category except Size(and even that can be argued to be pro-desean).

Stats is the only way to measure that takes opinion out of it.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Poor Steve Smith has the most receptions in the NFC and is 3rd most in yardage and he can't even get into the conversation because he's not "explosive" like the other two.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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The problem is stats is the only fact based measurable. As seen, people will rationalize their opinion regardless. At that point nothing can be argued.

Just using that grading system, I'd rate it as:
Size: Austin
Speed: Jackson
Catching: Austin
Route Running: Austin
Physicality: Austin
Blocking: Austin

But a Desean fan could go the opposite for every category except Size(and even that can be argued to be pro-desean).

Stats is the only way to measure that takes opinion out of it.
But stats aren't based off equal ground. Stats NEVER tell the full truth. Stats are dependent on team play.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Size:Miles Austin
Speed: DeSean Jackson
Catching: DeSean Jackson
Route Running: DeSean Jackson
Physicality: Miles Austin
Blocking: ??? Probably Miles Austin but DeSean actually does block
----

Elusiveness: DeSean Jackson
Big Play Threat: DeSean Jackson
Ability to create seperation: DeSean Jackson

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Old 12-22-2009, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Jizz in my pants factor- DeSean Jackson.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:14 PM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
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FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Size:Miles Austin
Speed: DeSean Jackson
Catching: DeSean Jackson
Route Running: DeSean Jackson
Physicality: Miles Austin
Blocking: ??? Probably Miles Austin but DeSean actually does block
----

Elusiveness: DeSean Jackson
Big Play Threat: DeSean Jackson
Ability to create seperation: DeSean Jackson
Yea...See D-Unit?
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:25 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Size:Miles Austin
Speed: DeSean Jackson
Catching: DeSean Jackson
Route Running: DeSean Jackson
Physicality: Miles Austin
Blocking: ??? Probably Miles Austin but DeSean actually does block
----

Elusiveness: DeSean Jackson
Big Play Threat: DeSean Jackson
Ability to create seperation: DeSean Jackson
I think you all missed the point.

Austin
Size: 9
Speed: 9
Elusiveness: 7
Catching: 8
Route Running: 8
Physicality: 9
Blocking: 8
Total: 58

Jackson
Size: 6
Speed: 10
Elusiveness: 10
Catching: 9
Route Running: 10
Physicality: 6
Blocking: 7
Total: 58

No coincidence at all, but I came out with both of them being equal. lol.

Big play threat and separation are not really abiliities. It's like saying being a redzone target is an ability as well. They are combinations of abilities. I do think Elusiveness can be an ability though.
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