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Old 12-04-2009, 05:58 AM    (permalink
JFLO
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It's definitely Revis...for some reason, I've been getting more Oakland games this year and Nnamdi's performance hasn't been as good this season as it was last year or the year before.

Also, if DRC is the a top 3 corner, then Antoine Winfield is #1, but that is only in "Homer World", right?
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:28 AM    (permalink
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Revis is a great corner, he completely blanketed Moss the first time we played them this year and got Randy really frusturated. Revis is a pretty quiet guy too, but he did make exception to Moss not really respecting him and was jaqing at him throughout the game. Revis is definitely a top tier defender in the NFL; he has size, athleticism, ball skills, and is a competitor.

Aso is right there with Revis, he just is in a tough spot in Oakland. He was the epitomy of a shutdown corner last year, I haven't seen much of the Raiders and he may have regressed a bit, but he and Revis are probably 1A and 1B as others here have said.

Charles Woodson is older but he is playing at such a high level, not only can he take a top receiver out of the game but he still has the ability to make huge plays whether is be a game clinching diving pick or a sack. One of my personal favorite players in the league. Champ may not be the same player he was 5 years ago but he still needs to be mentioned in this discussion.

The last guy who could be mentioned in this top tier (could be forgetting someone) is Asante. Every Pats fan, player, and coach knew how big losing him would be no matter what anyone says; he was going to be our shutdown guy entering his prime but as in years passed we refused to pay him and this time it really bit us in the ass.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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Calvin could barely walk on Thanksgiving, plus he caught a TD pass. But yeah keep using that game as a benchmark
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JFLO View Post
It's definitely Revis...for some reason, I've been getting more Oakland games this year and Nnamdi's performance hasn't been as good this season as it was last year or the year before.

Also, if DRC is the a top 3 corner, then Antoine Winfield is #1, but that is only in "Homer World", right?
I think Feniekz is just sticking with DRC because he has been saying him for a long time so he wants to stay consistent, anyone being rational or honest with themselves knows DRC's name should be nowhere near best corner in the league period.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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An interesting stat to use in seeing how good Revis is:

in 6 and a half years Nnamdi has 11 INTs and 1 TD
In 2 and a half years Revis has 13 INTs and 2 TDs.

Then take into account Revis will shadow the top guy pretty much every snap makes this a relatively easy decision at this point
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
An interesting stat to use in seeing how good Revis is:

in 6 and a half years Nnamdi has 11 INTs and 1 TD
In 2 and a half years Revis has 13 INTs and 2 TDs.

Then take into account Revis will shadow the top guy pretty much every snap makes this a relatively easy decision at this point
interceptions are as useless of a stat as tackles
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:49 AM    (permalink
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Yea they are if the CB is consistently giving up big plays. As I mentioned earlier Revis does almost as good a job shutting WRs down as Aso but makes more big plays. Plus tackles only stop the play, INTs stop the whole opposing team on that drive and can potentially get you TDs or very good field position. A tackle for a 2 yd gain is hardly the same as an INT returned for a TD
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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Yea they are if the CB is consistently giving up big plays. As I mentioned earlier Revis does almost as good a job shutting WRs down as Aso but makes more big plays. Plus tackles only stop the play, INTs stop the whole opposing team on that drive and can potentially get you TDs or very good field position. A tackle for a 2 yd gain is hardly the same as an INT returned for a TD
Interceptions are never a good way to measure anything.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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Interceptions are never a good way to measure anything.
Yea I fully agree, however when using them as an added bonus always helps. If two players are almost identical except one gets more INTs then it puts them slightly ahead.

Ed Reed would not be thought of as highly without all his INTs and returns even though he would still be awesome.

As a measuring stick INTs aren't good however as a tiebreaker I think it is perfectlly acceptable
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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the thing is that they are two CBs, with 2 different assignements, different surroundings.
Just saying Revis is better because he has more Ints over his career in a shorter time is laughable considering that Aso had like 2 ints the year were only 40 passes were thrown to his side.
You have Interceptions that you compare over their careers as a measuring stick for how they are doing right now because right now they are both great at covering.

And no im not saying Revis is worse. he is 1a/b or whatever. But interceptions are not a measuring stick ever for me. Most of them are lucky anyways and not great plays by the CB, unless its someone called Polamalu.

Ed Reed and his returns on the other hand is something else. Returning an interception you can compare their vision, their patience to set up blocks and such things.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Anyone who mentions Asante as being up there with Aso, Woodson, and Revis is horribly mistaken his ability. He cannot tackle worth a damn and most, if not all, of his interceptions have been in zone coverage. The same coverage that he got paid for. Not saying he isn't a respectable corner and playmaker but he isn't very good man to man. Not even the best on his team. I know Sniper has been driving this bandwagon for a while now but after watching a couple Eagles games this year, I have to agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC.SD - right again View Post
Maybe in terms of pure gooey shutdownness but as to who the best corner is this year, you have to give it to Woodson.
Woodson has been pretty unbelievable. You're going to start hearing his name less and less as teams target away from him with Harris shut down for the season.

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I still give it to Nnamdi.
Why?

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Calvin could barely walk on Thanksgiving, plus he caught a TD pass. But yeah keep using that game as a benchmark
http://www.nfl.com/videos/detroit-li...-1-yard-TD-rec

Listen to the commentary. Really a hard route to cover. You would have to think with a target as big as Calvin that they were gonna try a fade but it was a great play.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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I have to say, that draft ended up being a pretty damn good draft for CB's.

Revis
Leon Hall
Aaron Ross
Chris Houston
Eric Wright

Plus Brandon Meriweather at safety.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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If the Jets were any good Revis would be in the defensive player of the year discussion.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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How old is Woodson now? You guys really expect him to keep up this type of play for another 2-3 years?
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I said this 1-2 weeks ago and I feel exactly the same now: Revis and Woodson are the top 2, neither is decidedly better than the other. When it comes down to shutting down a receiver, Revis is better, but Woodson moves all over the field and carries his defense (BTW, the Packers are the #1 defense right now, mostly because Woodson put the team on his back since the Cowboys game). Their overall impact on a game is close. Revis is the elite cover corner, Woodson is a very, very good cover corner. Nnamdi is overrated. He plays for the Raiders. He's top 5 good but not in the discussion for the best.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I'd go..


1. Darrelle Revis
2. Nnamdi
3. Charles Woodson
4. Sheldon Brown
5. Johnathan Joseph

- I think you have a couple guys you could throw into those 4 & 5 spots, but Brown and Joseph, IMO, are the two best. I think Sheldon's the best corner on his team, and I think Asante's interception total prevents people from seeing just how good a player Sheldon is. Asante is the big play guy, Brown's the one that does everything right. One of my favorite tackling corners as well. As for J-Jo, he's been a blanket in man coverage and has made big plays in big situations for the Bengals this season.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Nnamdi is not overrated if you want to argue he is not the best any more fine but to say he is not in the discussion is a joke.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
the thing is that they are two CBs, with 2 different assignements, different surroundings.
Just saying Revis is better because he has more Ints over his career in a shorter time is laughable considering that Aso had like 2 ints the year were only 40 passes were thrown to his side.
You have Interceptions that you compare over their careers as a measuring stick for how they are doing right now because right now they are both great at covering.

And no im not saying Revis is worse. he is 1a/b or whatever. But interceptions are not a measuring stick ever for me. Most of them are lucky anyways and not great plays by the CB, unless its someone called Polamalu.

Ed Reed and his returns on the other hand is something else. Returning an interception you can compare their vision, their patience to set up blocks and such things.
Come on man, just luck? Sure every CB has a few lucky ones over his career but to say that most of them are just luck is ridiculous.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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interceptions are as useless of a stat as tackles
There not useless if your not basing your entire argument off of them. I get the point your trying to make, but you just cannot ignore Revis is a play-maker and when the ball is thrown in his area that he can go up over the WR and make the leaping INT, majority of those are anything but luck.


I know Aso wasn't thrown at much so it shouldn't be a knock against him at all, but in no way should you discredit the amount that Revis has or consider them useless.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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DRC? LOL wut?
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Revis has made some very nice plays. I've seen a ton of him and he really is just superb. I mean there are the lucky off Smith's leg bounce INT's, but still, many are great plays. His one against NE part 1 was a very nice over the shoulder pick. I mean, dude's a stud, this coming from a Giants and Rutgers homer talking about a Jets player from Pitt...
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Let's take deltha o'neal in 2000 (iirc).
Every time someone brings up ints as an argument as for who is the best CB I think of this.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Yes.

1. Revis
1a. Woodson

And they are close. Woodson may not be in his prime with the potential to get better but the guy is playing lights out right now. Give me my choice of the two for the playoff run and I'll take Woodson. Give me my choice for the playoff run and the future and I'll take Revis.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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i'm not suggesting that revis' were bad picks. but let's take deltha o'neal in 2000 (iirc). literally EVERY single int he had was the result of a bad pass, he never had to make a play on the ball. but because he ended up with like, 10 ints, he was suddenly talked about as a "top" CB. in that case, the ints were completely irrelevant in the discussion of his ability, because it took next to no ability to get them.

like i said, i have seen roughly 1.2 quarters of jets football since week one, so i have no idea how "good" revis' picks were. but the idea that they can always even be somewhat relevant is just not true.

I remember that year he had which is a great point in light of using INT's as the base of your argument, just in this case Revis has at least shown he can play great man to man coverage and limit some all-pro WR's like Randy Moss and Andre Johnson with his pure coverage ability. Then when you throw in the INT rate, and how at least some of them are made by him making a great play on the ball in the air I think it's relevant.



I feel like if you can display great coverage ability and limit a great WR, as well as make a play on the ball that should be all taken into account, some DB's don't have the presence or hands to be able to do those types of things outside of just coverage.


That's still a very impressive INT total for Revis though, especially when you consider that teams know how good he is now, he'll have the fluke plays like vs Carolina of course but I have seen a few that show how good of a complete corner he is.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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DRC over Woodson? Ugh. Don't even know where to start. I'm about the defend a Packer, let me get my vomit bag ready.
Don't be sick that you're able to see football somewhat objectively. Woodson is likely going to win DPOY if he keeps up his play. The funny part is that Woodson is just getting noticed for his play in Green Bay this season. He's been playing great since here got there, yet few people took notice.


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Yes.

1. Revis
1a. Woodson
Agreed.
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