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Old 12-05-2009, 01:56 PM    (permalink
katnip
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Like alot have said, Revis, Asomugha, Woodson (not my order).

I really thought Antonio Cromartie would be elite by now. All the physical tools. Any Chargers fans want to enlighten me on why he's not considered up there?
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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I really thought Antonio Cromartie would be elite by now. All the physical tools. Any Chargers fans want to enlighten me on why he's not considered up there?

Probably the same reason his cousin DRC isn't elite yet. Physical tools out of this world but mental lapses. I know Cro was hurt for awhile but he seems like he'll just make an amazing play here and there and get torched on consistent coverage. Brandon Marshall comes to mind as eating him alive on numerous occasions which should never happen. He just never developed and refined his game from what I saw, he relies on his athletic ability 99% of the time with no technique.


Same for DRC, he's not as bad, but he could still develop into an elite type of guy but he's nowhere close yet, he'll still get burned too often throughout the course of a game.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Probably the same reason his cousin DRC isn't elite yet. Physical tools out of this world but mental lapses. I know Cro was hurt for awhile but he seems like he'll just make an amazing play here and there and get torched on consistent coverage. Brandon Marshall comes to mind as eating him alive on numerous occasions which should never happen. He just never developed and refined his game from what I saw, he relies on his athetic ability 99% of the time with no technique.
sounds so much like DeAngelo Hall.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Honestly what game are you guys watching DRC is a beast
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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so my Rutgers homerism makes me wrong when i'm DEFENDING a player from a RIVAL Pitt school?

oh, and I'm a Giants fan DEFENDING a Jets player. epic Buf fan fail
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but Johnathan Joseph has been the Bengals best corner this season. He was the last two seasons as well, though plagued by injuries and poor hands. He's been one of the league's three or four best in man coverage and has taken receivers out of games. His five interceptions have come from mostly good coverage, though the pick 6 vs. Pittsburgh was more him reading a miscommunication and keeping an eye on the Quarterback. J-Jo's hands have gotten much better this year, though we're still talking about a guy that has had about 5 or 6 legitimate Int chances go right through his hands. Leon Hall's very good, a bit more physical and can cover the bigger receivers, he has longer arms and makes plays on the ball. The duo does, however, sometimes struggle in zone coverage where the Bengals D often looks far too soft. We're not deep enough at CB, so teams that utilize 4 WR sets can give us fits (see: Houston).

Both these two are very good, challenging (but not quite up to) Sheldon Brown and Asante Samuel as the top duo in football.

Not trying to call you out, or show you up here on your personal rankings, but I thought it may help to get some feedback from a Bengals fan that has gotten to see every game.
This was in ESPN Magazine a couple weeks ago, they're the numbers of Leon Hall's assignments this season. No idea how he's done since then, but I'm guessing since he's gone up against Oakland and Cleveland, he's probably done well.

1. Brandon Marshall (DEN)
Attempts: 2
Completions: 0
Yards: 0
TD: 0
YPA: 0

2. Greg Jennings (GB)
Attempts: 4
Completions: 0
Yards: 0
TD: 0
YPA: 0

3. Santonio Holmes (PIT)
Attempts: 3
Completions: 1
Yards: 18
TD: 0
YPA: 6.0

4. Braylon Edwards (CLE)
Attempts: 1
Completions: 0
Yards: 0
TD: 0
YPA: 0

5/9. Derrick Mason (BAL) (they combined the two games in the article)
Attempts: 4
Completions: 1
Yards: 12
TD: 0
YPA: 3.0

6. Andre Johnson (HOU)
Attempts: 6
Completions: 4
Yards: 39
TD: 0
YPA: 6.5

7. Devin Hester (CHI)
Attempts: 3
Completions: 2
Yards: 28
TD:0
YPA: 9.3

TOTAL
Attempts: 23
Completions: 8
Yards: 97
TD: 0
YPA: 4.2
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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so who was leon hall covering on marshall's 4 catches in that game? no one?
The Bengals don't have a player shadow a receiver. They feel comfortable with either corner going against any receiver, so they have them play one side of the field all game. Leon plays the right side, J Joe the left. Its the way Marvin prefers it.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I'd go Charles Woodson #1, Revis #2, and Asomugha #3. Woodson is a little more well-rounded than Revis in my opinion because he can rush the passer, defend better against the run than pretty much anyone, press, drop into zone, man up on a defender...I would consider him a contender for defensive player of the year so far (54 tackles, 2 sacks, 7 INT, 4 FF, 11 PD, 2 TD.) Revis is just a phenomenal corner as well who has a pretty well-rounded game. His man coverage is a little better than Woodson's in my opinion. Asomugha is third because I think he benefits a lot from the rest of the Raiders mediocre defense - why throw at a good cornerback when you can throw at an average one? It's also very easy to run on the Raiders, and you can still involve your #1 wide receiver in a game because Asomugha does not move from the left side. He's not a guy who will follow a top receiver around the field.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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It's also very easy to run on the Raiders, and you can still involve your #1 wide receiver in a game because Asomugha does not move from the left side. He's not a guy who will follow a top receiver around the field.
I respect the rest of your post but I wanted to pull out this tid bit. I think it's a very fair point. People use the defense a lot for Asomugha that he doesn't get thrown at very often but like you said, why would you?

He's not versatile enough to be considered the best cornerback. Throw the stats out of the window for a second. Why is it that Aso only stays on one side? Does he not feel comfortable on the other side? Was he always like this, earlier in his career and in college? It doesn't make sense to me as to why you wouldn't have your top WR cover the other team's number one recieving threat the whole game.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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it is hard to argue that he is not, but if he is not then Woodson would have to be
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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I respect the rest of your post but I wanted to pull out this tid bit. I think it's a very fair point. People use the defense a lot for Asomugha that he doesn't get thrown at very often but like you said, why would you?

He's not versatile enough to be considered the best cornerback. Throw the stats out of the window for a second. Why is it that Aso only stays on one side? Does he not feel comfortable on the other side? Was he always like this, earlier in his career and in college? It doesn't make sense to me as to why you wouldn't have your top WR cover the other team's number one recieving threat the whole game.
its because thats how the Raiders system works. thats how the played when woodson was there
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Ahem...

I've recognized his greatness since I had him on Madden 04.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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its because thats how the Raiders system works. thats how the played when woodson was there
Actually, that's how lots of defenses work. As someone just mentioned, that's how the Bengals defense works too.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't make much sense to me is all.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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And to think, I wanted him, Aaron Ross and Michael Griffin over Tye Hill. And what the Rams get? Tye Hill, FML.

I should start hacking into the Rams park and picking who I want, always turns out good/great.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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And to think, I wanted him, Aaron Ross and Michael Griffin over Tye Hill. And what the Rams get? Tye Hill, FML.

I should start hacking into the Rams park and picking who I want, always turns out good/great.
Tye Hill wasnt even in their draft class
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Tye Hill wasnt even in their draft class
Damn't, that was Adam Carriker, FML. I've got to re-do my entire rant.

Either way, I wanted Revis, not who we got.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't make much sense to me is all.
I don't see which part of that is confusing...

Aso is still this best, especially when taking all things in to consideration. Raiders play man-to-man coverage on just about every play, thats the defense they've played since the 70s and 80s and thats the defense they're going to continue to play until Al Davis dies. They have no pass rush, he gets very little safety help, and still shuts down his guy on a consistent basis. Teams do not throw in his direction anymore, they haven't thrown in his direction on a consistent basis since 06, the year he got 8 picks. Aso could make the same plays Revis makes if he played in that system. He really should have left the Raiders, they're pushing his career in to obscurity.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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I find it weird how Revis shut down all the best receivers in the game but allowed a lot of catches to the Titan receivers with Kerry Collins.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Revis and Woodson are having better seasons, but if I had to pick one corner back for one game, I think I'll still take Asomugha because of his track record. I try not to overreact on a season-to-season basis, so I'd like to see Revis play at this level for one more season. Revis was very good his first two years and now is playing phenomenal. On the other hand, Asomugha was all-world the previous two years and is still elite this year. Revis has given up two touchdowns this year, which is the same amount of touchdowns that Asomugha has given up the past three years.

To me there is a difference between being the best in the game at your position and having the best season. I know some people will disagree, but that's how I feel. I think Revis is having the best season (as far as coverage goes) but I'll still take Nnamdi as the best at his position at least until next season.

For what it's worth, I thought Champ Bailey was still the best corner in the league after the 2007 season despite being outplayed by Asomugha that year.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team. Can anybody name a more versatile Cornerback in the last ten years? Nah. I think Charles and Rod Woodson were separated at birth.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I find it weird how Revis shut down all the best receivers in the game but allowed a lot of catches to the Titan receivers with Kerry Collins.
Justin Gage had 3 catches for 28 yards that game
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team. Can anybody name a more versatile Cornerback in the last ten years? Nah. I think Charles and Rod Woodson were separated at birth.
Bigger elite corners typically do and Nnamdi has done so for as long as I can remember. The year of Nnamdi's breakout ('06) he had 8 INTs and since then no team has dared to test him. He can be a playmaker and he consistently makes plays in the backfield, just never was utilized creatively in our predictable defenses.

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Old 12-05-2009, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team.
No, Jason Witten. You may not have a touchdown against Charles Woodson (PBHN). He will now be taking His ball back.
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team. Can anybody name a more versatile Cornerback in the last ten years? Nah. I think Charles and Rod Woodson were separated at birth.
To be fair, this isn't unheard of for Nnamdi. Last year, in the home game against Kansas City, Oakland did peel Nnamdi off the left side of the defense to cover Tony Gonzalez because Gonzalez was absolutely killing the defense. And to KC's credit, they kept tossing the ball to Gonzalez and he was able to block out Asomugha and make great catches.

This was during the period of last season when Chris Johnson was just killing it though. He had just come off an amazing game versus Denver, so Oakland felt it had more versatility to let Aso play inside.
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