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Old 12-09-2009, 07:02 PM    (permalink
JT Jag
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
athletes selling textbooks and pocketing the money
Please find me any proof that Alabama was ever charged with this specifically.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
Yes, we can agree that I've come to a conclusion that it's highly unlikely it was just a random girl with a sign, because a player in question has been quoted as having stated that his friends knew her well enough for her to have a big impact on their decision, and that he personally found her to be nice and cool.

I'm so irrational, forgive me.
Yes, let's take Marcus Lattimore's word for it over Corey Miller and Brandon Willis'. Not to mention at least one of the two recruits parents.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VoodooMonkey View Post
Yes, let's take Marcus Lattimore's word for it over Corey Miller and Brandon Willis'. Not to mention at least one of the two recruits parents.
What did Corey Miller, Brandon Willis, or the parents say that contradict my conclusion? Please enlighten me. And to add, what did Corey Miller and Brandon Willis say at all? Are you pulling your info from an unstated article, as only the parent and Lattimore are quoted in the ESPN article?
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
lol, use of hostesses to sway recruits is a lot more than a minor violation, and that's exactly what you're under investigation for.
Lattimore didn't say anything. He said the girls were pretty, nice, and cool, and that they had "a lot" (Dunno what context that was in or if that's the full quote, part of the quote, or just a short answer) to do with Miller and Willis committing. It's the "a lot" comment that allows the reader to think it's something bigger than just sign waving, and the writer does a good job of leading the reader to that impression.

If they are bumpin' uglies, I find it hard to believe that Lattimore would rat out his friends/team mates like that. *shrug*

Besides...there ain't nothing wrong (nothin' wroooong) with a little bump 'n grind (with a lil bump 'n griiiiiiiind).
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
Lattimore didn't say anything. He said the girls were pretty, nice, and cool, and that they had "a lot" (Dunno what context that was in or if that's the full quote, part of the quote, or just a short answer) to do with Miller and Willis committing. It's the "a lot" comment that allows the reader to think it's something bigger than just sign waving, and the writer does a good job of leading the reader to that impression.

If they are bumpin' uglies, I find it hard to believe that Lattimore would rat out his friends/team mates like that. *shrug*

Besides...there ain't nothing wrong (nothin' wroooong) with a little bump 'n grind (with a lil bump 'n griiiiiiiind).
How so? I'm pretty sure Lattimore did that all by himself.

Now it's the biased media...
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
What did Corey Miller, Brandon Willis, or the parents say that contradict my conclusion? Please enlighten me. And to add, what did Corey Miller and Brandon Willis say at all? Are you pulling your info from an unstated article, as only the parent and Lattimore are quoted in the ESPN article?
Oh I don't know specifically about Miller or Willis, but do you honestly think they're gonna say that they committed to Tennessee because of some hostesses and that they might have had sex with them? I figure since people are making baseless assumptions in this thread, I'll just go ahead and assume the Miller and Willis will say that Lattimore is misunderstood. hehe
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VoodooMonkey View Post
Oh I don't know specifically about Miller or Willis, but do you honestly think they're gonna say that they committed to Tennessee because of some hostesses and that they might have had sex with them? I figure since people are making baseless assumptions in this thread, I'll just go ahead and assume the Miller and Willis will say that Lattimore is misunderstood. hehe
So basically, you have nothing that contradicts my conclusion? What about the parent you said also contradicted my conclusion?

And I'm guess you're calling my assumption baseless, so please explain how direct quotes from a player involved is not a 'base'.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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So basically, you have nothing that contradicts my conclusion?
And you have nothing to contradict mine except for your great instincts apparently.

Quote:
What about the parent you said also contradicted my conclusion?
Willis' dad has already said that hostesses had little to no bearing on their commitment. I'll take his word for it over Lattimore's at this point considering there's zero proof at this point except for "intuition".

Quote:
And I'm guess you're calling my assumption baseless, so please explain how direct quotes from a player involved is not a 'base'.
No, how about you explain to me how Marcus Lattimore, firstly, has any more credibility than the father of one of the other players who disagrees with Lattimore. Secondly, please explain why the comments Lattimore made suggest that the hostesses did anything other than hold up a sign at a high school game.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Hostesses have been a part of UT's recruitment program for awhile and we aren't the only school that does it. Everyone wants to put UT under a microscope because Kiffin likes to talk and has had secondary recruiting violations already. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Georgia, Alabama, LSU, and Flordia all had secondary violations too.

This really isn't a big deal. The way I understand it is that two of the players were already UT commits, and she was there waving a sign for the 3rd player. She probably introduced herself and talked to him as well, no surprise there.

Students in Orange Pride are paid; but not by the athletic department, it comes straight from the University and its in the form of scholarship, not cash. It's part of the reason I am applying to be part of the ambassador's program next spring. The coaching staff did not arrange this either. I'm in other student groups now and if I went to a game of a recruit singing Rocky Top and telling him to come to Tennessee would that be a violation? For all we know that's all that happened, and until some concrete evidence comes up no assumptions should be made.

No one cared about these "hostesses" when we were off the map, but now that we're headed in the right direction people want to bring UT back down. And I think its a good thing because recruits all across the nation are going to be watching ESPN and other forms of the media and see our hostesses. I guarantee that draws interest from anyone. Lacey Pearl Earps should be in the Hot Chick Thread.

This comes straight from www.utk.edu

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Comprised of 55 of the University of Tennessee’s outstanding sophomore, junior, and senior students, the Orange Pride is a group whose primary duty is to promote The University of Tennessee—its strong academic programs, its rich traditions, and its winning athletic programs—to campus visitors and potential student athletes. Members of the Orange Pride welcome UT’s guests, serve as tour guides, and assist the Undergraduate Admissions Office with student recruitment and the campus visit program.

Orange Pride members are committed to recruiting academic and athletic champions!
That's clear as day, their job is to promote the University. That's what she was doing. Not a big deal.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Hostesses have been a part of UT's recruitment program for awhile and we aren't the only school that does it. Everyone wants to put UT under a microscope because Kiffin likes to talk and has had secondary recruiting violations already. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Georgia, Alabama, LSU, and Flordia all had secondary violations too.

This really isn't a big deal. The way I understand it is that two of the players were already UT commits, and she was there waving a sign for the 3rd player. She probably introduced herself and talked to him as well, no surprise there.

Students in Orange Pride are paid; but not by the athletic department, it comes straight from the University and its in the form of scholarship, not cash. It's part of the reason I am applying to be part of the ambassador's program next spring. The coaching staff did not arrange this either. I'm in other student groups now and if I went to a game of a recruit singing Rocky Top and telling him to come to Tennessee would that be a violation? For all we know that's all that happened, and until some concrete evidence comes up no assumptions should be made.

No one cared about these "hostesses" when we were off the map, but now that we're headed in the right direction people want to bring UT back down. And I think its a good thing because recruits all across the nation are going to be watching ESPN and other forms of the media and see our hostesses. I guarantee that draws interest from anyone. Lacey Pearl Earps should be in the Hot Chick Thread.

This comes straight from www.utk.edu



That's clear as day, their job is to promote the University. That's what she was doing. Not a big deal.
No! Please! Stop this mindless logic! Surely we can come to the conclusion that Tennessee is wrong in this situation even though there is no proof to support this at all. Surely they deserve the death penalty.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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And you have nothing to contradict mine except for your great instincts apparently.
If you're referring to your assumptions on what Willis and Miller will said, you also have nothing to bring any credibility to yours, as you admitted, so there's no reason to even attempt to contradict it...

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Originally Posted by VoodooMonkey View Post
Willis' dad has already said that hostesses had little to no bearing on their commitment. I'll take his word for it over Lattimore's at this point considering there's zero proof at this point except for "intuition".
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Originally Posted by VoodooMonkey View Post
No, how about you explain to me how Marcus Lattimore, firstly, has any more credibility than the father of one of the other players who disagrees with Lattimore.
Please provide the link to the article you're referring to, as surely it's not this one. Why isn't it this one? Willis' dad didn't comment either way on whether the hostesses influenced his son's decision;

Quote:
Gary Willis, Brandon Willis' father, said the NCAA had interviewed his son about the hostesses' visit to the game, according to the Times. Gary Willis said the girls met his son at Tennessee's football camp last summer and told him they would be attending one of his games. He also said the trip was not arranged by Tennessee coaches or staff.
Nope, nothing there about whether the hostesses influenced his son's decision or not. So again, please provide your link to your article.

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Originally Posted by VoodooMonkey View Post
Secondly, please explain why the comments Lattimore made suggest that the hostesses did anything other than hold up a sign at a high school game.
Maybe I'm a crazy, but I don't think a person with a sign heavily influences a commitment, nor does it show whether they're nice and cool or not. But you're right; signs at HS games are the most effective recruiting tools, and you can completely find out if they're nice and cool by the way they wrote the sign and how they're holding.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't believe any of the big programs recruit cleanly, its just who gets caught.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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just 'cause she got your dick wet, doesnt mean you have to play there.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
Hostesses have been a part of UT's recruitment program for awhile and we aren't the only school that does it. Everyone wants to put UT under a microscope because Kiffin likes to talk and has had secondary recruiting violations already. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Georgia, Alabama, LSU, and Flordia all had secondary violations too.
Thank you, I forgot that LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida were directly related to whether the hostesses were or weren't violating recruiting rules.

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This really isn't a big deal. The way I understand it is that two of the players were already UT commits, and she was there waving a sign for the 3rd player. She probably introduced herself and talked to him as well, no surprise there.
You left out the part where allegedly the two commitments you're referring to are as such because of a large contribution(simply talking recruiting, not accusing of anything more ATM) of the hostesses.

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Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
Students in Orange Pride are paid; but not by the athletic department, it comes straight from the University and its in the form of scholarship, not cash. It's part of the reason I am applying to be part of the ambassador's program next spring. The coaching staff did not arrange this either. I'm in other student groups now and if I went to a game of a recruit singing Rocky Top and telling him to come to Tennessee would that be a violation? For all we know that's all that happened, and until some concrete evidence comes up no assumptions should be made.
As for whether the girls were more than friends with the recruits or whether or not the coaches knew/sanctioned the meetings, yes, you're correct, no assumptions should be made. But I believe it to be completely reasonable for anyone to assume that the hostesses and recruits certainly knew each other well.

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Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
No one cared about these "hostesses" when we were off the map, but now that we're headed in the right direction people want to bring UT back down. And I think its a good thing because recruits all across the nation are going to be watching ESPN and other forms of the media and see our hostesses. I guarantee that draws interest from anyone. Lacey Pearl Earps should be in the Hot Chick Thread.
Regardless of whether you are or aren't on the map, any potential violation should be investigated, which is exactly what is happening.

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Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
This comes straight from www.utk.edu



That's clear as day, their job is to promote the University. That's what she was doing. Not a big deal.
If they're promotion was within the rules, you're correct, no big deal. But it's now being questioned, and so the investigation should hopefully clear up the truth of the matter.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JT Jag View Post
Please find me any proof that Alabama was ever charged with this specifically.
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On June 11, 2009, Alabama was sanctioned over textbook-related infractions which stretched across 16 of 19 sports. Students used their athletic scholarships to improperly obtain free use of textbooks for friends. They were forced to vacate 21 wins during the Mike Shula and Nick Saban coaching eras and were put on three years probation, ending in June 2012.[105] The university stated "none of the textbooks or materials was used for profit or to get items not related to academics, and that the athletes involved who still have eligibility remaining have had to pay restitution."[106] Alabama is currently appealing the NCAA ruling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama...NCAA_sanctions
Penalties Disappoint Alabama Leaders - Scout

NCAA alleges Alabama committed major violations because of violations of its textbook disbursement policy - The Birmingham News

Alabama admits to NCAA violations over textbooks - CBS Sports

Alabama admitted to the violations, and even self-reported them. The NCAA sanctioned the university which included 3 years probation and vacating wins. Bama is currently appealing the sanctions.

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How so? I'm pretty sure Lattimore did that all by himself.

Now it's the biased media...
The media actually loves Kiffin because he's good for a quote. He obviously rubs some people the wrong way, but I don't think this is the case. I never said this was biased. I was moreso insinuating that leading the reader to a more scandalous conclusion made for a better story. It is the New York Times, after all.

Either way, the only link to this being a scandal is one comment made by one recruit in an unknown context. I'll wait for more information before I jump to the extreme of an inappropriate relationship/prostitution.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
The media actually loves Kiffin because he's good for a quote. He obviously rubs some people the wrong way, but I don't think this is the case. I never said this was biased. I was moreso insinuating that leading the reader to a more scandalous conclusion made for a better story. It is the New York Times, after all.

Either way, the only link to this being a scandal is one comment made by one recruit in an unknown context. I'll wait for more information before I jump to the extreme of an inappropriate relationship/prostitution.
Perhaps you could pose a context that would change the meaning of Lattimore's quotes? I really don't see how it's open to that much interpretation. Truthfully, to me, it seems like the reporter would be practically lying in order for the context to be so off base that it changed the meaning.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Please provide the link to the article you're referring to, as surely it's not this one. Why isn't it this one? Willis' dad didn't comment either way on whether the hostesses influenced his son's decision
Buuuuuut, he did say that UT made no arrangements to send the hostesses there which is the illegal thing that the NCAA would be investigating anyways.

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Maybe I'm a crazy, but I don't think a person with a sign heavily influences a commitment, nor does it show whether they're nice and cool or not.
Well, firstly we can establish that you aren't a recruit, so your opinion on whether or not the sign would influence your recruitment doesn't matter. The nice and cool thing is your opinion as well. Other people would think a college host or hostess showing up at their game and cheering for them is nice or cool.

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But you're right; signs at HS games are the most effective recruiting tools
I never said that. Lattimore did say that no other school has done that and that it was crazy. I doubt he means crazy as in a bad way. That's my assumption.

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and you can completely find out if they're nice and cool by the way they wrote the sign and how they're holding.
No, probably not. But if you're lattimore you could probably find that out from your teammates who have taken official visits there or if he happened to see them on his unofficial visit. I don't think it's crazy to assume that.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:03 PM    (permalink
Cigaro
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Buuuuuut, he did say that UT made no arrangements to send the hostesses there which is the illegal thing that the NCAA would be investigating anyways.
And that has absolutely nothing to do with Lattimore's comments, which you say it refuted. So again, what did his parent say that refuted Lattimore's comments?

To add, it has nothing to do with my conclusion either.

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Well, firstly we can establish that you aren't a recruit, so your opinion on whether or not the sign would influence your recruitment doesn't matter.
So are you saying because I'm not a five star recruit, I have absolutely no idea what a five star recruit may finding influencing? Seriously? You're reaching bro.

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The nice and cool thing is your opinion as well. Other people would think a college host or hostess showing up at their game and cheering for them is nice or cool.
Riiiiiiigggggghhhhhttttt. I could see the nice thing maybe, but when he said, " and just real cool", I'm pretty sure 99% of people wouldn't say that about a person they don't know. But you're right, I'm not a five star recruit, I couldn't possibly understand their completely different state of mind.

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I never said that. Lattimore did say that no other school has done that and that it was crazy. I doubt he means crazy as in a bad way. That's my assumption.
Yep, it was definitely the homemade signs that separated them from other schools.

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No, probably not. But if you're lattimore you could probably find that out from your teammates who have taken official visits there or if he happened to see them on his unofficial visit. I don't think it's crazy to assume that.
Yeah, because people call people that they don't know nice and cool because their friends met them. Up, oh wait, there I go again assuming I understand the different species that are five star recruits. I forgot that they don't think like normal people. My bad.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Lacey Pearl should be a paid member of the Tennessee staff. I know for a fact that she was a big part of Bryce Brown's recruitment and would not be surprised if she was involved with the Byrnes guys
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Perhaps you could pose a context that would change the meaning of Lattimore's quotes? I really don't see how it's open to that much interpretation.
It stems from him saying, "a lot." Those two words were what was quoted. The writer filled in "thinks they had ... of influence on his team mates making oral commitments." Was Lattimore like winking, nudge-nudge kind've expression when he said that. Was he joking and just making fun of his team mates being girl crazy.

He never said anything exact. It could mean countless things, so it's all left up to the reader's perspective. And I hate to say it, but having the word "oral" to follow his quote kind've sends a guy's mind into the gutter ("Oh yeah, I'd give an oral commitment to her anyday" kinda deal, lol). Maybe helps lead guy who isn't already thinking dirty thoughts about the notion of using hot hostesses for recruiting.

But yeah, that's really all I have on this topic. Just gotta wait to see if the NCAA performs a major ****-block. :D
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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You left out the part where allegedly the two commitments you're referring to are as such because of a large contribution(simply talking recruiting, not accusing of anything more ATM) of the hostesses.





Regardless of whether you are or aren't on the map, any potential violation should be investigated, which is exactly what is happening.


The hostesses have helped with the recruitment of numerous high school players. Those were not the first two. So why is it being investigated? Lacey Pearl Earps involvement with the recruitment of Bryce Brown was highly publicized and far more sketchier (sp ?) but I think the investigation of his recruitment revolved more around his fat adviser's involvement.

Oh and I don't remember the hostesses being in the news much before Kiffin got here or the media blasting her for recruiting violations like they do now. And Fulmer did have plenty of secondary violations, but its a secondary violation which really means absolutely nothing. Yeah Kiffin likes to run his mouth, but the media also likes to take a **** on UT for any reason it can think of.

I guess my point is that we must be doing something right because 1.5 years ago, no one would give a damn.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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And that has absolutely nothing to do with Lattimore's comments, which you say it refuted. So again, what did his parent say that refuted Lattimore's comments?

To add, it has nothing to do with my conclusion either.
My bad. I wasn't thinking straight. While Willis' dads comments don't refute that the hostesses are "cool" and "nice" it does refute the general idea that there is any wrong doing going on.

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So are you saying because I'm not a five star recruit, I have absolutely no idea what a five star recruit may finding influencing? Seriously? You're reaching bro.
Well, we don't know what recruiting factors will have the greatest influence on some recruits. Hell, some recruits just choose schools because of uniforms. All I'm saying is I think it's a little careless to guess that if a recruiting tool doesn't seem appealing to you, it must not be appealing to that player.

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Riiiiiiigggggghhhhhttttt. I could see the nice thing maybe, but when he said, " and just real cool", I'm pretty sure 99% of people wouldn't say that about a person they don't know.
So you've never said or thought that you think someone seems cool or nice based on what you've heard about them from other people?

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Yep, it was definitely the homemade signs that separated them from other schools.
It was an original thought that showed people in the program supported them and really would appreciate them coming to their school. While not a deciding factor, it's not a negative.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Lacey Pearl should be a paid member of the Tennessee staff. I know for a fact that she was a big part of Bryce Brown's recruitment and would not be surprised if she was involved with the Byrnes guys
She is indeed the one that this report is surrounding.

She went black and never went back.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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First, that writer should've definitely said "verbal" instead of "oral."
LOL. That's so true, for some reason I wasn't able to shake the irony from that. :D
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure it was intentional

As was the picture of Mr. Hancock
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