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Old 12-11-2009, 06:27 PM    (permalink
msolimani
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Default Best Defense in the League?

Thought it was an interesting question because the Top 3-5 are all so close statistically. These 5 teams are 1st in a few other defensive categories as well.


Top 5 in YPG allowed:
1) Green Bay Packers - 273.5
2) New York Jets - 276.4
3) Denver Broncos - 288.9
4) Cincinnati Bengals - 293.2
5) Pittsburgh Steelers - 294.1
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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there is no really dominant defense this year like the last few years. some have played good, but not a single defense like a ravens or steelers defense the last year, that id say would just take over a game.
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I would rather look at PPG then YPG.
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I was going to put up the Top 5 in a few categories but I figured it was easier to just get it going with YPG. Here's Top 5 PPG:

1) Cincinnati Bengals - 15.6
2) Indianapolis Colts - 16.8
3) Denver Broncos - 16.8
4) New York Jets - 17.3
5) Dallas Cowboys - 17.8
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Meh, PPG relies too much on the special teams play, and when your teams 'special' teams takes on a completely different meaning, you can't blame the defense.

I'd say something like yards per play and third down percentage would be a good indicator of how good a defense is.
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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I agree PPG is overrated. Look at a team like the Jets who have given an obscene amount of non-defensive TD's via Sanchez and the kickoff team.
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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How can PPG be overrated win the whole point is to score as many points as you can and stop the other team from scoring?
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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Broncos D is realllly good when they're fresh. But if the offense is struggling to move the ball, they get exposed because they're older than most, it seems, and not as deep.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Gotta look at turnovers forced as well. So many variables. I'd be interested in seeing the yards per play and third down percentage stats.

It's cool seeing the Packers as the number 1 defense when it comes to YPG but in our 4 losses, on average, we give up just under 350 PPG. Not exactly stellar.

I'd do the math on how well we did against the top offenses we've faced this year if I had the time.

We've lost to the Vikings twice (#5 offense in YPG), the Bengals (#18), and the Bucs (#27) but beat the Cowboys (#3). So I don't think it's about playing up, or down, to your competition but hitting your stride at the right time.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
How can PPG be overrated win the whole point is to score as many points as you can and stop the other team from scoring?
Let me rephrase, PPG shouldnt be talked about over YPG in terms of defense like you said. I think it is important, but as Boston said above there are other factors that lead to the PPG total that a defense can't do anything about.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Does it matter, the top 5 offensive teams this year are 41-8 according to Pat Kirwin, the top 5 defensive teams are 32-24. Defense doesn't mean as much as it used to mean.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Does it matter, the top 5 offensive teams this year are 41-8 according to Pat Kirwin, the top 5 defensive teams are 32-24. Defense doesn't mean as much as it used to mean.
Much has changed since last year where the top defense won the Superbowl

You're using one statistic in one season that's not over yet and trying to correlate that to being NFL dogma

If a defensive team wins the Superbowl, then what?

Absolutely ********

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Old 12-11-2009, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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I miss being able to throw the Ravens in this discussion thanks to this man...


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Old 12-11-2009, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by msolimani View Post
Let me rephrase, PPG shouldnt be talked about over YPG in terms of defense like you said. I think it is important, but as Boston said above there are other factors that lead to the PPG total that a defense can't do anything about.
There are also factors that lead to YPG too. What about when a team racks up a bunch of meaningless yards at the end of the game when the other team is in prevent defense at that point? There are factors on both sides of the argument either way you want to look at it.


I'd rather look at both categories and see how a team fares in both to get an idea of how good a defense really is. Still, I'd rather hold a team to as few points as possible then I would be concerned about not alot of yardage. You can lose a game holding a team to under 200 yards total if they run back INT's for TD's, special teams TD's, defensive scores etc, but keeping teams under 16 points a game is a great recipe to have a chance to win every week.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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I know this is going to come off as being a huge homer but here's the Bengals.

PPG - 1st
YPG - 4th
Rushing YPG - 1st
Passing YPG - 12th
3rd Down % - 1st
Pass Defenses - 1st
Sacks - T-10th
INT's - T-6th

Now, Peko is out probably until the season finale so I'm definitely concerned with how that is going to work out. He's the absolute key to the good run D. I'm afraid Peterson is going to have a game this Sunday.

We're sitting at 9-3 and it's not because of the offense. A lot also has to do with the Ravens/Patriots/Steelers defenses regressing this year.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather look at both categories and see how a team fares in both to get an idea of how good a defense really is.
That was kind of the idea of this thread. I wanted to see who everyone thought was the Top D in the league right now. Seems like we got a little side-tracked...
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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I know this is going to come off as being a huge homer but here's the Bengals.

PPG - 1st
YPG - 4th
Rushing YPG - 1st
Passing YPG - 12th
3rd Down % - 1st
Pass Defenses - 1st
Sacks - T-10th
INT's - T-6th

Now, Peko is out probably until the season finale so I'm definitely concerned with how that is going to work out. He's the absolute key to the good run D. I'm afraid Peterson is going to have a game this Sunday.

We're sitting at 9-3 and it's not because of the offense. A lot also has to do with the Ravens/Patriots/Steelers defenses regressing this year.
I counter with:

PPG - 9th
YPG - 1st
Rushing YPG - 4th
Passing YPG - 3rd
3rd Down % - T-2nd
Pass Defenses - T-2nd
Sacks - T-15th
INT's - T- 2nd


Both pretty impressive resumes. The Packers have finally opened up their defensive playbook and have been getting more pressure on the QB. Also done with the loss of Al Harris and Aaron Kampman with two rookies starting at OLB. Dom Capers is a genius.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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There is no elite defense to be found. Even those mentioned thus far in this thread have had terrible weeks at times; the Bengals got embarrassed at home by the Texans, the Packers twice were demolished by the Vikings.

I am not sure I have an explanation. Is it parity of talent? A lot of teams have a premier defensive player or two but no stacked units like the great defenses that we've seen earlier this decade. Maybe it is that the offenses have caught up with what defenses are doing now, we are on pace to have the most 300 passing performances ever in a season.

I will say, though, that if Troy Polamalu and Aaron Smith were healthy we would not be having this discussion. The Steelers' defense is immortal with them, fatally exposed without.
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
Much has changed since last year where the top defense won the Superbowl

You're using one statistic in one season that's not over yet and trying to correlate that to being NFL dogma

If a defensive team wins the Superbowl, then what?

Absolutely ********
Well, when I look at Pittsburgh, Arizona I see 2 franchise QB's, when I look at Eli, I see a franchise QB, ditto for Peyton and Brady. Seems like a pretty strong trend to me. By the way, didn't Eli's last drive win the SB for the Giants oh and Pittsburgh's last drive led by Rothlisberger and Holmes won the Super Bowl for them. H...mmm every strong SB contender this year seems to have a franchise QB and are responsible for that 41-8 record, but you keep going on with your theory that a defensive team alone will win another SB this year.
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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I will definitely agree on there being no dominant defense this year. Mostly because of NE/PIT/BAL falling off. The Bengals getting smoked vs. Houston was because of Peko/Odom getting hurt early, I'm curious to see how they hold up these next few games without Peko. He's just HUGE for our run D. No one gets through the middle with him there, Peterson will be a huge test.
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Old 12-12-2009, 04:13 AM    (permalink
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I'd probably roll with the Jets.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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How can PPG be overrated win the whole point is to score as many points as you can and stop the other team from scoring?
Its not overrated as an overall stat, but when seeing which defense is the best it is because you dont have to score points on the defense. I also think you have to throw average starting field postion in there somewhere.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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at some point, defenses will react and someone will come up with some new way to shut down the top offenses. the nfl will react, etc.
That's how it has been for years now. Easy example: Panthers CBs toss around WRs in the playoffs on their way to super bowl, league gets super picky about contact. Your average NFL viewer doesn't want to see great defense, they want to see high scoring games that lack slow periods of play.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ravens1991 View Post
I miss being able to throw the Ravens in this discussion thanks to this man...


They got older & slower, team youth & team speed are major factors that the Ravens seem to have overlooked recently. It happens to the best of them.

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I was going to put up the Top 5 in a few categories but I figured it was easier to just get it going with YPG. Here's Top 5 PPG:

1) Cincinnati Bengals - 15.6
And that's without sackmaster Antwan Odom who's on IR after leading the league with 5 sacks. Quite a turnaround & accomplishment for a team who's coach was on the hotseat in September, played in the same division as the #1-ranked in the preseason power rankings team, the Steelers whom they've swept, & who had it's top draft pick injured & got no help from him. Lewis is serious Coach ot Yr. material IMO.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:40 PM    (permalink
Job
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
That's how it has been for years now. Easy example: Panthers CBs toss around WRs in the playoffs on their way to super bowl, league gets super picky about contact. Your average NFL viewer doesn't want to see great defense, they want to see high scoring games that lack slow periods of play.
Yet the Ravens/Steelers games of the last years (this one excluded) must have been about the most phenomenal to watch thanks to the two great defenses going at it.
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