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Old 12-27-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
Nalej
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Default Bill Cowher in 2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4773962

Looks like the Bucs are going to go all out to get him.
No surprise the Bucs will probably go with another coach

(Holmgren and Shanahan got their own threads so I figured Cowher deserved his own as well)
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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I would love to get Cowher here.

I also would be quite happy if Raheem accepted a demotion to DC
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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He might be up for it, especially since Carolina will likely be out of the sweepstakes with Fox turning things around with Matt Moore.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Carolina loves the UDFA QB.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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the 3-4 in tampa? hmmmm...interesting.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Bucs should not dismiss Gruden in the first place.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
the 3-4 in tampa? hmmmm...interesting.
They really don't have the personnel for it.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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I'll always have great respect for Cowher and root for him where ever he goes.

As long as he's no playing the Steelers.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
They really don't have the personnel for it.
They don't have the pieces in the 4-3 that scream failure if you make the switch so I don't think it'd be too big a deal if they did
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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They really don't have the personnel for it.
Neither did the Chiefs but they're still trying it and getting the pieces slowly
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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I don't see the elure of going to Tampa. It would be a major overhaul to the defense if he changed over to the 3-4 and he's basically stuck with Freeman as his franchise QB.

The Panthers would be a much better choice IMO because of their strong offensive line, running game, and looking for their next franchise QB. However the 3-4 would greatly hurt Jon Beason and Thomas Davis who are 2 franchise defensive players.

I don't think he coaches in 2010.
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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I want him in Jacksonville.

Unlikely, but awesome.
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Old 12-27-2009, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
They really don't have the personnel for it.
the timing is perfect to completely retool that defense though. Who on the front seven is worth keeping for the long haul? Barrett Ruud is probably the only one. they need a makeover.
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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I wished Cowher would come back to Pittsburgh as a GM type of personality. That said, I hope he can right ship in Tampa if he were to go there. He's a good coach. I miss him. I just hope the Steelers beat the team he goes to next season.

With that said, I don't know how Morris would fit into their plans since he is a 43 coach. I think he could transition to a 34 because he is very young and has a lot of learning and expirence to gain.

Tampa would attract Cowher because they have a very young and solid QB in Freeman, a good stable of backs, two weapons to throw to in Winslow and Bryant(if he resigns), and some pieces along the front line.

If I were the Bucs, I would build the defense around Ruud, Talib, and Jackson.
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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Cowher is a good coach but he's not some amazing innovator. He's a defensive guy but he didn't really design the Steelers defenses of the 90s. I expect any team he goes to will reflect the type of ball-control play he likes, but don't expect him to resurrect any franchises.
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
the timing is perfect to completely retool that defense though. Who on the front seven is worth keeping for the long haul? Barrett Ruud is probably the only one. they need a makeover.
Here is the problem with the transition.

It's hard enough getting the pieces for a 34 defense, but the hard ones are the 2 5 techs (34 DE) and 1 0 tech (NT). Then you need man coverage corners (because of the blitzing schemes), they're a better zone team (last time I looked... a few years back).

Who do you take with their 1st pick (currently 3rd) to fill those needs. Gerald McCoy is likely the top player available for any of those positions. Do you reach and get Joe Haden? Eric Berry and play a safety bound 34 D? Obviously, you want to trade down to the middle of the round.

Then their second pick is out of range for a NT (in my opinion) without trading up (which is bad for a team that sucks). A 34 DE is possible there (because half of my board at that point is people who could be 5-techs).

You keep going and you finally see to get the players for the defense, you'll have to spend like 80 % of your draft and hope some people want to play in warm weather and domes... because otherwise, you have little to no hope of FAs.

They need to use what they have there. They won't have the luxury to sign players to fill positions and drafting them will be tough.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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It's not a guarantee that he would run the 3-4. The defensive coordinators in Pittsburgh during his tenure were Dick LeBeau, Tim Lewis, Dom Capers, and David Brazil. Only Lewis is known to be more of a 4-3 guy. I think Cowher could run a 4-3 defense with Morris as DC.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:19 AM    (permalink
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If Cowher did come to Tampa Bay I wouldn't be horrified if we went with the 3-4. Sure we don't have the greatest personnel to run it at the moment. But how many 3-4 defenses were amazing during their first season? I doubt many at all. Of course it takes time. Thankfully we've got a couple of years before we are back in playoff contention any way so it mightn't be such a bad move.

Plus I really think we have the offensive line in place which Cowher would love. Joseph, Penn, Sears, Trueblood and Faine can all be nasty run-blockers and really benefit from a RB focused offense.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:40 AM    (permalink
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I sincerely think that Cowher to Tampa Bay is just wishful thinking by Bucs fans. Cowher has one of the easiest jobs in the world, and he makes damn good money doing it. If he were to leave that position, i imagine it would have to be for something really worth it. Going to Tampa Bay to try and make a team out of the players they have there doesn't really seem like a logical move. The money is gonna be the same, if not better, wherever else there is an opening. So unless he has a hard-on for turning crappy situations around, Josh Freeman (who most scouts weren't and still aren't sold on) and a few pieces on the line aren't enough to attract a hot commodity like Bill Cowher.
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Old 12-28-2009, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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I think the Bucs are making a legit push for him but I really don't think it is a good idea, a 3-4 in Tampa? That is almost sacrilegious, the team that brought in the Tampa 2 running a 3-4? That would be weird....

But onto more logical reasons. First off why? Why in the world would Cowher take this job? Is there a reason to enter a division with arguably a top 3 QB in the NFL and the best young QB in the game? He is going to have stiff competition in that division and he is starting from the gutter with that team. So there are a couple nice pieces like the offensive line but who is running behind it? No one who is really that good, Ward, Williams and Graham none of whom are going to light the world on fire soon. And I understand there is Freeman but he is still a big project and plus Cowher loves the smash mouth offense so what good is a young QB who he would need to develop? He needs a game manager, not a project who would make mistakes and plus a QB isn't even all that prominent in his offense, so why would he take interest in a project QB?

Not only that, but the defense needs to be built around Tarnard Jackson, Aqib Talib and Barrett Ruud, none of whom are great fits for that defense, so you're taking the best three players on an already weak defense and kicking them to the curb so to speak? Not smart IMO. The most important parts of a 3-4 defense are the defensive line and the outside linebackers so who takes that spot? Do you draft Suh or McCoy in the top 5 to play 3-4 DE? Why not just put them in the 4-3? And then what? You drafted a DE but there is still a hole on the opposite side and there is no NT, Terrence Cody and Dan Williams will likely be gone at the top of round 2 so you do you trade much needed draft picks to get back in round 1 to get one or do you wait at the top of the second and big up Vince O. or Odrick to man the opposite DE spot? Do you grab a OLB like Kindle, Norwood or Sapp? There is just too much needed to make the switch to a 3-4 and the Bucs don't have it.

I see Cowher as a finisher (aka Gruden) not a builder (Parcells) so I don't really think this is the ideal scenario for him just because the Bucs need so much help at nearly every other spot on the team (most spots on defense).

I like many others think Carolina would be ideal where he would have a grind it out offense with Moore at QB with Steve Smith at WR and the dominating combination of Stewart and Williams. Plus the Panthers at least have some hope for a 3-4 defense, Kemoeatu (sp?) will be back at NT, there is Tank Tyler to play NT and then you could move Peppers and Brown out to OLB while having respectable man to man corners in Gamble, Marshall and Munnerlyn.

I think the Bucs need to build with what they've got in place and not blow the entire thing up by retooling the entire team to a defense that they don't fit in to and an offense that would hinder the progress of their rookie QB. I think the Bucs best option would be to hire Leslie Frazier, move Morris to DC and hire a west coast offense guy like Jim Zorn to run the offense and develop Freeman (who now that I think about it reminds me a little bit of Campbell).
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Parcells as a builder? umm.. I dont see that way. Parcells tended to bring his former staffs and players in. That is considered as a finisher's first chapter to me.

Cowher will deal the new challenge as he could not bring his former staffs and players in. Rudd and Talib can be fit in 3-4 defense as zone blitz defense without any problem.


My best advice to Mr. Morris is to hire vet coaches for OC and DC and leave them alone to these jobs.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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McCoy would be a good 5 tech DE. Seymour-esque. Cody or Williams in round 2 at NT. When most teams transition to the 3-4 they don't play the true 3-4 schemes as much the first couple years until they have the pieces in place. free agency is how they always get stopgaps in place right away. they're gonna likely completely overhaul that defense anyway if they get a new coach from outside the team whether it's a 3-4 or a 4-3.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:09 AM    (permalink
cvv84
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I think the Bucs are making a legit push for him but I really don't think it is a good idea, a 3-4 in Tampa? That is almost sacrilegious, the team that brought in the Tampa 2 running a 3-4? That would be weird....

But onto more logical reasons. First off why? Why in the world would Cowher take this job? Is there a reason to enter a division with arguably a top 3 QB in the NFL and the best young QB in the game? He is going to have stiff competition in that division and he is starting from the gutter with that team. So there are a couple nice pieces like the offensive line but who is running behind it? No one who is really that good, Ward, Williams and Graham none of whom are going to light the world on fire soon. And I understand there is Freeman but he is still a big project and plus Cowher loves the smash mouth offense so what good is a young QB who he would need to develop? He needs a game manager, not a project who would make mistakes and plus a QB isn't even all that prominent in his offense, so why would he take interest in a project QB?

Not only that, but the defense needs to be built around Tarnard Jackson, Aqib Talib and Barrett Ruud, none of whom are great fits for that defense, so you're taking the best three players on an already weak defense and kicking them to the curb so to speak? Not smart IMO. The most important parts of a 3-4 defense are the defensive line and the outside linebackers so who takes that spot? Do you draft Suh or McCoy in the top 5 to play 3-4 DE? Why not just put them in the 4-3? And then what? You drafted a DE but there is still a hole on the opposite side and there is no NT, Terrence Cody and Dan Williams will likely be gone at the top of round 2 so you do you trade much needed draft picks to get back in round 1 to get one or do you wait at the top of the second and big up Vince O. or Odrick to man the opposite DE spot? Do you grab a OLB like Kindle, Norwood or Sapp? There is just too much needed to make the switch to a 3-4 and the Bucs don't have it.

I see Cowher as a finisher (aka Gruden) not a builder (Parcells) so I don't really think this is the ideal scenario for him just because the Bucs need so much help at nearly every other spot on the team (most spots on defense).

I like many others think Carolina would be ideal where he would have a grind it out offense with Moore at QB with Steve Smith at WR and the dominating combination of Stewart and Williams. Plus the Panthers at least have some hope for a 3-4 defense, Kemoeatu (sp?) will be back at NT, there is Tank Tyler to play NT and then you could move Peppers and Brown out to OLB while having respectable man to man corners in Gamble, Marshall and Munnerlyn.

I think the Bucs need to build with what they've got in place and not blow the entire thing up by retooling the entire team to a defense that they don't fit in to and an offense that would hinder the progress of their rookie QB. I think the Bucs best option would be to hire Leslie Frazier, move Morris to DC and hire a west coast offense guy like Jim Zorn to run the offense and develop Freeman (who now that I think about it reminds me a little bit of Campbell).
They aren't even running the Tampa 2 this year and really how don't Tarnard Jackson, Aqib Talib and Barrett Ruud fit into the 3-4. Those are ideal players for the scheme. Their problem is the lack of defensive lineman and pass rushers. Although Stylez G White might be a better fit as an OLB in the 3-4. But really I see no reason to go to Tampa besides the money that the Glazer's would shell out. Carolina makes much more sense but will they fire Fox after his team finished out the season strong?
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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While Cowher would be an exciting hire, I am terrified at how it could impact our young players. How will he get along with Freeman? I dont want a Cutler/McDaniels type situation. I know Freeman is not on Cutler's level but Freeman has shown a lot of promise this year.

As for our front 7, the only guys I see as potential fits in a 34 are Kyle Moore (34 DE), Stylez White (34 OLB), and Quincy Black (34 OLB). That means we would have to get rid of Roy Miller, Barrett Ruud, and (most importantly) Geno Hayes. Talib and TJax would be great players in any system, so I am not worried about them.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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While Cowher would be an exciting hire, I am terrified at how it could impact our young players. How will he get along with Freeman? I dont want a Cutler/McDaniels type situation. I know Freeman is not on Cutler's level but Freeman has shown a lot of promise this year.

As for our front 7, the only guys I see as potential fits in a 34 are Kyle Moore (34 DE), Stylez White (34 OLB), and Quincy Black (34 OLB). That means we would have to get rid of Roy Miller, Barrett Ruud, and (most importantly) Geno Hayes. Talib and TJax would be great players in any system, so I am not worried about them.
Quincy black is like 220 pounds. He wouldn't make it as a 34 OLB. Dre Moore could play DE in a 34.
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