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Old 12-29-2009, 02:09 AM    (permalink
Smokey Joe
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
Playing through an injury is one thing, but a concussion is different. This just crosses the line.
There is no indication that Leach wanted him to play through the concussion. Leach thought he was faking so he had him sent away for practice.

This situation clearly looks as if Adam James was always a slacker, never played up to his ability, and this was Leach's way of showing him to door.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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Leach needs therapy. Seriously.
Leach needs a beatdown
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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it's not like leach has ever made a kid study on the 50-yard line
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smokey Joe View Post
There is no indication that Leach wanted him to play through the concussion. Leach thought he was faking so he had him sent away for practice.

This situation clearly looks as if Adam James was always a slacker, never played up to his ability, and this was Leach's way of showing him to door.
Playing through it and practicing with it are the same thing. If you have a concussion you shouldn't be on the field at all.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
I take it you've experienced this before?
You bet I have.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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Think about it people, Leach has been head coach there for how many years? 10? He's probably had at least 100 players who've gotten concussions over the course of those 10 years.

If Leach is this crazy, evil man... why is this the only case we've heard of that involves Leach making players with a concussion practice or be sent to the "shed."

I find it hilarious that Leach is the one being crucified even though no one knows the facts. James is well known to be a slacker with a huge ego and a famous daddy. James says he was forced to stand in a shed for 3 hours two straight days. Leach says he sent him with a trainer to a cool dark room to rest where he could also see and hear practice.

Who's telling the truth?
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi View Post
Playing through it and practicing with it are the same thing. If you have a concussion you shouldn't be on the field at all.
Again, there is no indication that Leach ever said, "if you dont practice with a concussion, you're off the team."

And guess what, James wasnt on the field at all with his concussion.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Don't forget that Leach was an attorney at law before entering the coaching ranks, a lawyer who loves seeing his name in the headlines for saying & doing outrageous things. Edit: Actually he has a Doctorate in Law from Pepperdine. It speaks volumes about Texas Tech's FB program if he's their winningest coach in history with only 84 Ws.

That was what acquired the publicity surrounding the "fat little girlfriends" speech, now he humiliates a player for not practicing with a concussion who just happens to be the son of ESPN college FB talking head Craig James, a very impolitic move IMO.

btw Leach is one of only four FBS coaches who never played college football at any level (Paul Johnson at Georgia Tech, David Cutcliffe at Duke and George O'Leary at UCF are the others). Remember O'Leary, the ND former HC fired for lying on his resume?

So far I think he's guilty of slander, extortion of millions of $ from the Texas Tech Trustees (huge salary raise holdout) for overhyping his mediocre at best team, player abuse & of course contempt of court..... as a lawyer he would have had his license yanked even in Texas. Maybe the pirate s/b made to walk the plank, I'm sure those players' GFs he dissed would be more than happy to shove him down it.

Maybe he likes blowing all the smoke with his faux pirate carnival sideshow act to divert attention from the fact that his overrated team was exposed in last New Yrs. Cotton Bowl to be all fluff & no stuff, look at how bad the Red Raiders have looked since Crabtree left for the 9ers. These outrageous publicity grabs could cost him that big salary boost if they can him, maybe 60 Minutes will do another followup feature on his decline & fall.

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Old 12-29-2009, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Is anyone surprised? I mean the man thinks he's a pirate.
Maybe he drinks a lot of rum, that may explain some of the behavior.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Maybe he drinks a lot of rum, that may explain some of the behavior.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smokey Joe View Post
Right now it is his word vs. James. Obviously one side is not being truthful. Right now Im just assuming, entirely all my opinion. I never stated anything as fact.

Sure, it might turn out that Leech is a complete nut job and Ill look like a complete idiot.

However, it could turn out im right and all those people calling for Leech's head are idiots.
Leach is a former attorney. I'm pretty sure he knows how to lie and get away with it.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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There is no indication that Leach wanted him to play through the concussion. Leach thought he was faking so he had him sent away for practice.

This situation clearly looks as if Adam James was always a slacker, never played up to his ability, and this was Leach's way of showing him to door.
Which is possible, and the AD wanted him out anyway. This is just the avenue for it.
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
Yeah, what a wimp. This is just like the time I had an ingrown toenail and I played through it all season. It's pretty much the exact same, really. I should have gone to play football in college, they'd have loved my heart for playing through that kind of injury that could really lead to problems down the line(that **** could have gotten infected!).
I don't really get the moral of the story.
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Leach's side has spoken.

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Originally Posted by ESPN
Liggett told Schad that while James was secluded twice, the circumstances were not as portrayed in that account.

Liggett said James "was placed in an equipment room as it was much cooler and darker" than the practice field "after a doctor had examined him and returned him to the field."

Liggett said that on that day, a trainer was posted outside the room and that James was provided ice. Liggett said that James was secluded for one to two hours.

Liggett said that on another occasion, James was placed in a "press room with air-conditioning and a stationary bike he could use."
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Leach's side has spoken.
As a lawyer the words "placed" and "Posted outside" would make me question what was going on there.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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just scrolled acorss ESPN that Leach and his attorneys anticipate TTU will try to fire him
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Is Mike Leach to florida possible?
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Mike Leach filing for restraining order so he can coach bowl game.

Texas Tech needs to fire him ASAP. Regardless of innocence or guilt, the university suspended him, and now he's basically trying to weasel his way out of it and say '**** you, I'm not going to listen to you, you can't suspend me'.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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btw Leach is one of only four FBS coaches who never played college football at any level (Paul Johnson at Georgia Tech, David Cutcliffe at Duke and George O'Leary at UCF are the others). Remember O'Leary, the ND former HC fired for lying on his resume?

l.
I don't really buy the rest of your post but this is interesting. I would take Cutliffe, Leach and Johnson for any team. These guys have been pretty successful in their respective situations.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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Mike Leach filing for restraining order so he can coach bowl game.

Texas Tech needs to fire him ASAP. Regardless of innocence or guilt, the university suspended him, and now he's basically trying to weasel his way out of it and say '**** you, I'm not going to listen to you, you can't suspend me'.
They suspended him without giving him any reason for doing so. i think he made the right response.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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On a side note, I really hate when people talk about what they would put up with to play professional/college sports (and on another side note, I like sabf, so nothing personal). It's so completely irrelevant. I mean, yeah, I'd put up with a lot of **** to get to board a spacecraft and fly to the moon, but I'm also woefully underqualified to be an astronaut, so who exactly gives a ****?

There appears to be a fair amount of hearsay, but I find the accusations that James is soft to be a pointless cheap shot. Either Leach overstepped his boundaries as a coach or he didn't. Just because I have a slow student doesn't mean I can tie a dictionary to their nutsack and have them run laps in the hallway. The special exemption given to college coaches to act however they want seems to stem from this completely irrelevant attitude of people who envy those that get to play college football. Just because you would put up with a bunch of **** to play sports doesn't mean everyone should.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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On a side note, I really hate when people talk about what they would put up with to play professional/college sports (and on another side note, I like sabf, so nothing personal). It's so completely irrelevant. I mean, yeah, I'd put up with a lot of **** to get to board a spacecraft and fly to the moon, but I'm also woefully underqualified to be an astronaut, so who exactly gives a ****?
I was actually joking, lol, just saying that playing through a concussion is a lot different than playing through any other kind of injury. I played with a guy who went D1, and he owned me thoroughly enough in practice even though I was older that I have no misconceptions about being able to play football again.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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On a side note, I really hate when people talk about what they would put up with to play professional/college sports (and on another side note, I like sabf, so nothing personal). It's so completely irrelevant. I mean, yeah, I'd put up with a lot of **** to get to board a spacecraft and fly to the moon, but I'm also woefully underqualified to be an astronaut, so who exactly gives a ****?

There appears to be a fair amount of hearsay, but I find the accusations that James is soft to be a pointless cheap shot. Either Leach overstepped his boundaries as a coach or he didn't. Just because I have a slow student doesn't mean I can tie a dictionary to their nutsack and have them run laps in the hallway. The special exemption given to college coaches to act however they want seems to stem from this completely irrelevant attitude of people who envy those that get to play college football. Just because you would put up with a bunch of **** to play sports doesn't mean everyone should.
Maybe it was just me, but I thought Chris was being sarcastic...

I've got no issue with anyone talking about what they'd do to play football on a football forum. I just shrug 'em off the same way I do the, "I could've scored a TD running through that hole!" (When in reality, they'd probably get hit for a loss and break every bone in their leg in the process). Although, I do agree that no one here gives a **** on your aerospace aspirations, BF51. ;)
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Just because you would put up with a bunch of **** to play sports doesn't mean everyone should.
"Yeah, but I'm a 5'7" 150lbs kid! I could handle that sort of treatment, for sure! I'd give any thing to say I played college ball, it's like the best thing you can do! People would be so jealous of me!"
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't really buy the rest of your post but this is interesting. I would take Cutliffe, Leach and Johnson for any team. These guys have been pretty successful in their respective situations.
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btw Leach is one of only four FBS coaches who never played college football at any level (Paul Johnson at Georgia Tech, David Cutcliffe at Duke and George O'Leary at UCF are the others). Remember O'Leary, the ND former HC fired for lying on his resume?
The point I was making is that there is a better than even chance that Leach just doesnt get it when it comes to FB, he has never played it, never even taken a FB Fundamentals class, certainly is unsympathetic to injured players b/c he has never endured that pain himself.

I think he s/b fired so Texas Tech can move on with an actual experienced FB coach instead of some attorney hustler who is making megabucks from his employers resorting to all this smoke & mirrors to distract from the fact that his product on the field is inferior. You would think a lawyer HC would protect them from the obvious liability implications that will almost certainly result in Texas Tech being sued here, but I think his monumental ego won't let him.

Here's Jay Mariotti's article on it:

For Losing His Mind, Leach Earns Ride Out of Lubbock
12/29/2009 4:45 PM ET By Jay Mariotti

If you've wondered why there's an intense focus on concussions, why the NFL finally dumped the medical specialists who said head injuries don't pose long-term health dangers, why NFL players no longer can return to a game if they suffer even the slightest concussion and why one Democrat in Congress has compared this growing crisis to the deception of "tobacco companies pre-1990s'' -- well, America, meet Mike Leach.

As long as creepy thugs such as the Texas Tech football coach exist, no amount of discourse, reform and legislation is enough.

We are hours from the second decade of the 21st century. Sports people should be more medically aware than ever, particularly about matters of the brain. When an athlete sustains a head injury of any sort, a coach should have the educated sensibility to drop all other priorities and concentrate fully on that player's well-being. In the case of Adam James, a redshirt sophomore receiver, Leach reportedly doubted that he had suffered a concussion during a Dec. 16 practice and thought he was just another player disgruntled about playing time. Even though James had been examined a day later and told not to practice after being diagnosed with a concussion and an elevated heart rate, Leach wasn't a caring, compassionate soul about it. Actually, he came off as a warped and sinister ogre when, according to sources who spoke to ESPN and the Associated Press, he told a university trainer to move James into a secluded room -- "to the darkest place, to clean out the equipment and to make sure that he could not sit or lean. He was confined for three hours." If James tried to leave the area, a source told the AP, he would be kicked off the team at once. The Lubbock Avalanche Journal reported that the room was a shed and that Leach forced James to stand in it for two hours during practice.

Sick? Inhumane? We're only beginning down this twisted trail. Two days later, Leach allegedly told a trainer to place James "in the darkest, tightest spot. It was in an electrical closet, again, with a guard posted outside." Know what comes to mind? The movie "Midnight Express," the true story of an American who was tortured for years inside a Turkish prison after trying to smuggle drugs through an airport.

I realize West Texas is far removed from modern civilization, filled with flying dust and tumbleweeds, a place that embraced and revered Bob Knight after he was fired for roughing up young people at Indiana. I also realize Leach is a quirky fellow who avoids conventional thinking and probably belongs on another planet. Still, there is no defense for such a malicious, irresponsible response to a player's medical condition. And while Leach has his side of the story, his lawyer has confirmed that proper medical protocol -- letting doctors handle James' treatment procedures with tender, loving care -- obviously was neglected in ways that boggle the mind.

According to Ted Liggett, Leach's attorney, James embellished the severity of his head injury. Liggett called it a "mild concussion,'' telling the AP, "I believe that [James] was a disgruntled student-athlete that, like many, were not happy with playing time.'' To deal with the "mild concussion,'' Liggett says James "was placed in an equipment room as it was much cooler and darker" than the practice field "after a doctor had examined him and returned him to the field." He was required to spend one to two hours in seclusion, not three, said Liggett, who added that ice was made available to James while a trainer stood guard outside the room. On the later date, Liggett said James was ordered to stay in a "press room with air-conditioning and a stationary bike he could use.''

Oh, and we're supposed to feel better now, assuming the explanation is true in any sense? If anyone should be placed in solitary confinement and wrapped in a straitjacket under lock and key, it's Leach. What a friggin' lunatic.

"Because of the fact that he had a concussion and he was extremely limited in the physical activity he could undergo, Mike felt like that was the best place for him and still be close to and part of the team,'' said Liggett, digging a bigger hole with every syllable.
The question is whether the school will move forward and fire Leach. If Texas Tech has any credibility, he'll be dismissed this week and deemed unfit to be around young men, much less be considered an educator.
Word hasn't reached Leach, evidently, that concussions can kill athletes of all ages. Or cause dementia and other cognitive decline. Or lead people to depression and suicidal thoughts. Since when did Leach become a licensed doctor and determine concussions can be treated in a dark room? Or, worse, who made him God and let him punish a player for supposedly lying about a "mild'' concussion? There is no such thing, he should know, as a "mild'' concussion. The way Leach reacted is the traditional, macho, grunt/snort response that ignores an enlightened ongoing campaign about how head injuries damage athletes later in life. Ask Ted Johnson, the former New England Patriots linebacker, about the quality of his life after he was pressured to keep playing with mutiple concussions. Still in his 30s, he is fighting emotional issues, can't remember simple thoughts and worries he'll become a mental vegetable in a few years. There are hundreds of ex-players just like Johnson, as NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell finally is acknowledging. If Leach did have a medical degree, it would be stripped at once on the grounds that he's a quack. The school immediately suspended him, banned him from coaching in Saturday's Alamo Bowl in San Antonio and launched an internal investigation.

"We obviously think the allegations are very serious," Jerry Turner, vice chairman of the Texas Tech Board of Regents, told the Dallas Morning News.

The question is whether the school will move forward and fire Leach. If Texas Tech has any credibility, he'll be dismissed this week and deemed unfit to be around young men, much less be considered an educator. James' story becomes more credible upon learning his father is Craig James, the former SMU and Patriots star, who now works as an ESPN analyst. The elder James was supposed to work the Alamo Bowl for the network. Not anymore -- not when he's rightfully trying to bring down Leach.

In a statement, the James family said their son has "been subjected to actions and treatment not consistent with common sense rules for safety and health. Over the past year, there has been a greatly enhanced recognition of the dangers of concussions and the potential for long term physical damage to players. At virtually every level of football coaching, cases where children and young men have sustained concussions have generated serious discussion of the importance of correct treatment and diagnosis." They decided to go public with the story after careful deliberation and prayer, the statement said.

I've covered Craig James' football career and know what he stands for. I don't believe for an instant that his son is a crybaby hypochondriac seeking more playing time. To the contrary, James is a concerned father who was brave enough to expose Leach's medieval tactics. After briefly crashing the national-championship picture last season, with ABC venturing to Lubbock for consecutive prime-time telecasts on Saturday nights, Texas Tech has struggled through an 8-4 season. Leach has been especially nutty, ripping his players for being too close to "their fat little girlfriends'' after an October loss to Texas A&M. He suspended a starting offensive lineman for violating unspecified team rules and banned the Twitter craze after a linebacker, Marion Williams, Tweeted about why the players were in a meeting room when "the head coach can't even be on time.''

It should surprise no one that Leach will use the legal process in an attempt to coach the Red Raiders in the bowl game. Last winter, attorneys were all over the place during his contract dispute with Texas Tech, which eventually was settled when he signed a five-year, $12.7 million deal. He likely won't be seeing the final four years of that pact. If there's any justice, he'll won't be seeing the Alamodome sideline, either. "We're going to do everything we can to see that our client is duly served justice and that he's reunited with his boys as soon as possible,'' Liggett said.

His boys? If that's how Leach treats his boys, I don't know how he'll enter a living room and recruit a 17-year-old. "Coach,'' a mom will ask, 'what if my Tommy gets a concussion. You gonna lock him up in solitary confinement? Let insects crawl over him?' '' There is no way Leach survives this. He needs a new profession, a new perspective on life.

"There's much, much more than meets the eye,'' Liggett argued in the Lubbock newspaper. "The diagnosing doctor has signed a note stating that Adam James was in no way injured by the actions coach Leach took. In fact, he was better off in the building than he would have been outside.''

What, Fred Flintstone's cave wasn't available?

With that, we'll say goodbye to Leach, just as we said goodbye weeks ago to another college coach accused of abusing his players, Mark Mangino. The more we can make potent statements about the dangers of concussions, the safer a violent game will be. Not long ago, an AP survey showed that one-fifth of 160 polled NFL players said they've either downplayed or haven't reported a concussion and its symptoms. The pro player I worry about most is Ben Roethlisberger, the Pittsburgh quarterback and two-time Super Bowl champion, who has shrugged off four concussions as if they were pimples. Even after his most recent concussion a few weeks ago, Roethlisberger doubted that players would be "completely honest'' about head injuries. This came after his teammate, noted tough-guy Hines Ward, applied pressure publicly for Roethlisberger to play in a Nov. 29 game at Baltimore in which he was ruled out.

"All of us want to be fathers and husbands someday. In that sense, I think it's good," Roethlisberger said of concussion awareness. "I think it does run the risk that we are tough guys, we want to play through things, and I think guys will not be completely honest for fear that they can't get back in the game. I think it's kind of a double-edged sword."

No, the sword has one edge. And it can be fatal, sooner or later, only exacerbated by the presence of too many cruel and disturbed coaches.
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