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Old 01-05-2010, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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Default Clausen vs Okung vs Bradford

I'll start by saying this. I don't think, at this point, that the Rams will pass on Clausen with the first pick. In most years, I'd say its a no brainer. But it's been a while since a player like Suh has come through the college ranks so anything can happen and a lot can change between now and April.

So let's assume that at pick #4, Clausen, Bradford and Okung are all available. Who should we pick and why? I've wrestled with this a lot and obviously there are arguments for both players.

I'll admit that I have been against the qb pick for quite sometime now. But deep down I know that my logic is not necessarily reasonable. I've loved Colt Brennan since day 1 and I want badly for him to get his shot. I want more than anything for the Skins to build the offensive line and give Brennan a legitimate chance before going in another direction but I know that opportunities to draft franchise qbs dont come around often.

I think a lot will depend on the cap and what happens with Campbell. It looks more and more like 2010 will be an uncapped season which leaves the Redskins with a decision to make with Campbell as a RFA. Either drag things out for another season or try to trade him for some sort of value. No team is going to match an offer sheet for a 1st and a 3rd but the Skins can try to trade Campbell for lesser value. I think that a handful of teams could be interested.

Basically, if Campbell is on the roster for 2010 then I think drafting a qb is the wrong decision. In that case, the Skins have to build the line and go with Campbell and Brennan and possibly a FA or late round pick. If Campbell is gone though, the Skins could face a tough decision with the 4th pick.

Lets take a look at these three players.

Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame


Things I like: Mental toughness, no real serious injury concerns in his past, passionate about winning, impressive accuracy (not necessarily elite), quick feet in and around the pocket, reads coverage well, and good mechanics.

Things I disklike: deicision making, arm strength questionable, doesnt throw a great deep ball, uncertain leadership qualities, takes a lot of sacks, and will force throws.

Reminds me of: Aaron Rodgers coming out of Cal

Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State


Thinks I like: tough as hell, mauler in the run game, quick impressive footwork, excels in both pass and run protection, 47 consecutive starts, consistent, prototypical size and strength, leadership

Thinks I dislike: doesnt always lock defenders, sometimes loses focus and gets too high

Reminds me of: Joe Thomas

Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma


Thinks I like: production, competitive hard worker, leader who commands in the huddle, incredible accuracy, can avoid the rush and throw on the run, and student of the game

Thinks I disklike: mechanics, average arm strength, durability and history of bad injuries, minimal experience taking snaps under center, missed 90% of junior year, tends to stare down targets

Reminds me of: Chad Pennington

Those are most of my thouhts for now. What do you guys think?
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I've gotta go Okung...I see where you're coming from with the QB stuff though...if there was an elite QB in this draft I would take them over Okung but I just don't trust Clausen and Bradford.

Okung is an extremely safe pick in my mind...it's pretty much a slam dunk solid LT starter for several years.

I don't think the skins can afford to pass that up and gamble on these QB's...because if they bust its gonna set the franchise back again. And the bust factor is pretty high with them IMO.

My plan would be...take Okung/Davis...open the QB job in preseason with a competition between Colt and Jason/Vet QB. If Colt/JC still doesn't prove himself...take/trade up in next year's draft if needed for a QB.

If I do have to choose between Clausen or Bradford though I'm taking Clausen.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I am less and less of a fan of taking Okung, problem is that if it isn't him it's a QB and I don't want a QB although I guess I could somewhat tolerate Clausen. Okung is very strong at the point of attack but IMO he doesn't have the athleticism and sheer pass blocking talent to warrant a top 10 selection. IMO he is a Top 15-20 type talent. Just looking at the depth of OT there is no doubt that at the 35th pick we can get an OT who might not be as polished but has just as much if not more upside than Okung. As for the QB's I love that Pennington comparison to Bradford. That seems so spot on, skills wise as well as shoulder health, lol. Clausen I've liken him to Eli Manning and I actually do think he can make things happen without ideal protection unlike Bradford, but still I am against drafting a QB this year although inevitably that will probably happen. I'm still looking at Colt McCoy and Pike though in the second round.
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I actually do think Okung is an elite prospect. Hes a monster in run blocking but Im not sure where you dont think that hes as strong in pass blocking. He could use his hands and long arms better, which is easily coachable, but he slides really well, plays with balance, and shuts down the edge quickly. Well see what his measurables are but I think your underestimating his athleticism.

With that said, Im all about Eric Berry and Gerald McCoy as well and am all for a trade down. If we could move down and draft a guy like Davis, Bulaga, Iupati, Vladimir, or Campbell as well as pick up another 2nd round pick that would be ideal. Spiller or Earl Thomas in a trade down would be sweet too and we could take oline with both 2nd rounders.
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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I think if it was bruce Allen making the call then it would be Okung.
However,Shanahan will be looking to bring in his guy at Q.B.

There is a real chance that the new coach will bring in evergreen alex Gibbs(69 years old) as o-line coach.I dont believe a smaller,athletic line will fit with the way jason Campbell plays(i.e.pass protectors that can block for a long time).

A question i would ask is,the 2010 QB class isnt great but is the 2011 class any better(locker apart),the same or worse than 2010?
I dont expect Shanahan to finish up with a 4-12 record,even with a re-build.
So if we are picking at 4 and Clausen and Bradford are there my head says take the more nfl ready Clausen and my heart says take Bradford(even though his arm strength and durability are red flags).

However,there is another quarterback who could well rise after the combine/work-outs and if Clausen is gone and Bradford doesn't look good in private workouts he could be the guy.
Arkansas' Ryan Mallett anyone?
Very raw,sits for a year or two,but talented enough to be a franchise QB?

Hope i haven't made anyone throw up!
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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i would say that yes the next 1-2 years draft classes are potentially much better than this years, depending on who declares. i expect mallet to return to school this year and probably be a top 10-15 pick next year along with locker. blaine gabberts another guy that i really really like. and the 2012 qb draft class is going to knock your socks off! barkley and andrew luck...wow.

from what ive heard about kyle shanahan (im assuming he will be our offensive coordinator), he is a guy that focuses on the entire offense as a hole and not just at qb. i love this quote of his: "I studied every potential Xs and Os play and issue possible. I spent my whole life working on that. My goal was that any question a player could have about anything on the field, I'd be able to answer it."
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Dirty Thirty,
i forgot to mention that one QB that kyle Shanahan has worked with is sage Rosenfels(ex-skin) who is currently 3rd choice at the vikings.
He would make sense as a free agent signing.

I wonder if Mallett will return to school if he can break into the 2010 top ten picks.
How good is Boise State's Q.B. Kellen Moore-they have had a good year.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Dirty Thirty,
i forgot to mention that one QB that kyle Shanahan has worked with is sage Rosenfels(ex-skin) who is currently 3rd choice at the vikings.
He would make sense as a free agent signing.
Id be all for bringing in Sage but Im fairly certain that he is under contract with the Vikings for another season. He is carrying a pretty expensive contract though and in an uncapped year without cap penalties I could see him getting cut. Sage + Colt and a rebuilt line would make me perfectly happy next year.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Clausen is the pick... Bradford has had two surgeries on his shoulder and if we trade Campbell for a pick, we can get an O-Linemen with that pick. Don't get me wrong, Okung is a great player but Clausen has that it factor. I am a die hard ND fan so one may think im biased but i have watched his career unfold and all those games in which he led his team to a lead or a win in the last drive says enough. Those loses at ND were because our corners cant cover anyone and Tenuta is not fit for college-level defense. His methods are too advanced to grasp.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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im all okung in the first round and if what ghetto is saying is true then frick take another one of those tackles in the 2nd. has bruce allen not gone o-line rounds 1 and 2 before ?
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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If the writing on the wall is true and Shanny is the HC Okung has to be the pick Jimmy and Sammy are not Shanny QBs. Wait a year take Snead next year Snead is the prototype QB for the Shannahan system.
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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If the writing on the wall is true and Shanny is the HC Okung has to be the pick Jimmy and Sammy are not Shanny QBs. Wait a year take Snead next year Snead is the prototype QB for the Shannahan system.
what qualties are a shanny qb ?
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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what qualties are a shanny qb ?


haha one can hope right? for real broth what you got?
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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what qualties are a shanny qb ?
Big armed gun slinger who can scramble out of the pocket.

See
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Big armed gun slinger who can scramble out of the pocket.

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Where is Jake Locker when you need him. I'm happy with taking Okung or top defensive player available at 4, while trading back in the late 2nd-early 3rd and take Tony Pike.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Where is Jake Locker when you need him. I'm happy with taking Okung or top defensive player available at 4, while trading back in the late 2nd-early 3rd and take Tony Pike.
i think trading back in the second is the way to go. we have a chance in the top 5 to take a premiere franchise player in either okung or berry or even mccoy possibly. by trading back in the second we can try to recoup our 3rd rounder but for me id rather do it for a rb like devine or hardesty.
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm really starting to warm up to looking at Gerald McCoy with the 4th pick. I think if we do decide to go Campbell+Colt next year, or Colt and whatever Free agent, it really free's us up in the draft to go more so of talent over need and sacrificing talent. If this year is any indication Albert is such a liability to be on the field consistently. Also I think having a guy just as talented as him is a kick in the butt for Albert to put more effort in it. Still though you always have to question having 150+ million invested in 2 DT's when someone like Kedric Golston can be resigned for a fair market price. Another outside the box pick which I am welcoming to is Rolando McClain. The guy is an absolute monster and tackling machine. Our LB corps make look good now but really Rocky McIntosh is the only true starter I see for the future, this is making the assumption that Orakpo plays more DE in the future. McClain is a guy who could eventually replace London but at the very least can start opposite of Rocky and allow Orakpo to play DE.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Big armed gun slinger who can scramble out of the pocket.

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Jake Plummer
Jay Cutler
jason campbell is a big armed gun slinger who can scramble out of the pocket, that basically describes what campbell is best at.

heck, colt isnt big, but his arm is good and is very good at scrambling and throwing on the run.

snead would be a waste, very inconsistent and stupid. (i just dont like him)
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Snead sucks don't get me started on him. Anywhere in the first 3 rounds he doesn't belong.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I think jason Campbell is gone as a redskin.

Both bruce Allen and mike Shanahan have used the same words about Campbell,
"his best days are ahead of him"
Nothing on his achievements so far as a redskin.
They want a draft pick for him(maybe a third or fourth).

Really think they will take a quarterback this year and sam Bradford's shoulder injury is a blessing for the skins.
Why?

Because we would have no shot of selecting him if he re-produced his 2008 form.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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how do you turn, best days ahead of him = not here. he also said he looks forward to working with him and he likes how he handles himself, he's coming back.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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If Campbell ends up a RFA there is no way we don't keep him for another year. The fact is that Campbell is the best QB on the market. Whether or not you draft a QB with the 4th pick you need Campbell there.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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A couple things to consider with Okung and the 4th pick.

1. In the zone blocking scheme, the best overall prospect isnt always the best overall prospect for the zbs. What you want in a left tackle is a lighter left tackle (300-310 range) who is extremely mobile and can get out to the second level and pull and block. With Okung well have to pay attention at the combine to not only his 40 time (projected around 5.25) but also the various agility tests. The OTs right now at first glance that best fit that mold are probably Bruce Campbell, Bryan Bulaga, and Charles Brown.

2. Shanahan doesn't believe in 1st round running backs. Shanahan in the past has been known to find rb gems in the mid rounds. He usually looks for guys who are 1 cut and go runners with great vision finding the hole and hitting it hard. In this years draft, no runner exemplifies those characteristics to me more than Hardesty. Without having our early 3rd round pick, I think the best scenario would be trading back in the 2nd to pick up another draft pick for the oline and taking Hardesty in the mid to late 2nd.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Thirty View Post
A couple things to consider with Okung and the 4th pick.

1. In the zone blocking scheme, the best overall prospect isnt always the best overall prospect for the zbs. What you want in a left tackle is a lighter left tackle (300-310 range) who is extremely mobile and can get out to the second level and pull and block. With Okung well have to pay attention at the combine to not only his 40 time (projected around 5.25) but also the various agility tests. The OTs right now at first glance that best fit that mold are probably Bruce Campbell, Bryan Bulaga, and Charles Brown.

2. Shanahan doesn't believe in 1st round running backs. Shanahan in the past has been known to find rb gems in the mid rounds. He usually looks for guys who are 1 cut and go runners with great vision finding the hole and hitting it hard. In this years draft, no runner exemplifies those characteristics to me more than Hardesty. Without having our early 3rd round pick, I think the best scenario would be trading back in the 2nd to pick up another draft pick for the oline and taking Hardesty in the mid to late 2nd.
2. (Defines Noel Devine)
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Quick question. How big of a need is a safety for you guys? I'm working on a mock draft right now...and I have Okung and Clausen off the board. Was wondering if you guys were looking for another safety, or if some other position was a bigger concern?
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