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Old 01-11-2010, 08:42 AM    (permalink
STsACE
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Sanchez is 21 years old. He's smart, athletic, and has a great arm.

He just went 12-15 in a playoff game against a very good defense.

He is 10-7 in his career.

There is no reason to think anything other than he's going to be a very good NFL QB.

As a Seahawks fan, I'm disgusted that they passed on this kid for a 4-3 OLB.
I'm not sold on Sanchez as some are. He's not asked to win the game. He has the #1 Rushing Offense and a darn good defense backing him up. Yeah, he will probably get better. But, defenses will now have tape on him for next year.

As a Browns fan, DA had a phenomenal 2007 (for a Browns QB anyway:p ) and half of our fans wanted to crown him for that season. He flat out sucks. Just pointing out, one season doesn't make a QB.

Sanchez had a mediocre sub-par season. Let's see what happens when the Jets have a losing record and see how he reacts. Not saying Sanchez doesn't have a chance of being a good NFL QB. He hasn't experienced losing coming from USC and then falling into a playoff capable team to start his career. Usually when the times get bad is when you can somewhat fairly judge players.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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the waiting period on draft class grading is three years, guys. Looking back at '09 is pretty much pointless at this stage.

'07 anyone?
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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-Knowshon Moreno: I was shocked he was drafted so high to begin with, but this guy just doesn't impress me at all. For a smaller back, he lacks speed, and he's not powerful enough to make up for it. Hes simply an average RB. Buck outplaying him all season isn't a good sign either. Theres no way you draft a RB that early unless he's an unbelievable prospect, and Moreno is not that kind of player.

-Andre Smith: Didn't even see the field. I love his potential though. He was my favorite LT in the draft but his character concerns are an issue.

-Everette Brown: Much better suited to be a 3-4 OLB. Was supposed to have an impact opposite Peppers. I still like him as a prospect though.

-Connor Barwin: Didn't do much. Was the talk of the combine. Needs to step up. I like his potential though.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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I said some of the exact same things about Moreno, did alot of things well but nothing exceptional and looked nothing more then average, he reminded me alot of Marion Barber which I was probably the only one who felt that way but he still reminds me of him outside of battering into defenders with reckless abandon but Barber still did/does alot of things really well.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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-Knowshon Moreno: I was shocked he was drafted so high to begin with, but this guy just doesn't impress me at all. For a smaller back, he lacks speed, and he's not powerful enough to make up for it. Hes simply an average RB. Buck outplaying him all season isn't a good sign either. Theres no way you draft a RB that early unless he's an unbelievable prospect, and Moreno is not that kind of player.

-Andre Smith: Didn't even see the field. I love his potential though. He was my favorite LT in the draft but his character concerns are an issue.

-Everette Brown: Much better suited to be a 3-4 OLB. Was supposed to have an impact opposite Peppers. I still like him as a prospect though.

-Connor Barwin: Didn't do much. Was the talk of the combine. Needs to step up. I like his potential though.
In Barwin's defense, he was known to be a raw prospect, he's still new to the position he plays. Like Maybin, I don't believe anyone thought he'd have a spectacular rookie season.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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In Barwin's defense, he was known to be a raw prospect, he's still new to the position he plays. Like Maybin, I don't believe anyone thought he'd have a spectacular rookie season.
Thats true. I forgot to include Malcolm Jenkins to my list. I want to put Jason Smith, but you can't knock a guy for having a serious injury.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I got pooped on.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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I got pooped on.
tell me more!
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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^^^ By njx, It was humiliating but awesome at the same time.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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^^^ By njx, It was humiliating but awesome at the same time.
I can imagine that.


















Wait I imagine that every single lonely night :'(
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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How bout the Patriots first half of the draft? Traded out of #23 to the Ravens who selected Michael Oher and then traded out of #26 to the Packers who selected Clay Matthews Jr. They then draft Patrick Chung at #34 who seems to have the same skill set as someone already on the team (James Sanders) and passed on James Laurinaitis or Rey Maualuga.

Although Sebastian Vollmer is awesome so that helps soften the sting of passing on Oher. Hopefully Brandon Tate and Tyrone Mckenzie are able to contribute is some meaningful way next season.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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For how much we used him this year, Pat White has to be considered a HUGE disappointment. He was supposed to be instrumental in the wildcat this year, but he looked to timid in the few times he was used. Then once Ronnie went down, we pretty much scrapped the formation alltogether.

And BTW, for anyone counting the DHB pick, we just simply don't count the Raider's picks anymore. That like cheating because we all expect them to fail anyway. Let's be honest, NO ONE saw that pick working out at all anyway.
also for as much as people hyped up Pat White. I thought he'd be like Randle El was in Pittsburgh, but not even close. He looked scared to death everytime he came into the game.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Moreno's style reminds me of Portis the past 2 years on the Skins, and that's not a complement.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sold on Sanchez as some are. He's not asked to win the game. He has the #1 Rushing Offense and a darn good defense backing him up. Yeah, he will probably get better. But, defenses will now have tape on him for next year.

As a Browns fan, DA had a phenomenal 2007 (for a Browns QB anyway:p ) and half of our fans wanted to crown him for that season. He flat out sucks. Just pointing out, one season doesn't make a QB.

Sanchez had a mediocre sub-par season. Let's see what happens when the Jets have a losing record and see how he reacts. Not saying Sanchez doesn't have a chance of being a good NFL QB. He hasn't experienced losing coming from USC and then falling into a playoff capable team to start his career. Usually when the times get bad is when you can somewhat fairly judge players.
Completely disagree. I understand your point- they win despite him. That's fine, my rebuttal is always- what do you want him to do- that's the hand he was dealt and he's now one of the eight QBs left standing. You can play the what if game all day but it always comes down to what is. Sanchez has a great D and running game and just played the best game of his career. Indisputable facts.

And what tape will opposing defenses have? The Jets do everything they can to mask Sanchez's youth and impatience. For his own personal growth as a player, he would be much better off on a team that wasn't winning right now because he'd be able to explore the art of NFL quarterbacking. Now he's contending for a title, not feeling out the new league.

I mean you can be pessimistic if you want, but about 95% of guys who look like this THIS early in their careers + have a good head on their shoulders/work ethic end up getting better.

And quickly, your point about adversity... Sanchez has felt a lot of HUGE downs this year and dealt with them great. He threw like five picks against the Bills. The Falcons game his own coach said they were done and he led them to like 7 points. Sanchez has shown some resilience already in his young career because, ask any Jet fan, this year has been a crazy roller coaster.

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Old 01-11-2010, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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How bout the Patriots first half of the draft? Traded out of #23 to the Ravens who selected Michael Oher and then traded out of #26 to the Packers who selected Clay Matthews Jr. They then draft Patrick Chung at #34 who seems to have the same skill set as someone already on the team (James Sanders) and passed on James Laurinaitis or Rey Maualuga.

Although Sebastian Vollmer is awesome so that helps soften the sting of passing on Oher. Hopefully Brandon Tate and Tyrone Mckenzie are able to contribute is some meaningful way next season.
This is the reason the Patriots' drafting hasn't been very good the past few years: they won't just sit where they are and pick the talent that falls to them. I understand trading down and recouping picks, but quantity over quality only goes so far.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Completely disagree. I understand your point- they win despite him. That's fine, my rebuttal is always- what do you want him to do- that's the hand he was dealt and he's now one of the eight QBs left standing. You can play the what if game all day but it always comes down to what is. Sanchez has a great D and running game and just played the best game of his career. Indisputable facts.

And what tape will opposing defenses have? The Jets do everything they can to mask Sanchez's youth and impatience. For his own personal growth as a player, he would be much better off on a team that wasn't winning right now because he'd be able to explore the art of NFL quarterbacking. Now he's contending for a title, not feeling out the new league.

I mean you can be pessimistic if you want, but about 95% of guys who look like this THIS early in their careers + have a good head on their shoulders/work ethic end up getting better.
They only thing you can say is that over the course of the year, the Jets have had to dumb down the offense for him. When he had more of a playbook to work with and more reads to make, he performed terribly. Not only do they only let him throw a 15-18 times a game, but the throws he does make are completely dumbed down. He's got a lot of improving to do.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I think the Pats did just fine. The Patriots are a team who usually develop their rookies VERY slowly. Look at Merriweather. He finally broke out this year after 2 years on the bench.

Brace gives them leverage on Wilfork. Butler will develop into a solid CB, he just needs more time. Volmer is a BEAST. I love Volmer. He should replace Light next year.

Chung fits their scheme and will replace Sanders when its time.


They did fine. And they saved tons of money. And they have multiple picks for this year's draft which should be a good one, esp for 3-4 teams.

So whats the problem? Sounds like a great draft if you ask me.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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I liked Knowshon Moreno as a prospect. I'm really surprised that his vision seems to be a problem so far considering that was one of his strengths in college.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I think the Pats did just fine. The Patriots are a team who usually develop their rookies VERY slowly. Look at Merriweather. He finally broke out this year after 2 years on the bench.

Brace gives them leverage on Wilfork. Butler will develop into a solid CB, he just needs more time. Volmer is a BEAST. I love Volmer. He should replace Light next year.

Chung fits their scheme and will replace Sanders when its time.


They did fine. And they saved tons of money. And they have multiple picks for this year's draft which should be a good one, esp for 3-4 teams.

So whats the problem? Sounds like a great draft if you ask me.
They passed on several guys that would have brought talent to the linebacking corp which is what they needed and continue to need going into this offseason. Drafting Matthews takes away Butler since the Packers 2nd round pick is what the Pats used to pick Butler. Whats a secondary's best friend? A good pass rush. Having players that can get to the quarterback can mask some deficiencies in the secondary. I'm a fan of Butler fwiw but it sucks to see a guy get 10 sacks drafted in the spot you just traded out of. But I agree last years draft will look better if we actually draft some of these 3-4 prospects.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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The problem with this though is that they traded a pro bowl line backer (Julian Peterson) before the draft to essentially make room for Curry. They already had the set. As a Cards fan I was pretty happy with the pick of Curry over Monroe, Sanchez or Crabtree.
While I didn't agree with the Curry pick, I was happy the 'Hawks got rid of Peterson. He made 3 Pro Bowls in 3 years with the 'Hawks and I didn't think he deserved one of them. The guy would have 2-3 outstanding games a year (usually against the 49ers) and completely disappear the rest of the season.

The 'Hawks could have taken a OLB in the 3rd or 4th, or just plugged in Will Herring as a stop gap, and gotten just as much production out of the position as Curry gave us.

I know it's just one year and the light could still go on for Curry, but if Sanchez goes on to be a solid starter in the league for 10-12 years, Curry will have to be a Hall of Famer for me consider it a good pick. Let's face it, this is QB league, and Hasselbeck's time is all but done, and if the 'Hawks are still looking for their QB in five years, it won't matter how good Curry is, we will still probably suck.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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They passed on several guys that would have brought talent to the linebacking corp which is what they needed and continue to need going into this offseason. Drafting Matthews takes away Butler since the Packers 2nd round pick is what the Pats used to pick Butler. Whats a secondary's best friend? A good pass rush. Having players that can get to the quarterback can mask some deficiencies in the secondary. I'm a fan of Butler fwiw but it sucks to see a guy get 10 sacks drafted in the spot you just traded out of. But I agree last years draft will look better if we actually draft some of these 3-4 prospects.
its a marathon not a sprint. think about it, they got themselves a good CB, and this year can get quality guys for their front 7 in a front 7 heavy draft. and they have tons of ammo to do it.

the cb class this year is very weak. and they needed CBs anyway. so they got better value taking one last year.

and oddly enough, Bellichick doesn't invest very highly on pass rushing OLBs. He puts emphasis on his dline and his secondary. So I don't think Matthews was ever in their plans to begin with. The last dominant pass rusher you had was McGinest, and he was drafted by Parcells.

That was a loooong time ago. Let's see what he does this year. Also, don't forget, the guy saved a ton of money, and had no 1st round picks which means less guaranteed money dished out. He played it smart. I rather invest heavy in the 2nd round personally then the 1st anyway. The quality of the talent is almost the same, and you spend way less investing in those guys.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Maybin I guess...but all along I felt he would be a huge bust long term
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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-Andre Smith: Didn't even see the field. I love his potential though. He was my favorite LT in the draft but his character concerns are an issue.
Many people didn't see Andre Smith this year, but that's mostly because OL don't show up in the stat sheet and there wasn't much buzz in the media when he actually did get on the field. After holding out, then breaking his foot two days later, he eventually got healthy and got with the program.

By Week 10 he was healthy and ready to play, so they began deactivating a solid lineman in Anthony Collins. Dennis Roland played most of the snaps at RT this year and was great. That's really the only thing that kept Andre Smith from starting. He forced himself into the active roster, then eventually on to the field the last six games of the season and the playoff game, playing increasing snaps and an increased role in each game. I don't have the numbers, but he was on the field for a great number of plays Saturday and lined up at RT (with Dennis Roland or Andrew Whitworth moving to a TE spot functioning as a 6th OL). Smith's jumbo package was huge for Cedric Benson. He also looks good, and plenty athletic for a pass blocker.

Next year, I'm sure he'll be in the starting lineup from training camp. I'm very excited about his future, as his talent definitely showed.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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i'm shocked he didn't replace him this year. light has been horrible for the last two seasons.

(i think he played some RT, which may be part of the explanation)
Yeah. I used to be a Light apologist, but he's got to go. He's done.

The Pats are in trouble. They're old on offense, and young and average on defense right now.

I think their defense will become high caliber in a year or 2 with more growth, but their offense will fall off and never be what it was 2 years ago, or even last year.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I liked Knowshon Moreno as a prospect. I'm really surprised that his vision seems to be a problem so far considering that was one of his strengths in college.
I don't think his vision is a problem. I just don't think he's used to having 2-3 defensive players roaming the backfield immediately after the handoff. It is hard to express how truely ****** the interior OL play was this year. That isn't exactly going to put a rookie in a position to succeed.

To be fair, though, Knowshon would've really benefited from a full TC this year. He wasn't familiar enough with the system and definitely could've used the conditioning as he definitely wore down toward the end of the season.

Overall, the run game was in chaos this year. With a new interior OL and a new OL coach who is on the same wavelength as the HC (Dennision is gone for sure), I expect we'll see more consistency in 2010.

Back to the thread title, I don't see how he could be one of the biggest disappointments - 900+ rushing, 200+ passing and 9 TD's. Seems like a decent rookie season considering the issues outlined above.
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