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Old 01-11-2010, 12:35 AM    (permalink
Shiver
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Best - Kurt Warner
Worst - Peyton Manning by a mile; seriously, the best QB in history cannot even have a winning record in the post-season? His passer rating is ten points worse in those games than in the regular season, with a TD/INT of 22/17. We all know Rex Grossman sucks, but I expect more from a QB of Manning's caliber.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Quincy Carter = Worst
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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If we were judging qbs by the number of balls thrown into the dirt in NFC championship games, then McNabb would top my list.
I can only speak for me, but I only considered the QBs with a solid body of work playoff wise and that basically narrowed it to 4 for me, it's a tossup between McNabb and Manning for the "worst" of that group.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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I consider myself a stat person, so thought I'd do some number crunching. So going back to '99 playoffs (the Rams/Titans Super Bowl), I did some number crunching, to find out the average playoff stats of the following QBs: Brady, Brees, McNabb, Peyton, Rivers, Roethlisberger, & Warner. So, we can look at the stats of each QB, & decide who averages the best game.

QB#1 24/37 306yds 2.3TDs 1.5Ints Warner
QB#2 23/37 284yds 1.6TDs 1.2Ints Peyton

QB#3 18/32 254yds 1.2TDs 1.2Ints Rivers
QB#4 21/36 231yds 1.5TDs 1.1Ints McNabb

QB#5 22/35 238yds 1.5TDs .75Ints Brady
QB#6 26/41 305yds 1.25TDs .66Ints Brees

QB#7 17/28 224yds 1.5TDs 1.2Ints Roethlisberger


Based on these numbers, I think the I would order them 1, 5, 6, 2, 4, 3, 7, from first to worst. As to not leave people wondering, if you highlight stat lines with your mouse, I identified each stat line off to the side in white.

The point I wanted to make when I started this that Peyton's had some pretty great playoff performances. In '03, he had two games in a row, where the Colts didn't punt, and I don't believe had a single turnover. Peyton was a combined 44/56, 681 yds, 8 TDs, 0 picks. Granted those playoffs ended with a poor performance, which everyone seems to remember better. But let's not discount the great games, even in losing efforts he's had.

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Old 01-11-2010, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutboy14 View Post
I consider myself a stat person, so thought I'd do some number crunching. So going back to '99 playoffs (the Rams/Titans Super Bowl), I did some number crunching, to find out the average playoff stats of the following QBs: Brady, Brees, McNabb, Peyton, Rivers, Roethlisberger, & Warner. So, we can look at the stats of each QB, & decide who averages the best game.

QB#1 24/37 306yds 2.3TDs 1.5Ints Warner
QB#2 23/37 284yds 1.6TDs 1.2Ints Peyton

QB#3 18/32 254yds 1.2TDs 1.2Ints Rivers
QB#4 21/36 231yds 1.5TDs 1.1Ints McNabb

QB#5 22/35 238yds 1.5TDs .75Ints Brady
QB#6 26/41 305yds 1.25TDs .66Ints Brees

QB#7 17/28 224yds 1.5TDs 1.2Ints Roethlisberger


Based on these numbers, I think the I would order them 1, 5, 2, 4, 3, 7, from first to worst. As to not leave people wondering, if you highlight stat lines with your mouse, I identified each stat line off to the side in white.

The point I wanted to make when I started this that Peyton's had some pretty great playoff performances. In '03, he had two games in a row, where the Colts didn't punt, and I don't believe had a single turnover. Peyton was a combined 44/56, 681 yds, 8 TDs, 0 picks. Granted those playoffs ended with a poor performance, which everyone seems to remember better. But let's not discount the great games, even in losing efforts he's had.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Peyton sure does love playing Denver and Kansas City in the playoffs. 4 of his 6 wins and his best numbers come from those games.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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Took me ages.... But yeah

Brad Johnson
22/36 202 0 / 4
15/31 196 2 / 1
20/33 259 1 / 1
18/34 215 2 / 1

Donovan McNabb
16/25 194 2 / 1
26/40 262 2 / 1
18/30 171 1 / 1
20/30 247 1 / 0
26/49 243 0 / 1
21/39 248 2 / 0
10/22 100 0 / 3
21/33 286 2 / 0
17/26 180 2 / 0
30/51 357 3 / 3
17/31 153 1 / 0
23/34 300 1 / 1
22/40 217 1 / 2
28/47 375 3 / 1
19/37 230 1 / 1

Koy Detmer
7/14 88 0 / 1
1/1 3 0 / 0

Vinny Testaverde
26/40 268 3 / 0

Rich Gannon
23/29 294 2 / 0
17/31 159 1 / 0
20/30 283 2 / 1
29/41 286 3 / 0
24/44 272 2 / 5

Jeff Garcia
22/32 233 1 / 1
22/41 193 0 / 3
27/44 331 3 / 1
15/30 240 1 / 0
23/39 207 1 / 2

Brett Farve
22/29 269 2 / 1
26/44 281 2 / 6
20/42 247 1 / 2
26/38 319 1 / 0
15/28 180 2 / 1
22/33 216 1 / 4
18/23 173 3 / 0
19/35 236 2 / 2

Elvis Grbac
12/18 133 1 / 0
18/37 153 0 / 3

Jay Fiedler
15/28 122 0 / 1

Shaun Matthews
8/17 66 0 / 2

Jim Miller
3/5 23 0 / 1

Tom Brady
32/52 312 0 / 1
12/18 115 0 / 0
16/27 145 1 / 0
21/41 201 1 / 0
22/37 237 1 / 1
32/48 354 3 / 1
18/27 144 1 / 0
14/21 207 2 / 0
23/33 236 2 / 0
15/27 201 3 / 0
20/36 341 1 / 2
22/34 212 2 / 0
27/51 280 2 / 3
21/34 232 1 / 1
26/28 262 3 / 0
22/33 209 2 / 3
29/48 266 1 / 0
23/42 154 2 / 3

Drew Bledsoe
10/21 102 1 / 0

Kordell Stewart
12/22 154 1 / 1
24/42 255 0 / 3

Kurt Warner
18/30 216 2 / 1
22/33 212 1 / 0
28/44 365 1 / 2
19/32 271 2 / 1
21/32 220 2 / 1
21/28 279 4 / 0
31/43 377 3 / 1
29/33 379 5 / 0

Peyton Manning
14/31 137 0 / 2
22/26 377 5 / 0
22/30 304 3 / 0
23/47 237 1 / 4
27/43 458 4 / 1
27/42 238 0 / 1
22/38 290 1 / 0
30/38 268 1 / 3
15/30 170 0 / 2
27/47 349 1 / 1
25/38 247 1 / 1
33/48 402 3 / 2
25/42 310 1 / 0

Chad Pennington
19/25 222 3 / 0
21/47 183 1 / 2
23/33 279 2 / 0
21/33 182 0 / 1
23/40 300 1 / 1
25/38 252 1 / 4

Brock Huard
4/5 17 0 / 0

Michael Vick
13/25 117 1 / 0
22/38 274 0 / 2
12/16 82 2 / 0
11/24 136 0 / 1

Kelly Holcomb
26/43 429 3 / 1

Tommy Maddox
30/48 367 3 / 2
21/41 266 2 / 1

Steve McNair
27/44 338 2 / 2
21/36 194 1 / 0
14/23 159 1 / 3
18/26 210 1 / 1
18/29 173 0 / 2

Kerry Collins
29/43 342 4 / 1
26/42 281 0 / 1

Anthony Wright
20/37 214 1 / 2

Quincy Carter
21/36 154 0 / 1

Jake Delhomme
18/29 273 1 / 0
16/26 290 1 / 1
9/14 101 1 / 0
16/33 323 3 / 0
15/22 140 1 / 0
24/33 319 3 / 1
15/35 196 1 / 3
17/34 205 1 / 5

Matt Hasselbeck
25/45 305 0 / 1
27/43 341 2 / 1
16/26 215 1 / 0
20/28 219 2 / 0
26/49 273 1 / 1
18/36 240 2 / 2
18/33 195 1 / 1
20/32 229 1 / 2
19/33 194 1 / 0

Jake Plummer
23/30 181 1 / 2
24/34 284 2 / 1
15/26 197 1 / 1
18/30 223 1 / 2

Marc Bulger
27/46 332 0 / 3
18/32 313 2 / 1
23/35 299 2 / 1

Trent Green
18/30 212 1 / 0
14/24 107 1 / 2

Drew Brees
31/42 319 2 / 1
20/32 243 1 / 0
27/49 354 2 / 1

Daunte Culpepper
19/29 284 4 / 0
24/46 316 1 / 2

Ben Roethlisberger
17/30 181 1 / 2
14/24 226 2 / 3
14/19 208 3 / 0
14/24 197 2 / 1
21/29 275 2 / 0
9/21 123 0 / 2
29/42 337 2 / 3
17/26 181 1 / 0
16/33 255 1 / 0
21/30 256 1 / 1

Mark Brunell
7/15 41 0 / 1
22/37 242 1 / 0

Chris Simms
25/38 198 0 / 2

Byron Leftwich
18/31 179 0 / 1

David Garrard
3/8 68 0 / 0
9/21 140 1 / 2
22/33 278 2 / 1

Eli Manning
10/18 113 0 / 3
16/27 161 2 / 1
20/27 185 2 / 0
12/18 163 2 / 0
21/40 254 0 / 0
19/34 255 2 / 1
15/29 169 0 / 2

Jon Kitna
24/40 197 1 / 2

Carson Palmer
1/1 66 0 / 0
18/36 146 1 / 1

Rex Grossman
17/41 192 1 / 1
21/38 282 1 / 1
11/26 144 1 / 0
20/28 165 1 / 2

Tony Romo
17/29 189 1 / 0
18/36 201 1 / 1
23/35 244 2 / 0

Philip Rivers
14/32 230 0 / 1
19/30 292 1 / 1
14/19 264 2 / 1
19/37 211 0 / 2
20/36 217 0 / 1
21/35 308 3 / 1

Billy Volek
3/4 48 0 / 0

Todd Collins
29/50 266 2 / 2

Vince Young
16/29 138 0 / 1

Matt Ryan
26/40 199 2 / 2

Joe Flacco
9/23 135 0 / 0
11/22 161 1 / 0
13/30 141 0 / 3
4/10 34 0 / 1

Tavaris Jackson
15/35 164 0 / 1

Mark Sanchez
12/15 182 1 / 0

Aaron Rodgers
28/42 422 4 / 1
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wogitalia View Post
Cool topic.

From memory Warner's production in the playoffs is better than the regular season. It is also historically good. That for me gives him my vote.

Brady has basically maintained his regular season level, which is actually quite the achievement in the playoffs.

Manning has generally played at a lower level.

This is not based on any statistics, for all I know they could prove the complete opposite, but having watched all 3, that is how I feel on them. McNabb is the other guy in the discussion and may very well be the worst of the decade.

I only really considered those 4 as they are the only guys with enough games for me to consider. Roethlisberger probably also deserves a mention, but he gets next to no credit for the 1st run. 2nd run he was good.
Big Ben played the best football I have EVER seen him play on the first Super Bowl season. Completed 63 percent, 803 yards, 7 tds to 3 picks, 2 rushing touchdowns, and not to mention a season saving tackle.

He was good last season in the playoffs, but nothing like the '05 season. The Super Bowl wasn't that good, but the first three games were lights out.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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Big Ben played the best football I have EVER seen him play on the first Super Bowl season. Completed 63 percent, 803 yards, 7 tds to 3 picks, 2 rushing touchdowns, and not to mention a season saving tackle.

He was good last season in the playoffs, but nothing like the '05 season. The Super Bowl wasn't that good, but the first three games were lights out.
Everyone forgets how Ben (and not the run game) won those games in Indy and Denver. He was terrible in the Superbowl, but without him the Steelers never get there in the first place.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Best - Kurt Warner
Worst - Peyton Manning by a mile; seriously, the best QB in history cannot even have a winning record in the post-season? His passer rating is ten points worse in those games than in the regular season, with a TD/INT of 22/17. We all know Rex Grossman sucks, but I expect more from a QB of Manning's caliber.
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Peyton sure does love playing Denver and Kansas City in the playoffs. 4 of his 6 wins and his best numbers come from those games.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been screaming this from the top of the mountaintop for years now, but Peyton's regular season brilliance keeps blinding them to the truth about him: he's just not that good (or as good) when the games matter.

He's the A-Rod of football. There, I said it.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Warner and Brady. Grossman is the worst.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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He's the A-Rod of football. There, I said it.
Are you trying to tell us that he is gonna win the super bowl this year? ;)
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Are you trying to tell us that he is gonna win the super bowl this year? ;)
I knew I was going to get that. A-Rod's World Series win kind of dates the comparison, seeing as how he finally had a postseason that wasn't completely forgettable. But hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Best of the last ten years:

Warner, Big Ben, Brady

Not all the time were they effective, not all the time did they blow up the scoreboards with gaudy numbers and points, but lets face it, on more than one occasion these were the guys who had a massive amount of pressure placed upon them with the game on the line and they rose to the occasion.

They weren't always perfect, but if I was picking a guy to lead my team in the 4th qtr down by a couple, these guys would be my top three choices and that says it all.

Homer delhomme defense: Up until his last two playoff games Delhomme was near perfect in the post season, and while I'm not saying he should be in the mix with the guys above, he certainly isn't one of the worst and shouldn't be considered so.

His performance against arizona was a meltdown, but outside of that game and the seattle game where the team quite literally fell apart around him, he had been one of the best in the post season of the last decade.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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This is from the Cards website.

Warner’s all-time postseason passer rating is 104.6, a shade behind the 104.8 posted by Packers’ Hall of Famer Bart Starr. In just 12 playoff games in his career, Warner has completed 290-of-436 passes for 3,747 yards, 31 touchdowns and just 13 interceptions.

His completion percentage of 66.5 is highest in NFL playoff history, his 31 touchdowns is fourth all-time behind Joe Montana (45 in 23 games), Brett Favre (39 in 22) and Dan Marino (32 in 18).

He’s been even better overall with the Cardinals. In five playoff games, he’s completed 72 percent of his passes for 1,526 yards, 16 touchdowns, just three interceptions and a passing rating of 124.3.

Oh, and his postseason record in those 12 games is 9-3.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Personally I don't see how someone who has won a Super Bowl can be the worst playoff quarterback.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:06 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Personally I don't see how someone who has won a Super Bowl can be the worst playoff quarterback.


he wasnt that great.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been screaming this from the top of the mountaintop for years now, but Peyton's regular season brilliance keeps blinding them to the truth about him: he's just not that good (or as good) when the games matter.

He's the A-Rod of football. There, I said it.
I've also been on this bandwagon. Preach!
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Personally I don't see how someone who has won a Super Bowl can be the worst playoff quarterback.
Because the only reason Manning won his SB was because of the dominance of Dom Rhodes and Joseph Addai in the SB. Rhodes ran for 113 yards and a touchdown and Addai had 143 total yards. Only Peyton Manning could win a SB MVP in a game where he contributed one touchdown to two turnovers.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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he wasnt that great.

No but he played well enough to win the Super Bowl, something 11 other quarterbacks in that year's playoffs can't say.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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No but he played well enough to win the Super Bowl, something 11 other quarterbacks in that year's playoffs can't say.
He also didn't have much time to get ready. Phil got hurt in week 13 or 14, I forget which. Hostetler was far from great, but I give him credit for coming in so late in the season and being the QB of a Super Bowl winning team. But it was the defense that won that Super Bowl. They beat the crap out of that high scoring Bills offense.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Because the only reason Manning won his SB was because of the dominance of Dom Rhodes and Joseph Addai in the SB. Rhodes ran for 113 yards and a touchdown and Addai had 143 total yards. Only Peyton Manning could win a SB MVP in a game where he contributed one touchdown to two turnovers.
I don't get why people (in all sports) like to force awards upon great players when they don't deserve them. Rex Grossman had a better completion percentage and the same touchdown to turnover ratio as Manning in that game.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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It is pretty amusing that the Colts won their only Superbowl with defense and playing ball control offense. Manning had an amazing second half against the Pats and a solid Superbowl, but he played very poorly against Kansas City, Baltimore, and during the first half of that Pats game.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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I don't get why people (in all sports) like to force awards upon great players when they don't deserve them. Rex Grossman had a better completion percentage and the same touchdown to turnover ratio as Manning in that game.
It was a lifetime achievement award. Like, hey, we know you've sucked big ones in the playoffs for the majority of your career, but you're the most recognizable player in this game and people know that you've ****** **** up in the regular season, so here you go!
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Everyone forgets how Ben (and not the run game) won those games in Indy and Denver. He was terrible in the Superbowl, but without him the Steelers never get there in the first place.
Yeah, it was all Big Ben, not the fact that Jake Plummer had 4 turnovers in the game that practically gave the game to the Steelers.

For that, I would like to nominate Jake Plummer for worst QB.
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