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Old 01-12-2010, 01:41 AM    (permalink
TornadoRex
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Default Someone make me feel better about Eric Berry

So... I think it's fair to say that there's a good chance that we miss out on Suh, and to a lesser extent, Gerald McCoy as well. That leaves us with few options at #3, but most seem perfectly content with Eric Berry.

I've wavered a lot in my opinion of Eric Berry. I went from Suh-homer to BPA to "Well.. I guess Berry wouldn't be that bad of a pick, to now "We deserve to suck as bad as we do if we're going to take a Tampa 2 safety at #3".

I get that he's great with the ball in the air. He can make plays that most can't. My issues with Berry are that

A: He's still a safety and we still run a primarily zone defense.
B: He rarely wraps up and goes for the big hit far too often.
C: He regressed in his junior season.
D: ...He's still a safety and we still run a primarily zone defense.

I personally don't think he's Ed Reed - that's just my opinion. I don't think he's a $50M 21 year old, either. If we pass on Suh, McCoy, or Okung for Berry.. I can't say I won't feel a bit disappointed in the pick.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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I actually feel the same way. I think Berry is a great player and would provide a boost to our defense, but is he really necessary?

Remember a great defensive line in a Tampa 2 system makes the secondary look a lot better. Our line, when anchored by the likes of Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Chidi Ahanatou, etc made John Lynch (3rd round pick) look like a borderline Hall of Famer, Brian Kelly (2nd rounder) look like a Pro Bowler, Dexter Jackson (4th round pick) the Super Bowl MVP. In fact, outside of Talib, I can't remember the last time the Buccaneers selected a defensive back in the first round.

Our defensive line currently stinks. Nobody can claim otherwise. With the above facts in mind, why would anyone support drafting a defensive back over a defensive lineman? If both Suh and McCoy are gone, I'd be far more comfortable with the Buccaneers trading down with the Seahawks to select Derrick Morgan. If we're able to swing both of their first rounders in the trade, we could select Brian Price in the first as well, to provide our defensive line and, by extension, our entire defense with a nice boost in talent.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Berry is just a playmaker and at #3, we don't have a whole lot of options. Derrick Morgan doesn't scream anything that early in the draft and assuming we resign Penn, do we want a RT with out 3rd pick? Haden fits into the whole Derrick Morgan category too.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm on the Berry bandwagon with Caddy if Suh and McCoy are gone.

I think he helps our defense out more than anyone else in the draft besides the two aforementioned. Yes, we do run a variation of the Tampa 2 now, but it's not like the old Tampa 2. It seems like Raheem is getting a little more creative with formations since he took over. I believe with a true playmaker like Berry, he'll make him very useful.

As for him 'regressing' his junior year, I think it was because Tennessee used him more in the box and sometimes almost as a 4th LB. This limited his opportunities to make plays on the ball thus his drop in interceptions this year. His tackle numbers were still there this season though.

If his tackling is that big of an issue at the next level, I still think that he could work at just as well at CB. I actually believe he could be an elite CB in this league if he made the switch.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Well if you think Sabby isn't a big problem then I can see why you are hesitant for Berry. I personally do think he is Ed Reed good and think that he could start right now for us. I agree tho if either Suh or McCoy are there you have to take one of them, no matter how much I like the idea of Berry and TJ as our safties...
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Well if you think Sabby isn't a big problem then I can see why you are hesitant for Berry.
Sabby is a big problem, but that's not the point.

I think what Rex is trying to point out is that the scheme we're using has made mid-round players in the secondary look like Pro Bowlers with a good defensive line. The reverse isn't true. Therefore, logic dictates that you look to improve the defensive line with top-tier talent and upgrade the secondary later in the draft.

Remember, the safety class is quite deep this year. Berry is clearly in a class of his own, but there are many prospects capable of being solid starters. Personally, I'm a fan of Robert Johnson (Utah) and Darrell Stuckey (Kansas).
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Maybe if we bring in Berry we'll modify our coverage schemes to accommodate him?
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Well if you think Sabby isn't a big problem then I can see why you are hesitant for Berry.

Sabby is a big problem, but that's not the point.

I think what Rex is trying to point out is that the scheme we're using has made mid-round players in the secondary look like Pro Bowlers with a good defensive line. The reverse isn't true. Therefore, logic dictates that you look to improve the defensive line with top-tier talent and upgrade the secondary later in the draft.

Remember, the safety class is quite deep this year. Berry is clearly in a class of his own, but there are many prospects capable of being solid starters. Personally, I'm a fan of Robert Johnson (Utah) and Darrell Stuckey (Kansas).
I agree but I was trying to make Rex feel better...lol. Assuming that Suh and McCoy are gone Berry is the best choice imo, arguebly the best overall player in the draft and he fills a need. If the DTs are gone when we pick I wouldn't mind trading down and picking up extra picks and getting a DT or DE in the middle of the first. But I wouldn't be heartbroken if we got Berry...

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Old 01-12-2010, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I said this ten times, if Suh and McCoy are gone by three we should take Derrick Morgan!!! The guy single handily took over two games this year sept 10th against the Tigers and the Wake Forest game. As a pass rusher he's very good but he's just as good against the run.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Dude, not to get you all upset but, who the hell does WF and Clemson have on their O-lines that anyone would consider good?
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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u have a TB avy & a STL Rams sig? explain
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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huh?

Last I checked I had Suh as my signature and a Gator avatar.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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u have a TB avy & a STL Rams sig? explain
Rex's Ram sig is a holdover from the regular season. He was using it on the official Tampa Bay Bucs board because we were all rooting for the Rams by midseason because we wanted them to win in order to us to get a better draft pick.

He's definitely a Buccaneers fan.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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So is that where this influx of Bucs posters came from? The Bucs official website forum?
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Dude, not to get you all upset but, who the hell does WF and Clemson have on their O-lines that anyone would consider good?
Does Missouri or Texas have someone on it? Cause when Suh took over those games we all said OMG!!!
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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So is that where this influx of Bucs posters came from? The Bucs official website forum?
Rex, Irish and I are from the official forum. I'm not sure of any of the other members here are from there, but I don't recognize any of the other usernamers of people posting in this forum.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Rex, Irish and I are from the official forum. I'm not sure of any of the other members here are from there, but I don't recognize any of the other usernamers of people posting in this forum.
I posted there a few years ago but it was in my opinion, a crappy environment.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I posted there a few years ago but it was in my opinion, a crappy environment.
Your mum's a crappy environment.

Regarding Berry, I look at it this way: Berry used to the best of his ability is better than any other option at 3 used to the best of their ability, if both Suh and McCoy are gone. Since, however, safeties are not a priority in the T2 we used to run, we need to adjust what we run to maximise his talents. He is insanely versatile from everything I'm hearing, and I challenge anyone not to salivate at the thought of Tanard and Sabby (who improved when Raheem took over the D) playing deep, Ronde in the slot with Talib and Berry on the outside. Or some other combo with those five players on the field at the same time. I'm not paid millions to be a genius defensive mind.

The point is Berry is part of that upper tier of impeccable talent in this draft, which in my opinion consists of him, Suh and McCoy, since I don't know much about Okung. We need a talent transfusion, period. If the two DTs are gone, you take Berry and mould your defense around his talents. Am I insane for thinking we should watch every second of tape of Charles Woodson during his Packers tenure and on it base a potential model for using Berry?
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Your mum's a crappy environment.

Regarding Berry, I look at it this way: Berry used to the best of his ability is better than any other option at 3 used to the best of their ability, if both Suh and McCoy are gone. Since, however, safeties are not a priority in the T2 we used to run, we need to adjust what we run to maximise his talents. He is insanely versatile from everything I'm hearing, and I challenge anyone not to salivate at the thought of Tanard and Sabby (who improved when Raheem took over the D) playing deep, Ronde in the slot with Talib and Berry on the outside. Or some other combo with those five players on the field at the same time. I'm not paid millions to be a genius defensive mind.

The point is Berry is part of that upper tier of impeccable talent in this draft, which in my opinion consists of him, Suh and McCoy, since I don't know much about Okung. We need a talent transfusion, period. If the two DTs are gone, you take Berry and mould your defense around his talents. Am I insane for thinking we should watch every second of tape of Charles Woodson during his Packers tenure and on it base a potential model for using Berry?
Exactly what I'm talking about.

You do that stuff around here regularly and you'll find yourself on a one way trip to banville.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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What do you think the chances if Suh and McCoy are gone, we go Okung?
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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What do you think the chances if Suh and McCoy are gone, we go Okung?
Depends almost entirely on whether or not we re-sign Penn.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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What do you think the chances if Suh and McCoy are gone, we go Okung?

Depends almost entirely on whether or not we re-sign Penn.
I could be mistaken but isn't Trueblood a FA also?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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Exactly what I'm talking about.

You do that stuff around here regularly and you'll find yourself on a one way trip to banville.
No worries, Caddy. Irish is good people, it was in jest. :p

I can't speak for Legacy or IBF, but I'm posting around here so I can tone it down a few notches. The TBBBBB is a rough place, and I'd like to be able to have some conversation without baring my teeth every now and then!
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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What do you think the chances if Suh and McCoy are gone, we go Okung?
I think that's the move we make, honestly. I'm taking what Raheem said in his end-of-season PC to heart; "#5 is the first priority."

I think we replace Trueblood with Okung and put the heat on Donald Penn to get his butt back in shape.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm on the Berry bandwagon with Caddy if Suh and McCoy are gone.

I think he helps our defense out more than anyone else in the draft besides the two aforementioned. Yes, we do run a variation of the Tampa 2 now, but it's not like the old Tampa 2. It seems like Raheem is getting a little more creative with formations since he took over. I believe with a true playmaker like Berry, he'll make him very useful.

As for him 'regressing' his junior year, I think it was because Tennessee used him more in the box and sometimes almost as a 4th LB. This limited his opportunities to make plays on the ball thus his drop in interceptions this year. His tackle numbers were still there this season though.

If his tackling is that big of an issue at the next level, I still think that he could work at just as well at CB. I actually believe he could be an elite CB in this league if he made the switch.
Nice post, I can agree with this. I also think he'd be the best pure corner in the draft, but I wouldn't want to go wagering that with what looks to be a cornerstone of this franchise. We can either bring this team back this April, or push us further down into obscurity.
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