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Old 01-23-2010, 01:16 PM    (permalink
KennyG
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Here's my updated Buc's mock..
The Dez Bryant pick is assuming Suh and McCoy go 1-2... I am starting to get on board with taking Bryant over Berry, McClain or Okung ... I am sure everyone will kill me on that pick but if you can take the next "Andre Johnson" when WR is argubly the 2nd biggest need then we should jump on that pick, especially when the draft is so deep on the Defensive side...

1. Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma ST
2a. Jared Odrick DT Penn State
2b. Willie Young DE North Carolina State
3. Darrell Stuckey S Kansas
4. Sam Young OT Notre Dame
5. Ben Tate RB Auburn
6. A.J. Wallace CB Penn State
7a. Best available DT
7b. Best available DE
7c. Best available LB
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:00 PM    (permalink
brasho
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He is NOT the next Andre Johnson. Johnson was much more stout and far faster coming out... plus he didn't have Michael Crabtree's agent as his agent.

Bryant is not worth the #3... and he is already a diva headache WR in the making.

Hate the rest of your draft, too BTW.

Here's what I got... assuming Suh and McCoy are gone, I pray that we trade down to pick #15 or so and take a player that is just as good and might be even better than both of them... UCLA DT Brian Price

Not counting the extra picks (let's assume we get a 2011 #1 or something)

We go

2a-WR Mardy Gilyard
2b-DE Greg Hardy
3-CB Javier Arenas
4-LB Pat Angerer
5-OG/OT Brandon Carter
6-DE Brandon Sharpe
7a-Best CB/S available
7b-WR Freddie Barnes
7c-Best K available

Last edited by brasho : 01-23-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:16 PM    (permalink
KennyG
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He is NOT the next Andre Johnson. Johnson was much more stout and far faster coming out... plus he didn't have Michael Crabtree's agent as his agent.

Bryant is not worth the #3... and he is already a diva headache WR in the making.

Only reason he isn't projected as a top 5 pick is becasuse he missed most of the year... He plays faster then his 40 time but your right, he dosn't have "elite speed".... I am not sure who is worth #3 pick other then Suh and McCoy... I just think Bryant gives us the best impact player after Suh and McCoy, especially when you consider that you can get a good DE and DT in the 2nd round.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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You don't draft a WR you're not totally sold on in the top 5. That is a tricky position with a big bust factor... and Bryant reeks of trouble. He was an idiot and lied to the NCAA (stupid), he signed with Deion and Crabtree's agent (hold out), and he's already referring to himself in the 3rd person (diva). I want NOTHING to do with Bryant, even if he were to slip into round 2. He'll make Brandon Marshall look smart, Crabtree's holdout seem like nothing, and Braylon Edwards seem like a team player.


Not only that, he played in OSU's spread which means he hasn't run many pro routes and would have a major adjustment to make. Then there's the lack of elite speed thing... I'm not even sure he has good speed.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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He is NOT the next Andre Johnson. Johnson was much more stout and far faster coming out... plus he didn't have Michael Crabtree's agent as his agent.

Bryant is not worth the #3... and he is already a diva headache WR in the making.

Hate the rest of your draft, too BTW.

Here's what I got... assuming Suh and McCoy are gone, I pray that we trade down to pick #15 or so and take a player that is just as good and might be even better than both of them... UCLA DT Brian Price

Not counting the extra picks (let's assume we get a 2011 #1 or something)

We go

2a-WR Mardy Gilyard
2b-DE Greg Hardy
3-CB Javier Arenas
4-LB Pat Angerer
5-OG/OT Brandon Carter
6-DE Brandon Sharpe
7a-Best CB/S available
7b-Best WR available
7c-Best K available
As far as your draft I wouldn't mind trading down... Like the Price pick, Gilyard projects as a slot WR and looks like Sammie is our slot guy - rather see D. Thomas or Briscoe but I guess can't really complain all that much if we got Gilyard, Hardy is another question mark but I wouldn't mind him if he looks totally healthy and has a good combine, rest of the picks our fine but would hope we pick a Saftey with one of first 5 picks as we will probably be able to get a really good Saftey with one of them...
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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The 2nd round is where the question marks begin, if there were no question marks they would be 1st rounders. I'm not sure Gilyard is a slot guy... but I also like D. Thomas (though he seems to be a big-time project) and I really like Dezmon Briscoe.

I think Arenas will run poorly at the combine and will fall to round 3, which we will then have to jump on him. If he isn't there I can see Kam Chancellor or another S there.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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For the record, if by chance we picked Eric Berry or somebody else not named Brian Price, Suh or McCoy in round 1, which would have me screaming and cussing as badly as when we drafted Adams over Patrick Willis, I truly believe that DT Lamarr Houston of Texas could be as good as an UT prospect in the draft. He hasn't played the DL for very long and has only been a DT for 2 seasons... also he played the single best bowl game of any DT in the country IMO.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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I look at it this way too - What is the drop off of play from Dez Bryant to Mardy Gilyard? And what is the drop off of play from Brian Price to lets say Arthur Jones or Dan Williams?

I just think there is more of a drop off at WR then DT.... And if I am not mistaken I think Gilyard played in the spread too... I think after the combine Dez's stock will shoot up a lot... And as far as the agent stuff i would hope that we would start the contract talk before we drafted him so we don't have a Crabtree incident...

But don't get me wrong, I knew no one would agree with me on the Dez pick and I understand where your coming from....

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Old 01-23-2010, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Here's a (somewhat unlikely) scenario I'd really like:

- The Rams and Lions select Suh and McCoy, respectively.

- The Buffalo Bills wish to trade up to select Jimmy Clausen. The Buccaneers trade the 3rd overall pick to the Buffalo Bills for the 9th and 41st overall picks.

- The Buccaneers trade the 41st and 43rd overall picks to the Tennessee Titans for the 16th overall pick.


1a - Derrick Morgan (DE, Georgia Tech)
1b - Brian Price (DT, UCLA)
2 - Damian Williams (WR, Southern California)
3 - Tyson Aualu (DT, California)
4 - Kyle Calloway (OT, Iowa)
5 - Syd'Quan Thompson (CB, California)
6 - Robert Johnson (S, Utah)
7 - Zoltan Mesko (P, Michigan)
7 - A.J. Wallace (CB, Penn State)
7 - Andrew Quarless (TE, Penn State)


With this draft, we'd provide a massive boost to the interior defensive line. A rotation of Brian Price, Roy Miller and Tyson Alualu could shape up to be fantastic. Derrick Morgan would also provide us with an above average pass rusher at defensive end, which we sorely need. Couple that with the three secondary picks and there's a large influx of new talent on the defensive side of the ball with this scenario.

On the offensive side, Williams will probably end up being a solid #2 at worst, which is much better than anyone else we have on the roster. Stroughter is coming along nicely, but probably won't ever be anything more than a slot receiver. Calloway provides depth and could transition to the guard position if needed, but might also be able to push Trueblood for the starting RT spot. Quarless is a project, but could provide the Bucs with a good option as a receiver when Winslow rotates out or is lined up at TE.

As for Mesko, there's no guarantee that Bidwell comes back and Dirk Johnson isn't cutting it. Mesko is the best punter in the draft, so he's worth the pick at what could end up being a need. The last thing we need is a musical chairs situation at punter like we had at the kicking position early in the 2009 season.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Here's a (somewhat unlikely) scenario I'd really like:

- The Rams and Lions select Suh and McCoy, respectively.

- The Buffalo Bills wish to trade up to select Jimmy Clausen. The Buccaneers trade the 3rd overall pick to the Buffalo Bills for the 9th and 41st overall picks.

- The Buccaneers trade the 41st and 43rd overall picks to the Tennessee Titans for the 16th overall pick.


1a - Derrick Morgan (DE, Georgia Tech)
1b - Brian Price (DT, UCLA)
2 - Damian Williams (WR, Southern California)
3 - Tyson Aualu (DT, California)
4 - Kyle Calloway (OT, Iowa)
5 - Syd'Quan Thompson (CB, California)
6 - Robert Johnson (S, Utah)
7 - Zoltan Mesko (P, Michigan)
7 - A.J. Wallace (CB, Penn State)
7 - Andrew Quarless (TE, Penn State)


With this draft, we'd provide a massive boost to the interior defensive line. A rotation of Brian Price, Roy Miller and Tyson Alualu could shape up to be fantastic. Derrick Morgan would also provide us with an above average pass rusher at defensive end, which we sorely need. Couple that with the three secondary picks and there's a large influx of new talent on the defensive side of the ball with this scenario.

On the offensive side, Williams will probably end up being a solid #2 at worst, which is much better than anyone else we have on the roster. Stroughter is coming along nicely, but probably won't ever be anything more than a slot receiver. Calloway provides depth and could transition to the guard position if needed, but might also be able to push Trueblood for the starting RT spot. Quarless is a project, but could provide the Bucs with a good option as a receiver when Winslow rotates out or is lined up at TE.

As for Mesko, there's no guarantee that Bidwell comes back and Dirk Johnson isn't cutting it. Mesko is the best punter in the draft, so he's worth the pick at what could end up being a need. The last thing we need is a musical chairs situation at punter like we had at the kicking position early in the 2009 season.
Seems incredibly optimistic to me. But in saying that I wouldn't be disappointed if something like that happened.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Seems incredibly optimistic to me. But in saying that I wouldn't be disappointed if something like that happened.
Oh, I agree with that. No harm in being a glass half-full kind of guy, though. ;)

I'll probably work up a more realistic Bucs mock later.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Oh, I agree with that. No harm in being a glass half-full kind of guy, though. ;)

I'll probably work up a more realistic Bucs mock later.
I'll probably hold off on doing a mock until after the combine. That is when we'll really start to get a feel for where players will wind up being drafted.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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1. Gerald McCoy, DT Oklahoma
- Any other year, and we could very well be talking about him going #1 right now. Fills one of our biggest needs and IMO is the BPA.

2a. Golden Tate, WR Notre Dame
- Doesn't have the most impressive measurables, but always comes up big in games. I think he slips here because others with more 'potential' will be selected first. Considered Lafell, but kind of turned off that he'll be a 24 year old rookie.

2b. Donovan Warren, CB Michigan
- It seems like after Haden, the CB class is wide open. A lot of different guys that could potentially go anywhere from late 1st to the 3rd. Warren is near the top of the list of DBs I'm hoping we can nab in the 2nd. Other possibilities around this range; Amari Spievey, Patrick Robinson, Perrish Cox, Devin McCourty, Kareem Jackson, Jerome Murphy, Brandon Ghee, Javier Arenas, Kyle Wilson, Dominique Franks, and Syd'Quan Thompson.

3. Jermaine Cunningham, DE Florida
- I'm not a UF fan (actually pretty much the opposite), but I think Cunningham is a little underrated right now. I believe he'll break the recent bad streak of UF DE's. Good pass rusher and ability to be a full-time starter in our D.

4. Larry Asante, SS Nebraska
- Safety that is known for his tackling. Sounds good to me. Former linebacker. Certainly an upgrade over Will Allen and can hopefully push Sabby for the starting job.

5. Josh Moore, CB Kansas State
- Literally no one is talking about him right now, but that might change soon. A surprise underclassmen declaree, Moore has nice CB size and good speed. Oh, did I mention that as a freshman he started the final five games of the season, playing under a young DC by the name of Raheem?

6. Rico McCoy, LB Tennessee
- Classic undersized LB, but is just a straight up football player on the field. His size will be an uphill battle to be able to stick. We could use the depth at OLB though and there's always a chance he's the next Geno.

7a. Darius Marshall, RB Marshall
- Maturity and drug issues hurt his stock. Isn't the most physically imposing back and he isn't going to be one of the fastest timed, but has a good burst and vision. Isn't even 21 yet. Hopefully works out for us like Bradshaw did for NY.

7b. Arthur Moats, DE James Madison
- Sleeper DE prospect. Most project him to make the switch to a 34 OLB, but I like him as a situational pass rusher for us. He'll be playing in the upcoming Texas vs. Nation game so keep an eye out for him.

7c. Brandon Banks, WR Kansas State

Broke onto the scene last year as JUCO transfer. Had a great connection with Josh Freeman in their one year together as Banks put up ridiculous production despite his size. One of the fastest players in the draft. Despite all this, too many issues might leave him undrafted; character issues, his senior production drop-off, and the fact that he's undersized for even high school standards. Last year some of you may remember I was high on Sammie Stroughter in the months leading up to the draft, and was excited when we actually took him. Banks has very much of the same problems stacked up against him as Stroughter did, but we took a chance last year and it seemed to pay off.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Unreal Mock....DJC....i am happy with every one of those picks(although I don't know much about the 7th rounders)
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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1a - Derrick Morgan (DE, Georgia Tech)
1b - Brian Price (DT, UCLA)
2 - Damian Williams (WR, Southern California)
3 - Tyson Aualu (DT, California)
4 - Kyle Calloway (OT, Iowa)
5 - Syd'Quan Thompson (CB, California)
6 - Robert Johnson (S, Utah)
7 - Zoltan Mesko (P, Michigan)
7 - A.J. Wallace (CB, Penn State)
7 - Andrew Quarless (TE, Penn State)
I like this, for the most part, although I agree with Caddy that it seems unlikely.

I like the Morgan pick. I think he can be an all-around Pro Bowl DE for many years.

Again, like the Price pick, but not sure if he makes it this far. I think he'll blow up with workouts and the combine, and more tape evaluation. Combine that with his scheme versatility as a possible 34 DE, and I'd give it about a 25% shot he makes it out of the top 15. Then again it's early in the process.

I'm on the fence about Damian right now. He's more quick than fast. I think he'll start to slip some after the combine if he doesn't run well as teams will start bringing up Jarrett comparisons more.

The next 3 picks I like, but again just IMO I don't see them lasting this long. Calloway probably is realistic, but I don't see Alaualu making it out of the 2nd (for some of the same reasons as Price) and Thompson making it past the 3rd at the latest. I know Scott isn't a big fan, but I've seen others that have him as a borderline 1st despite his size. He has some of the most flexible stock this year and it'll be interesting to see where he actually lands.

I like Robert Johnson at S if he's there in the 6th. He'd bring good competition to Sabby and at worst should stick as a back-up since we don't really have anyone else.

Mesko pick is good if he's worth drafting. I'm pretty tired of the pick a punter game too. The two Penn State players are good low risk/high reward players with some potential this late in the draft. I liked what I saw of Quarless when I noticed him in the Shrine game, and have been a fan of finding a replacement for Stevens.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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The two Penn State players are good low risk/high reward players with some potential this late in the draft. I liked what I saw of Quarless when I noticed him in the Shrine game, and have been a fan of finding a replacement for Stevens.
Actually, I'd consider both Quarless and Wallace to be high risk players and I'm a Penn State fan.

Quarless is a fantastic athlete, but he lacks the work ethic to take his game to the next level. People at Penn State will tell you he's the laziest guy guy at practices. He's a prime candidate for a "We talkin' 'bout practice?!" Allen Iverson rant in a press conference at least one point in his NFL career. Who knows, though... Maybe the prospect of actually making money as a player will give him the kick in the pants he needs.

As for Wallace, he's raw. He makes a lot of mistakes in coverage and sometimes really doesn't seem to understand what his job in particular situations is. He also managed to get himself suspended this past season for skipping classes, which might not be so bad until you consider the fact that one of Joe Paterno's Commandments is "Thou shalt attend class." It's basically a given that if you skip classes, Paterno will suspend you.

Still, both players have enough upside to make them worth taking. Both a good athletes with the physical tools you look for. We just need someone who can give Quarless a kick in the rear and get Wallace the knowledge he needs to contribute meaningfully.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
Actually, I'd consider both Quarless and Wallace to be high risk players and I'm a Penn State fan.

Quarless is a fantastic athlete, but he lacks the work ethic to take his game to the next level. People at Penn State will tell you he's the laziest guy guy at practices. He's a prime candidate for a "We talkin' 'bout practice?!" Allen Iverson rant in a press conference at least one point in his NFL career. Who knows, though... Maybe the prospect of actually making money as a player will give him the kick in the pants he needs.

As for Wallace, he's raw. He makes a lot of mistakes in coverage and sometimes really doesn't seem to understand what his job in particular situations is. He also managed to get himself suspended this past season for skipping classes, which might not be so bad until you consider the fact that one of Joe Paterno's Commandments is "Thou shalt attend class." It's basically a given that if you skip classes, Paterno will suspend you.

Still, both players have enough upside to make them worth taking. Both a good athletes with the physical tools you look for. We just need someone who can give Quarless a kick in the rear and get Wallace the knowledge he needs to contribute meaningfully.
By low risk, I meant giving up a 7th round pick is low risk. High reward I just meant they have the potential to stick around if they can put it together.

Thanks for the insight though. Didn't know too much about them.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:41 PM    (permalink
KennyG
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I can't really complain that much about any of the Mocks listed, I didn't really account for trading down - but that would probably be the best option if Suh and McCoy are gone.
I wouldn't mind keeping the majority of our picks but doing something like giving our 3rd and a player for Boldin would be fine by me.
And I am not positive but I just heard that the Jacksonville pick we got for Luke McCown will be a 6th rounder, does anyone know if this is true?

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Old 01-24-2010, 02:25 PM    (permalink
brasho
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I look at it this way too - What is the drop off of play from Dez Bryant to Mardy Gilyard? And what is the drop off of play from Brian Price to lets say Arthur Jones or Dan Williams?

I just think there is more of a drop off at WR then DT.... And if I am not mistaken I think Gilyard played in the spread too... I think after the combine Dez's stock will shoot up a lot... And as far as the agent stuff i would hope that we would start the contract talk before we drafted him so we don't have a Crabtree incident...

But don't get me wrong, I knew no one would agree with me on the Dez pick and I understand where your coming from....

I don't put Arthur Jones or Dan WIlliams anywhere close to Lamarr Houston in terms of being a good UT... I would take a shot at Tyson Alualu before gambling on Jones or Williams... anyways, I see that as a pretty big jump. Dan Williams is strictly a NT type without a great motor. I'm pretty sure the Bucs will get a fair eval on both Williams and Berry from those two's former coach, Monte.

Gilyard might not be in Dez Bryant's physical class, but he is a hard worker with a ton of character... two things I'm not so sure about with Bryant, who also played in a spread-type offense in college.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Gilyard might not be in Dez Bryant's physical class, but he is a hard worker with a ton of character...
Yea I am not hating on Gilyard, I see him on the same level as say Santonio Holmes, some where on that kind of level, pretty much a good #2 with maybe the potential to be a #1, which is fine... I just think Dez is going to be a top 10 WR eventually at the next level...

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Old 01-28-2010, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think of this senario....

We trade the 3rd overall pick and a 4th rounder to denver they give us Marshall and the 11th pick...
Then instead of trying to get Dez our Draft can look something like:
1. McClain LB
2. Chad Jones SS
2. Lamar Houston DT
3. Austen Lane DE
5. Ben Tate RB
6. Best Available CB
Best available the rest of the way...
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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I don't know, I like Marshall's game but one more problem and he's sitting for 4 to 6 games plus you put him, Talib and T Jack together it just smells of trouble.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KennyG View Post
What do you guys think of this senario....

We trade the 3rd overall pick and a 4th rounder to denver they give us Marshall and the 11th pick...
Then instead of trying to get Dez our Draft can look something like:
1. McClain LB
2. Chad Jones SS
2. Lamar Houston DT
3. Austen Lane DE
5. Ben Tate RB
6. Best Available CB
Best available the rest of the way...
After thinking about it more... I like the whole Marshall and the 11th pick for the 3rd. I'm on the we need to get talent on this team thing by any means necessary. But my draft would look like this:

1. Brain Price
2. Brandon Graham (also would be willing to trade for Glenn Dorsey)
2. Kareem Jackson
3. Jordan Shipley

You guys will say why Dorsey when we have Roy Miller? Roy's a nice player in all, but is not Dorsey or Price and with those two we could have one of if not the most disruptive defensive tackle tandems in the league. Going back to the days of Sapp and Booger Mcfarland and having Miller be our 3rd Dt which in todays NFL is very important.

With the draft that I just did we would have shored up our needs at WR with Marshall and Shipley, our D line with Price and Graham ( or Dorsey ) and our new CB that can tackle. Which is big in the Tampa 2 System.

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Old 01-29-2010, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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The Bucs have many options they can do on draft day: I will post a Mock of what we would do in each scenarioL


If detroit doesn't draft McCoy:

1.- McCoy
2 a.- Arrellious Benn
2 b.- Kareem Jackson
3. Corey Wooten
4. Darrell Stuckey
5. Mike Williams


If Detroit drafts McCoy, then their are a bunch of options:
1st, keep the pick:

1. Dez Bryant
2a.- Jared Oderick
2b.- Carlos Dunlap
3- Devin McCourtney
4- Darrell Stuckey
5- Jason Fox

Make a deal that the rumored 49ers want to trade up for berry:
1(13 overall)- Brian Price
1( 17 overall)- Everson Griffen
2a) Arrellious Benn
2b- Rashad Jones
3- Kyle Calloway RT
4- Dominique Franks
5- Mike Williams

Or make that Possible deal with the Broncos trading 3rd overall and 3rd round pick for Brandon Marshall and the 11th overall pick:

1(11th)- Brian Price
2a- Carlos Dunlap
2b- Kareem Jackson
4th- Darrell Stuckey
5th- Jason Fox

Or Buffalo might want to move up for Clausen or Bradford.... trade the 9th overall and 2nd round pick:
1(9th)- Dez Bryant
2a- Jared Oderick
2b- Carlos Dunlap
2c- Rashad Jones
3- Mardy Gillyard
4- Jason Fox
5- Walter McFadden

Or , 1 more scenario could be:
Bucs trade 3rd round pcik for Anquan Bolden and Detroit passes on McCoy and takes Okung:
1- McCoy
2a)- Carlos Dunlap
2b)-Kareem Jackson
3(Boldin)
4)- Darrell Stuckey
5) Mike Williams

We have many options, especially if both mccoy and suh are not available at 3. I think with a team like san fransisco looking to add a playmaker in the secondary and with ammo to move up, might look to get in the top 5 and snag berry, allowing the bucs to move down and fill 2 big needs at DT with Price and Griffen.

Also, teams like Washington, Seattle and Buffalo may look to jump up, * note, washington may want to jump to #2 to make sure no team strikes a deal with tampa) in order to land either clausen or bradford because i believe that Washington may take Clausen at 4 and seattle might take bradford at 6 if no trades are made. If Suh and McCoy are off the board at #3, i see tampa's phone ringing off the hook from teams wanting berry or a qb.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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i hope it ends like this...

1. Gerald McCoy
2a. Brandon Graham
2b. Goldon Tate
3. Toby Gerhardt
4. Goerge Selvie
5. Myron Rolle
6. Zoltan Mesko
7a. BPA DB
7b. BPA K
7c. BPA

Last edited by SloppyJoe : 01-29-2010 at 02:27 AM.
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