Bucs looking to trade up for Suh?

KennyG · 02-20-2010, 01:43 PM

Kicking off this season of draft rumors is Scout.com, lol... Seriously If all it takes is a third rounder and JJ to move up and get a DT why wouldn't Dominick do that? Seems like a fair deal for both sides...

http://profootball.scout.com/2/947712.html

Beans · 02-20-2010, 04:20 PM

works for me

hopefully that Glazers won't be cheapskates about paying #1 overall moneaahahahahahah yeah right of course they will

George Lippard · 02-20-2010, 04:37 PM

**** that. I don't want Suh anywhere near this team if McCoy can be had.

Beans · 02-20-2010, 04:42 PM

honestly i'd take either of them at this point

it's up to the front office as to who we'd actually take #1

George Lippard · 02-20-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beans

honestly i'd take either of them at this point

it's up to the front office as to who we'd actually take #1

It's one of those things you can't screw up but we will, somehow.

wicket · 02-20-2010, 04:48 PM

could work out for both teams, bucs get suh as they want and st louis get the guy who they should get @1 (JC or bradford depending on whom they like more) anyways @3. could get done

KennyG · 02-20-2010, 05:18 PM

At this point if all it takes to move to the #1 spot is a 3rd round pick and JJ I really don't care if it is Suh or McCoy, both are excellent DTs, I know McCoy fits the one gap better and is a little more polished but by no means will I be upset if we grab Suh...

Me Likey Rookies · 02-20-2010, 05:29 PM

I would take Suh over McCoy mostly for the superior run defense.

George Lippard · 02-20-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies

I would take Suh over McCoy mostly for the superior run defense.

I'd take QB pressure over run-stuffing, but that is just me. Run stoppers are easier to find.

Me Likey Rookies · 02-20-2010, 05:58 PM

You fail to mention that Suh can pressure the QB as well (he had double the sacks of McCoy this year). And this was while playing a 2-gap defense as opposed to the penetrating defense that McCoy was in. Watch this video I made for pure Suh-domination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Gfsg0iuuI

EDIT: why cant I embed?

George Lippard · 02-20-2010, 06:01 PM

This website can't handle Suh's suckiness.

Me Likey Rookies · 02-20-2010, 06:04 PM

That's a joke right? I mean it HAS to be a joke but you seem really down on Suh for some reason.

Bucs_Rule · 02-20-2010, 06:29 PM

Suh ain't no Casey Hampton. He can get after the QB really well too.

The D-line is terrible, getting a stud DT would be huge. Suh makes a much bigger upgrade than Berry would.

George Lippard · 02-20-2010, 06:30 PM

Berry is at least on the same level as Suh in terms of talent.

Drafting for need gets you Gaines Adams.

Caddy · 02-20-2010, 07:38 PM

Gaines Adams was an elite prospect coming out of College. Incredibly polished and worthy of going top 5.

etk · 02-21-2010, 06:20 PM

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:c...d-facepalm.jpg

C'mon guys...enough already.

1st off, there's a reason why there are rumors flying around that McCoy might go #1 to STL. He's the clear-cut better prospect. He's more athletic and has a more complete game. He has more upside and less weaknesses.

I figured MLR of all people would know that Suh is not a "superior run defender" because he makes some of the videos that I watch...the same videos that show Suh getting blown off the ball on occasion and struggling to anchor against the run. McCoy has great lower body strength and understands proper leverage. No one's mistaking him for a NT, but he's explosive off the snap and can penetrate gaps or hold his ground effectively.

I still would prefer Eric Berry over Suh, but one one condition: we play Berry at CB. We need an impact CB much more than an upgrade over Piscitelli, and Berry is quick and explosive enough to play CB. Drafting Berry would give us a young and athletic secondary. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more on here since Berry is about the same size as Talib, only faster, more explosive and more physical.

I agree with Caddy that Gaines Adams wasn't a "need" pick...simply put, it was the right pick and frankly the only option. Our other options were Okoye (riskier, not as big a need), Anderson (inferior talent), or Peterson (great talent, but hard to justify with the $ invested in Cadillac and needs elsehwere).

Gaines was far from polished though. He had solid production but everyone knew he was an athlete first and a football player second. Unfortunately he never learned how to pass rush effectively.

V.I.P · 02-21-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beans

works for me

hopefully that Glazers won't be cheapskates about paying #1 overall moneaahahahahahah yeah right of course they will

If this trade really does happen what are you gonna do with your JJ sig? lol

bucfan12 · 02-21-2010, 11:05 PM

After reading this post, I honestly dont think Suh is the target. McCoy fits our defense much better and is very good in run support and is an even better pass rusher than Suh. I have been watching a lot of film lately on the both of them and yes, it is very hard to put one ahead of the other.

Suh is better in run support, but is also a good pass rusher.
However, Suh has had injury history and will be 24 during his rookie season.

McCoy is better pass rusher from the UT position and is also very good in run support. Better fit in our Tampa 2 system and he is VERY AGGRESSIVE! (Rah likes his defense to be more aggressive than Monte's tampa 2). Not only that, Rah has used the hybrid where he lines up in a 3-4 on certain situations to mike it up. McCoy can provide pressure from the 3-4 end, as he did at Oklahoma when they were flirting with the 3-4. Not saying this is the main reason, but it is an option, but he is better suited for our tampa 2 scheme.

Also, I want to point out that McCoy is 21 years old with no history of major injuries. He was also rate as the top DT prospect if he were to declare in 2009.

Both are fairly equal and when mike mayock says these two are the best DT prospects to come out in a while, he isn't lying. They are 10 times the prospects of Sedrick Ellis, BJ Raji and Glenn Dorsey when they were coming out and both are better, IMO, than Kevin Williams, and thats speaking high volumes, as he is the best UT in the NFL.

Bottom line is, you can't go wrong with either Suh or McCoy, but if I was the GM and we somehow do land the number 1 pick, I am taking McCoy.

bucfan12 · 02-21-2010, 11:14 PM

Also want to add that Mark Dominik personally attended Oklahomas Bowl Game to scout McCoy and him saying Ndamkung Suh is at the top of their draft board. ? Hm, seems like it could be a smoke screen.

Remember, last year, when they went ahead and resigned Luke McCown and signed Byron Leftwich and then worked out players like Michael Johnson and Peria Jerry and some WR's? They signed Leftwich after they had their workout with Josh Freeman. They did that as a clear smoke screen, so I see this as a similar situation.

Also, I think that the Bucs should just wait it out before trading. Read on espn.com insider that Detroit might be looking to deal a 2nd round pick for Glenn Dorsey because it seems like they might want to protect their 80 million dollar investment Matt Stafford and go with Okung. Also, if the Rams and Bucs are talking about a trade, it shows that the Rams aren't sold on taking a DT at number 1 and March 25th is the key date, as Sam Bradford will show whether or not that he is 100%.

Merlin · 02-22-2010, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etk

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:c...d-facepalm.jpg

C'mon guys...enough already.

1st off, there's a reason why there are rumors flying around that McCoy might go #1 to STL. He's the clear-cut better prospect. He's more athletic and has a more complete game. He has more upside and less weaknesses.

I figured MLR of all people would know that Suh is not a "superior run defender" because he makes some of the videos that I watch...the same videos that show Suh getting blown off the ball on occasion and struggling to anchor against the run. McCoy has great lower body strength and understands proper leverage. No one's mistaking him for a NT, but he's explosive off the snap and can penetrate gaps or hold his ground effectively.

I still would prefer Eric Berry over Suh, but one one condition: we play Berry at CB. We need an impact CB much more than an upgrade over Piscitelli, and Berry is quick and explosive enough to play CB. Drafting Berry would give us a young and athletic secondary. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more on here since Berry is about the same size as Talib, only faster, more explosive and more physical.

I'm absolutly stunned....!?! "He's the clear-cut better prospect. He's more athletic and has a more complete game. He has more upside and less weaknesses", are you sure you haven't got the names wrong, or maybe you've been looking at the wrong "tapes"!?!

So Suh get's blown up on occasions, is that due to the, "occasional" double team!?!

Suh is by far the superior run defender and allround DT, they may have different physical attributes which account for their different playing styles, but Suh will go before McCoy regardless of scheme.

Both players are being overhyped, thats the NFL circus for you, but don't mistake who the better player/prospect is, it's not even a contest, I like McCoy, and if Suh is off the board, I'd be more than happy to have him as a Buc.

As for Berry, he'll make a superb FS in the NFL, we already have a great one, so we don't need him!
He was pretty dour by his standards in Montes T2, he looked out of place in the box IMO, he took poor angles in run support, and seemed to lack upper body strentgh.
Why on earth we would want to convert him to CB is beyond me, though I think he played QB and CB in high school, maybe thats why we're happy to entertain the idea about letting JJ go to the Rams!?! (raised eye's)

"We need an impact CB much more than an upgrade over Piscitelli" that (with respect) is the only thing I agree with you on, which is why we'll take Haden if Mc/Suh are both gone, we may trade down to do it, (if possible) otherwise we'll take him at #3.

George Lippard · 02-22-2010, 09:34 AM

McCoy is undoubtedly better than Suh. etk is spot on. NFL scouts are beginning to say as much.

Caddy · 02-22-2010, 09:42 AM

I've never been on the Suh bandwagon, but I still like him as a prospect. I don't look at one being better than the other per say. I just think you take the one that best fits your scheme.

Brothgar · 02-22-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies

You fail to mention that Suh can pressure the QB as well (he had double the sacks of McCoy this year). And this was while playing a 2-gap defense as opposed to the penetrating defense that McCoy was in. Watch this video I made for pure Suh-domination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Gfsg0iuuI

EDIT: why cant I embed?

see the bolded part in your post? put that between [*youtube][/youtube] without the * then you too will be able to embed.

Beans · 02-22-2010, 12:17 PM

i've been saying berry as a CB for a while

also i don't care anymore. i want mccoy or suh or berry just get one of them and i'll be happy make it happen tampa

Caddy · 02-22-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beans

i've been saying berry as a CB for a while

also i don't care anymore. i want mccoy or suh or berry just get one of them and i'll be happy make it happen tampa

This is pretty much how I feel at the moment. I just want to see Berry measure in at the combine first though.