Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum

Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum Discuss the Bucs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2010, 01:10 AM    (permalink
Merlin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chichester West Sussex England UK
Posts: 726
Reputation: 127
Merlin hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Lippard View Post
McCoy is undoubtedly better than Suh. etk is spot on. NFL scouts are beginning to say as much.
Take it with a pinch of salt, but Mike Mayock now has Earl Thomas over Eric Berry.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09...s&confirm=true
__________________
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 02:17 AM    (permalink
ABoyNamedSuh
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 127
Reputation: 2153
ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.
Default

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-hq-vid.../Haden-s-House
__________________
[IMG]http://www.*****************.com/forums/uploads/IMG1522-1260668629.png[/IMG]
ABoyNamedSuh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 08:04 AM    (permalink
Merlin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chichester West Sussex England UK
Posts: 726
Reputation: 127
Merlin hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABoyNamedSuh View Post
Not sure thats the breakfast of champions..lols
__________________
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 04:18 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
"I've seen him get driven back on numerous occasions. This is a true statement. I saw it a lot on Jr. film, and a little bit on Sr. film."

So (almost) your whole arguement is based on junior film. You can almost throw that film out because of his improvement from junior to senior year.

"Suh does make many more plays against the run, but I don't see him drive back the G/C and force the RB to cutback or take a loss very often."

I see him stoning the G/C and making the RB take a loss or get no yardage many, many, many times in those videos. Waaaaaaaaaay more than you see McCoy do it. I think we need to agree to disgree, but let me just say that I think you are having a hard time changing your mind becaue before the season you engraved in your mind that McCoy is greatest thing ever. I did too, but the 2009 season changed that for me.

I love Dez Bryant but not at 3 (and not over Berry and not with the 2nd round options of DWilliams, Benn, Tate, DThomas, Gilyard).
You can't disregard play from barely over a year ago. He has improved to the point where it probably won't prevent him from being a starter, but it's still a weakness in the NFL.

I have changed my mind. I moved him up from a pre-season late 1st rounder (when people projected him as a top 10 pick) to a top 15 pick (people project him top 3).

Williams doesn't offer much for a 2nd rounder. Benn is extremely overrated. Tate, Thomas and Gilyard are legit (so is LaFell). All I'm saying is that Bryant should be in consideration since he's a top 5 talent - this coming from someone who isn't as high on him as most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Lippard View Post
I just hope Suh busts, horribly. The **** over at TBBBB deserve as much.

etk > Scott Wright. And it isn't close...sort of like McCoy and Suh.
I'd like to see Suh bust because the reaction would be "How did this happen?" which would prove how few people can really evaluate film critically.

I have a lot of respect for Scott because he runs a good (and free) site and puts in a lot of hard work. He writes great scouting reports as well, although I disagree with a lot of his evaluations and where he ranks prospects. i.e. he thinks AJ Green is the top prospect for next year when Julio Jones is a rare physical talent.

There just aren't enough people who "get it" when it comes to evaluating talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
When did I say that!?!

Are you eluding to the fact I mentioned his athletic ability, and that he could be "coached up", if thats the case, it would have to be a pretty piss poor GM to draft a "project" at #3!?! Oh well.
You said "I'm not doubting his athletic ability", which to me means that you think he has all the natural tools to be a great CB. What top 5 picks aren't considered "projects"? All rookies face a difficult adjustment in the NFL. Every QB drafted is a project. When I think of prospects that weren't projects, I think of Tony Mandarich, Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry, etc. Guys that were "sure-things" that didn't live up to the hype.

Berry has elite athletic ability and is a natural playmaker. What's not to like?
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 12:15 AM    (permalink
Merlin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chichester West Sussex England UK
Posts: 726
Reputation: 127
Merlin hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

ETK: "There just aren't enough people who "get it" when it comes to evaluating talent"

Ain't that the truth, but that's what makes it fun for us casual fans etc.

ETK: "You said "I'm not doubting his athletic ability", which to me means that you think he has all the natural tools to be a great CB. What top 5 picks aren't considered "projects"? All rookies face a difficult adjustment in the NFL. Every QB drafted is a project. When I think of prospects that weren't projects, I think of Tony Mandarich, Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry, etc. Guys that were "sure-things" that didn't live up to the hype.

Berry has elite athletic ability and is a natural playmaker. What's not to like?"

Sorry, when I said "project" I made the assumption you wouldn't equate to the obvious!?!

I'm sure Jerry Rice had, "all the natural tools" to be a great CB, but guess what...

If Berry had the pure speed and ability to be a shut-down corner, he'd already be playing corner. Yes, there's an upside to having a guy who can be moved all around the field. But if you have a guy who can rub out a top receiving threat on the opposition, that's what you use him for. Nobody wanted to use Rod Woodson or Aeneas Williams at safety until they couldn't stay with receivers one on one anymore. I'm sure Nnamdi Asomugha could play safety, and be moved all around the field, and create matchup problems. But that would be silly, because if you've got an elite cover corner, he's going to play corner.

IMHO, the fact he didn't play corner in college raises some questions about whether he can/should be used that way in the pros.
__________________
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 01:22 AM    (permalink
Caddy
Team Leader
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aussie-Land
Posts: 20,927
Reputation: 2287858
Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
ETK: "There just aren't enough people who "get it" when it comes to evaluating talent"

Ain't that the truth, but that's what makes it fun for us casual fans etc.

ETK: "You said "I'm not doubting his athletic ability", which to me means that you think he has all the natural tools to be a great CB. What top 5 picks aren't considered "projects"? All rookies face a difficult adjustment in the NFL. Every QB drafted is a project. When I think of prospects that weren't projects, I think of Tony Mandarich, Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry, etc. Guys that were "sure-things" that didn't live up to the hype.

Berry has elite athletic ability and is a natural playmaker. What's not to like?"

Sorry, when I said "project" I made the assumption you wouldn't equate to the obvious!?!

I'm sure Jerry Rice had, "all the natural tools" to be a great CB, but guess what...

If Berry had the pure speed and ability to be a shut-down corner, he'd already be playing corner. Yes, there's an upside to having a guy who can be moved all around the field. But if you have a guy who can rub out a top receiving threat on the opposition, that's what you use him for. Nobody wanted to use Rod Woodson or Aeneas Williams at safety until they couldn't stay with receivers one on one anymore. I'm sure Nnamdi Asomugha could play safety, and be moved all around the field, and create matchup problems. But that would be silly, because if you've got an elite cover corner, he's going to play corner.

IMHO, the fact he didn't play corner in college raises some questions about whether he can/should be used that way in the pros.
Guess who played free safety in college?

Nnamdi Asomugha.
__________________

Caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 09:54 AM    (permalink
Merlin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chichester West Sussex England UK
Posts: 726
Reputation: 127
Merlin hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
Guess who played free safety in college?

Nnamdi Asomugha.
Yeah, and he was drafted 31st overall, and played in only 8 games in his first two years!?!

Now if your prepared to use our #3 overall pic, make him switch his position in the hope he'll work out as a CB eventually, (because Asomugha did) great.

If we do draft him, I hope to God it's as a S, I'm not sure what it would mean for T-Jack, but hey!?!
__________________
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 10:27 AM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
Sorry, when I said "project" I made the assumption you wouldn't equate to the obvious!?!

I'm sure Jerry Rice had, "all the natural tools" to be a great CB, but guess what...

If Berry had the pure speed and ability to be a shut-down corner, he'd already be playing corner. Yes, there's an upside to having a guy who can be moved all around the field. But if you have a guy who can rub out a top receiving threat on the opposition, that's what you use him for. Nobody wanted to use Rod Woodson or Aeneas Williams at safety until they couldn't stay with receivers one on one anymore. I'm sure Nnamdi Asomugha could play safety, and be moved all around the field, and create matchup problems. But that would be silly, because if you've got an elite cover corner, he's going to play corner.

IMHO, the fact he didn't play corner in college raises some questions about whether he can/should be used that way in the pros.
You're WAY overanalyzing things. Berry played safety in college because he's a great run defender and it allowed him to roam and make more plays. Watch his highlights and count how many times he knifes up the field to cut off the RB and make a key tackle.

The value of a shutdown corner in the NFL isn't the same as in the SEC. There aren't many dominant passing attacks in the SEC and there's a greater focus on running the ball. Berry was much more valuable as a safety because he could use his range to make plays on the ball and support the run.

Shutdown corners have to have a rare, elite set of athletic skills. You have to have size, speed, agility and fluidity. Berry brings all of those things to the table. The only way he doesn't become a Pro Bowl CB is if he has a learning disability or lack of motivation.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 11:32 AM    (permalink
Caddy
Team Leader
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aussie-Land
Posts: 20,927
Reputation: 2287858
Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
Yeah, and he was drafted 31st overall, and played in only 8 games in his first two years!?!

Now if your prepared to use our #3 overall pic, make him switch his position in the hope he'll work out as a CB eventually, (because Asomugha did) great.

If we do draft him, I hope to God it's as a S, I'm not sure what it would mean for T-Jack, but hey!?!
If I thought he'd turn into Nnamdi after two seasons hell yes I'd draft him.
__________________

Caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 11:37 AM    (permalink
Chucky
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,816
Reputation: 206172
Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Chucky is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Just a little sidenote....with all the Nnamdi trade talk.

Would you trade the third pick for Nnamdi (if and if not McCoy/Suh are taken)?
Chucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 12:06 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

No way. Berry is a better athlete than Nnamdi with more upside. Aso will be 29 before the season, but Berry is young with a high ceiling and floor.

It's not like we're in a position to load up on veterans to make a Super Bowl run, we need future contributors.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 01:56 PM    (permalink
Merlin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chichester West Sussex England UK
Posts: 726
Reputation: 127
Merlin hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Thumbs up

Well, fingers crossed, now that Bradford has weighed in at the combine, we can forget about Berry altogether (thank you God)

With that extra weight/muscle, Bradford has just become the #1 prospect in the draft.

ETK: "You're WAY overanalyzing things"

Am I!?!......appologies.
__________________

Last edited by Merlin : 02-26-2010 at 01:59 PM.
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 02:27 PM    (permalink
Caddy
Team Leader
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aussie-Land
Posts: 20,927
Reputation: 2287858
Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caddy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I agree in that regard.

I hope Bradford impresses St Louis in the interviews because if he does we should be able to grab ourselves one of the premier defensive tackles.
__________________

Caddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2010, 10:37 PM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

etk: "You can't disregard play from barely over a year ago. He has improved to the point where it probably won't prevent him from being a starter, but it's still a weakness in the NFL."

Sure you can when he COMPLETELY fixed it in an entire offseason. The guy put 12 games of amazing/consistent play on film this year. Even your boy Mayock (who also has McCoy over Suh) recently said that Suh is the superior run defender. I like the "probably won't prevent him from being a starter" line, because you actually think he might not be a starter? Huh?

etk: "I have changed my mind. I moved him up from a pre-season late 1st rounder (when people projected him as a top 10 pick) to a top 15 pick (people project him top 3)."

So you could list 14 prospects you would take ahead of him?

Anyways, I am done arguing Suh vs Mccoy. You just keep going back to certain moments during his Junior film as examples why he sucks vs the run.

The trade is 100% not going to happen anyway. Lets hope the Rams take Bradford, and we start the draft out strong with a DT. I hope we can pick up a solid CB or SS in FA so that our next 3 picks are DE (Hughes?), WR (Benn? DThomas? Tate? DWilliams), and CB/SS.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 07:10 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
Well, fingers crossed, now that Bradford has weighed in at the combine, we can forget about Berry altogether (thank you God)

With that extra weight/muscle, Bradford has just become the #1 prospect in the draft.

ETK: "You're WAY overanalyzing things"

Am I!?!......appologies.
My friend is a Rams fan (and a Longhorns fan). He's gonna be on suicide watch if the Rams draft Bradford. I'll be happy enough to console him if it happens.

It's not an insult that you're overanalyzing the Berry situation. You evaluate him fine as a player and you know what he's capable of, but I think you're being too conservative in projecting him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
etk: "You can't disregard play from barely over a year ago. He has improved to the point where it probably won't prevent him from being a starter, but it's still a weakness in the NFL."

Sure you can when he COMPLETELY fixed it in an entire offseason. The guy put 12 games of amazing/consistent play on film this year. Even your boy Mayock (who also has McCoy over Suh) recently said that Suh is the superior run defender. I like the "probably won't prevent him from being a starter" line, because you actually think he might not be a starter? Huh?

etk: "I have changed my mind. I moved him up from a pre-season late 1st rounder (when people projected him as a top 10 pick) to a top 15 pick (people project him top 3)."

So you could list 14 prospects you would take ahead of him?

Anyways, I am done arguing Suh vs Mccoy. You just keep going back to certain moments during his Junior film as examples why he sucks vs the run.

The trade is 100% not going to happen anyway. Lets hope the Rams take Bradford, and we start the draft out strong with a DT. I hope we can pick up a solid CB or SS in FA so that our next 3 picks are DE (Hughes?), WR (Benn? DThomas? Tate? DWilliams), and CB/SS.
Suh did not learn to anchor effectively over one season. He improved at it but it's still an athletic flaw that cannot be fixed completely.

I rank the following prospects ahead of Suh:

McCoy, Berry, Clausen, Bryant, Bulaga, Okung, Morgan, Spiller, Kindle, McClain. That's 10 players, hence why Suh is a top 15 pick.

I never said Suh sucks against the run, but I have serious doubts about his ability to anchor effectively against the run at the next level. His lower body power and explosiveness is average at best.

One day you'll learn to be more critical when evaluating prospects. I'm not the only person who's voiced these concerns against Suh, but you refuse to acknowledge my view. I'm not asking you to admit that McCoy is better than Suh, but I wish you weren't blind to Suh's weaknesses.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher

Last edited by etk : 02-27-2010 at 07:12 PM.
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 07:52 PM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ok. I do not feel like going in circles so lets just leave it alone. I feel like I've done all I can, including showing you 30 minutes of film that completely disagreed with your view.

aahh I cant stop typing... you say I am blind to his weaknesses... you have him below guys like Bulaga, Spiller, and Kindle. Looks like someone is blind to his strengths.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2010, 11:11 PM    (permalink
TornadoRex
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 56
Reputation: -202
TornadoRex smells like sex panther.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Lippard View Post
I just hope Suh busts, horribly. The **** over at TBBBB deserve as much.

etk > Scott Wright. And it isn't close...sort of like McCoy and Suh.
Don't knock it just because you couldn't stand the heat.
__________________
TornadoRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 01:13 AM    (permalink
Merlin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chichester West Sussex England UK
Posts: 726
Reputation: 127
Merlin hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by etk View Post
My friend is a Rams fan (and a Longhorns fan). He's gonna be on suicide watch if the Rams draft Bradford. I'll be happy enough to console him if it happens.

It's not an insult that you're overanalyzing the Berry situation. You evaluate him fine as a player and you know what he's capable of, but I think you're being too conservative in projecting him.



Suh did not learn to anchor effectively over one season. He improved at it but it's still an athletic flaw that cannot be fixed completely.

I rank the following prospects ahead of Suh:

McCoy, Berry, Clausen, Bryant, Bulaga, Okung, Morgan, Spiller, Kindle, McClain. That's 10 players, hence why Suh is a top 15 pick.

I never said Suh sucks against the run, but I have serious doubts about his ability to anchor effectively against the run at the next level. His lower body power and explosiveness is average at best.

One day you'll learn to be more critical when evaluating prospects. I'm not the only person who's voiced these concerns against Suh, but you refuse to acknowledge my view. I'm not asking you to admit that McCoy is better than Suh, but I wish you weren't blind to Suh's weaknesses.
If your friend is on suicide watch, good luck trying to console him!?! (wouldn't he be dead!?!) ;o)

You say, "overanalyzing" I say, maybe, maybe not, my opinions are my own, I'm not trying to force them on anybody, rather just, making my own evaluations to, "one side of the coin" so to speak, I'm certanly not insulted, nor do I seek an education in, "evaluating prospects"..lols, if I did, I wouldn't be here with the rest of us.

In regards to Berry, if I thought we needed a FS, I'd be all over him like a rash, but again, "IMO", we don't.

In regards to your opinion on Suh, I could "wish you weren't blind to Suh's strengths". With respect, your the only guy I know who has 10 players ranked in front of him!?! I find that absolutly remarkable!?!

But hey, everyone to their own.
__________________
Merlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 03:46 AM    (permalink
ABoyNamedSuh
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 127
Reputation: 2153
ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.ABoyNamedSuh could make a wolverine purr.
Default

Quote:
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- There’s a new guy helping the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as they scout the prospects for this year’s NFL draft.

It’s quarterback Josh Freeman -- the same guy their drafted with their top pick. Yes, he’s part franchise quarterback and part scout and he’ll even tip his hand and tell you some of the guys he thinks the Bucs should take.

"I’ve been in watching film of different receivers with the offensive coordinator and the quarterback coach,’’ Freeman said Friday. “You might not have the Michael Crabtree or the Darius Heyward-Bey, but it’s a pretty talented receiver group coming out this year. There’s Dez Bryant and I’m a big fan out Jordan Shipley out of Texas.’’

Along with “The Fabulous Sports Babe’’ of ESPN Radio Tampa, I got to spend about 20 minutes chatting with Freeman on Friday afternoon as he attended “ESPN The Weekend’’ and the re-branding of ESPN’s Wide World of Sports. It was just a momentary break for Freeman, who soon will be back in Tampa, working out and scouting.

Yes, the Bucs really are asking Freeman for his opinions. That may sound a little bit out of the ordinary, but it’s actually a very smart move. Freeman, after all, is the franchise quarterback and the most positive thing the Bucs have going for them at this moment. It only makes sense to hear his thoughts.

You might be a little surprised to hear that Freeman’s first choice isn’t to get a wide receiver. Freeman said, if the draft were today and he was in the shoes of general manager Mark Dominik, he would take Nebraska defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh.

“I would love to see Suh here,’’ Freeman said.

The Bucs would be wise to listen to Freeman’s thoughts on Suh because their quarterback knows the defensive tackle very well. They first became friends as teammates in a high-school all-star game, saw each other frequently as college foes and were hanging out together at the Super Bowl in Miami a few weeks ago.

“He basically lived in my backfield every time I played against Nebraska,’’ said Freeman, who played at Kansas State. “The drive that that guy has is unbelievable. He’s going to be a great teammate for whoever he goes to. The guy makes plays. He gets in the backfield and nobody can block him. They’re trying to figure out what’s going to help our team the most. If it’s a receiver, it’s a receiver. If it’s get Suh, it’s getting Suh. Anyway you look at it, I’m excited.’’


Freeman should be excited. After a 3-13 season in which Freeman took over as the starter near the halfway point, the Bucs have 10 picks in this year’s draft, including five in the top 99. If they can get Suh with the third overall pick, wide receiver could be a target area for one of their two second-round picks.

The Bucs already have made it clear they’ll let last year’s No. 1 wide receiver, Antonio Bryant, leave as a free agent.

“Antonio’s a great player,’’ Freeman said. “He makes a lot of plays. Obviously, the franchise -- the owners, GM and the coaches -- didn’t feel like he’d be able to help us next year. The time I got to spend with Antonio Bryant, I treasured it and he made a lot of great plays for me. I wish him luck with the rest of his career even though he’s not going to be in Tampa next season.’’

Freeman praised Bryant, but that formula didn’t always work in reverse. At one point last season, Bryant said his lack of production was due to playing with a rookie quarterback. That may be part of the reason why Bryant is on his way out of Tampa Bay.

You don’t criticize the franchise and Freeman is the franchise here. Freeman also praised Michael Clayton, Maurice Stovall and Sammie Stroughter, but he made no secret of the fact the Bucs are looking for a No. 1 receiver in the draft or free agency.

“Looking at our roster right now, we’ve got a lot of guys that can make plays,’’ Freeman said. “But we really don’t have that burner, the guy you can just send him on a Go (route), throw it up 70 yards and let him run under it.’’

The Bucs have that guy who can throw it up 70 yards in Freeman and they’re going to try to get him every toy possible because he is the franchise. At very least, Freeman’s going to have some say in who that guy is and, listening to him talk Friday, he’s more of a student of the game than I ever realized. Freeman talked extensively about college players at all positions and sounded a little like a draftnik.

That’s a good thing and talk about the draft wasn’t the only positive thing coming from Freeman. Although team offseason workouts don’t start for nearly another month, Tampa Bay fans will be happy to know that Freeman already has been working (not just scouting) for the last few weeks.

“You take a little break and after about two weeks, I was kind of like, “Man, I’m kind of tired of this. I’m ready to get back into the football mood,'’’ Freeman said. “I’ve started working out with our new quarterbacks coach Alex Van Pelt and our offensive coordinator (Greg Olson). I’ve been working. I can’t wait for the second season.’’

Freeman has seemed pretty poised ever since the Bucs drafted him. But I thought he seemed even more mature Friday. That may be because he already has seen so much. The Bucs fired offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski just before the season and the team struggled under first-year coach Raheem Morris for much of the season.

But there was some hope later in the season, after Freeman started playing. He had some good games and led a victory over Super Bowl champion New Orleans. Freeman said the game slowed down for him as the season went on and he’s looking forward to having an entire offseason working in Olson’s offense.

He also said he’s looking forward to Morris returning for his second season.

“It was kind of evident during the early part of the season, he was feeling his way around just like any rookie,’’ Freeman said. “They did the stuff with the coordinators and you could see later in the season we were playing better and better. You could tell he’s getting the grasp for it and he’s getting it fast. I’m excited to see him coach this year.’’

Funny, but that sounds a lot like the scouting report on the quarterback. Freeman went through a lot of the things rookie quarterbacks do. Late in the year, he did some really good things. You could tell he was grasping it and maybe he’s right about Morris grasping it.

Maybe the Bucs are just a few pieces from turning the corner. Maybe, with Freeman helping as a scout, the Bucs will figure out exactly what to put next to their franchise.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/pos...uting-for-bucs
__________________
[IMG]http://www.*****************.com/forums/uploads/IMG1522-1260668629.png[/IMG]
ABoyNamedSuh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 03:48 PM    (permalink
Captain Fear
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 118
Reputation: 59
Captain Fear hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Good article. I agree with Freeman's assessment that Suh, "makes plays". If im taking a top 5 player in the draft, I want a guy that makes game breaking plays, and not just able to anchor up on the line. I understand that's a fundamental at DT, but the intangibles Suh brings with his attitude and tenacity, along with the play-making ability is just something that can't be taught. What made Warren Sapp great wasn't just his ability to plug the gaps and anchor the line, it was the intangibles he brought and his ability to make game changing plays. Suh and Sapp are different players, but they seem to bring that same fire. That's why I feel Suh should be our top target at this point. However, I'm not going to rely entirely on Freeman's opinion since he also mentions he's good friends with Suh so will obviously give him a favorable review. But that doesn't erase the fact that Suh does make plays.

Berry has this playmaking ability as well and is certainly worth of a top 3 pick, especially since he has CB potential. His ball skills are what is crucial in a cover 2 defence. I would be pretty pleased if we picked him since I have faith in our coach's secondary evaluation.
Captain Fear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 08:08 PM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Making plays in the NC game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omhi5KjPW3s
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 12:38 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,440
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

We honestly may not have to trade up for either DT. I think one of them will be there at 3. It looks like if Sam Bradford's shoulder checks out, he is going to be the number 1 pick. That would leave the Lions to take either McCoy or Suh, leaving the Bucs with the DT who is left.

However, if the Rams decide to take Suh at 1, the Lions are then going to look to trade the pick to either Buffalo, Seattle or Cleveland, teams that will be interested in QB Sam Bradford. Detroit does not want to invest in another top 3 overall pick and pay that kind of money when they have so much money tied up in Stafford and Calvin Johnson. The only reason they wont trade out is if Bradford is selected #1 because then there would be no interest from teams to move up for the QB.

Draft plan is, I think tampa should be patient and just wait it out. Don't trade up. This draft is deep and we need all picks. If some how Suh and McCoy do go 1 and 2, which i really don't think is going to happen, then the Bucs will look to trade out of the 3rd spot to a team looking for a QB. They then can look at Brian Price, who i think will shoot up draft boards and go anywhere from 10 to jacksonville to 16 at tennesee, so a trade down with buffalo to take him at 9 is a good possibility.

If we can't find a deal we like, I say explore moving T-Jack to SS and take Eric Berry. You don't draft need when picking in the top 3, especially when there is an elite player like Berry sitting there and you know he is going to be a stud. Yes, Berry would be our last option if all this were to fall on draft day.

In the end, I do think either Suh or McCoy will be their at 3 when all is said and done. It's just hard to picture DT's going 1 and 2 in the draft, especially when a team like St. Louis has no1 to play QB and Detroit needs to protect its franchise QB, who'm might be the next David Carr if he doesn't get someone to block in front of him.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 10:26 AM    (permalink
etk
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,140
Reputation: 46580
etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.etk is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me Likey Rookies View Post
Ok. I do not feel like going in circles so lets just leave it alone. I feel like I've done all I can, including showing you 30 minutes of film that completely disagreed with your view.

aahh I cant stop typing... you say I am blind to his weaknesses... you have him below guys like Bulaga, Spiller, and Kindle. Looks like someone is blind to his strengths.
I missed this post before....

No amount of film at any point Suh's career will show that he has a powerful, explosive lower body. It's an athletic weakness that he cannot change.

Bulaga is a natural knee-bender with a great frame. He's strong at the POA and showed enough quickness and agility on tape to be a quality LT prospect. He has all of the athletic tools necessary to do so, although his pass blocking still needs work. I'm not the only person that has him as their #1 OT...

Spiller is one of the most explosive players I've ever seen. He's a gamebreaking home-run hitter that can be effective between the tackles, on outside runs and in the passing game. He's also one of the best return men I've ever seen. If that's not a top 10 talent...I don't know what is. You probably would've thought I was crazy for grading Percy Harvin as a top-5 elite talent

I'm not as high on Kindle as I am on the previous 2, but he's still an explosive edge rusher that constantly puts the pressure on and pursues down the line effectively. He also has underrated strength. He needs a lot of technique work, but he has all the physical ability to be a great 3-4 OLB.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because I respect and appreciate your work in creating accessible prospect videos for the whole world to see. I really wish you would make your own evaluations instead of copy and pasting the average or dominant beliefs when it comes to ranking prospects in this draft. The world doesn't need another mimicking SW Jr...so I recommend learning the game of football so you can actually make your own critical evaluations. If I wanted to read Scott's big board, I'd click on the damn thing.
__________________

sig by BoneKrusher
etk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 03:27 PM    (permalink
Me Likey Rookies
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 997
Reputation: 32269
Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Me Likey Rookies is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

"No amount of film at any point Suh's career will show that he has a powerful, explosive lower body. It's an athletic weakness that he cannot change."

That vert at 307 lb sure shows his weak, unexplosive lower body...

"I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because I respect and appreciate your work in creating accessible prospect videos for the whole world to see. I really wish you would make your own evaluations instead of copy and pasting the average or dominant beliefs when it comes to ranking prospects in this draft. The world doesn't need another mimicking SW Jr...so I recommend learning the game of football so you can actually make your own critical evaluations. If I wanted to read Scott's big board, I'd click on the damn thing."

What does SW have to do with anything? I'm a mimicking SW because I have Suh #1? Huh?

Here is my big board: http://www.prodraftparty.com/2010/20...rall-rankings/ . It is much different from SW.

I love how you can't prove your point, AT ALL, and have to resort to attacking me.
__________________
save Freeman
Me Likey Rookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 02:08 PM    (permalink
brasho
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,115
Reputation: 76817
brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Spiller is not a player that will be a full-time player in the NFL for a few seasons... and he may never carry the load. Teams drafting in the top 15 are usually more than one part-time RB and return specialist away from contending... so he will slip to a team perhaps in the 20's that are one wildcard RB like him away from competing... he may still go in the early teens, but he is certainly not top 5.

Kindle has all the problems that you mentioned with Suh plus some. Poor lower body strength, problems with technique and getting too high on blocks, a tendency to stand and handfight instead of disengaging and finding the ball and a lack of great production as a DE. He could be top 15 if a team running the 3-4 wants potential over production.

Bulaga is pretty good, technically sound, gets push in the running game, nice hands, decent feet, but he really lacks to the foot speedand overall athleticism to be a great OT. Is he top 15? in my book, yes, do I have him in Suh's category, no.
brasho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.