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Old 03-23-2010, 03:27 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
They passed, 28 teams voted for it with only 4 against.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5022064

And one of them was Minnesota who were the "victims" of the old rule in the last playoffs. Does anything Zygi does anymore surprise me.... no.

I would have thought that team with solid FG kickers with HC confidence in them would vote for it. And injuries to kickers in the game, if he isnt able to kick in OT your punter better have some place kicker experience....

ESPN showed the graphic that the other team that had an OT FG scored on it would get the chance to "tie or win," which made think about the fake FG with new significance here.

And can a missed FG be returned by the defense? It s/b.
Absolutely. I think that's how both McCalister and Cromartie set their return records with 108 and 109 yards, respectively.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
I missread his post apparently.

I was trying to say the old system was unfair if you are an offense oriented team, so basically, my bad.
It's not "unfair." It not anybody's fault, especially the fault of a coin, if your team doesn't have a competent defense.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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And one of them was Minnesota who were the "victims" of the old rule in the last playoffs. Does anything Zygi does anymore surprise me.... no.
Minnesota wasn't a victim of the old rule. They were a victim of 5 turnovers and "questionable" officiating. We hold onto the ball, we win the game, then the officiating and the overtime rules wouldn't be in question. I think Zygi voting against it shows that he is competent. He knows that the overtime rule was not our downfall.

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And they will also understand (as they just have now) that a flip of a coin should not decide the game.
The coin flip doesn't decide ****. The coin flip is an excuse for whinny bitches to cry about losing, when all they had to do was play good defense, or even better, win the game in regulation.


This whole situation is just dumb. There was nothing wrong with the way overtime was.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
And they will also understand (as they just have now) that a flip of a coin should not decide the game.
Dude, OMG ^ 10 power.

You are the kind of people I am referring to. You put a defense together to play, their job is to stop the opposing teams offense. That purpose does not disappear because the other team wins a coin flip.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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This is a sad day indeed.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Me don't likely change.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Dude, OMG ^ 10 power.

You are the kind of people I am referring to. You put a defense together to play, their job is to stop the opposing teams offense. That purpose does not disappear because the other team wins a coin flip.
Look I don't think the game is over because of a coin flip, you guys are completely taking what I'm saying and reading into it too much.

It is unfair that a team gets to start overtime with the ball based completely off a coin flip. Yes you can stop the other team, yes you can stop them in regulation, but to give one team the ball based off a coin toss is the unfair part in my opinion.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008...lip-in-ot.html

From the 2000 through 2007 regular seasons, there have been 124 overtime games. In every single game except one (I believe), the team that won the toss elected to receive. And those receiving teams won 60% of the time (and tied once). That's a relatively large advantage, particularly when compared to home field advantage.

The dreaded 'lose-the-coin-toss-never-touch-the-ball' scenario happened in 37 out of the 124 OT periods, or about 30% of all overtime games.


My whole problem with overtime the way it was before was that teams never had to play for a touchdown, they could get to about a 50 yard field goal with a good kicker and feel comfortable. I like that they are offering the other team to get the ball back and score, and I like that it encourages teams to get a touchdown and win a game rather than just kick a field goal and call it a game.

And like I was trying to say, some teams are built offense heavy and a coin toss can either make it easy for them to win or extremely hard for them to win.

I don't really like THIS rule but I wasn't in favor of the prior system either and at least this encourages teams to score a TD to win.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Beautiful. Long overdue.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Safety wins in new overtime
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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*sigh*

Lame.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Look I don't think the game is over because of a coin flip, you guys are completely taking what I'm saying and reading into it too much.

It is unfair that a team gets to start overtime with the ball based completely off a coin flip. Yes you can stop the other team, yes you can stop them in regulation, but to give one team the ball based off a coin toss is the unfair part in my opinion.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008...lip-in-ot.html

From the 2000 through 2007 regular seasons, there have been 124 overtime games. In every single game except one (I believe), the team that won the toss elected to receive. And those receiving teams won 60% of the time (and tied once). That's a relatively large advantage, particularly when compared to home field advantage.

The dreaded 'lose-the-coin-toss-never-touch-the-ball' scenario happened in 37 out of the 124 OT periods, or about 30% of all overtime games.


My whole problem with overtime the way it was before was that teams never had to play for a touchdown, they could get to about a 50 yard field goal with a good kicker and feel comfortable. I like that they are offering the other team to get the ball back and score, and I like that it encourages teams to get a touchdown and win a game rather than just kick a field goal and call it a game.

And like I was trying to say, some teams are built offense heavy and a coin toss can either make it easy for them to win or extremely hard for them to win.

I don't really like THIS rule but I wasn't in favor of the prior system either and at least this encourages teams to score a TD to win.
What if you kick a field goal at the end of regulation as time expires? The other team doesn't get the ball back with a chance to tie it back up. Should we put extra time back on the clock so the other team has a chance?

People act like once overtime starts, a brand new ******* game is starting and we need to make sure everybody has an equal amount of possessions and run an equal number of plays and we have to make everybody a ******* winner because people's ******* feelings get hurt during a loss. It's like ******* little league where everybody gets a god damn participation trophy and nobody's feelings are allowed to get hurt.

I have no idea how a coin toss is not fair. It is THE fairest procedure in the history of humankind. The only fairer thing I could think of is to play rock, paper, scissors to decide who gets the ball first because then there's some actual competition going into it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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What if you kick a field goal at the end of regulation as time expires? The other team doesn't get the ball back with a chance to tie it back up. Should we put extra time back on the clock so the other team has a chance?
It's different, both teams play a full length 60 minute game and a different team gets the ball to start each half. In overtime, one team gets the ball and can win on a field goal at the beginning without the other team ever getting a chance (Yes I know you can stop on defense, I'm just saying it's not the same as regulation, because it isn't)


Quote:
I have no idea how a coin toss is not fair. It is THE fairest procedure in the history of humankind. The only fairer thing I could think of is to play rock, paper, scissors to decide who gets the ball first because then there's some actual competition going into it.
How is it fair that a coin toss decides who gets the ball first in a system where if you score first you win the game?
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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If there wasn't an obvious benefit to being on offense first, why does every team (except those coached by Marty Morninwheg apparently) choose to receive?
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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I agree overtime should not be decided by a coin toss. It is an extremely unfair way to decide who gets the ball and basically win the game.

I would propose that if the game goes into overtime, the ref should call the 3 team captains to the middle of the field and they decide who gets the ball by a game of rock, paper, scissors best 2 of 3. This will make overtime completely fair and help train the players to be clutch.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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I agree overtime should not be decided by a coin toss. It is an extremely unfair way to decide who gets the ball and basically win the game.

I would propose that if the game goes into overtime, the ref should call the 3 team captains to the middle of the field and they decide who gets the ball by a game of rock, paper, scissors best 2 of 3. This will make overtime completely fair and help train the players to be clutch.
I'd watch the rock paper scissors competition for sure.


Oh and that's a stupid rule change.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I agree overtime should not be decided by a coin toss. It is an extremely unfair way to decide who gets the ball and basically win the game.

I would propose that if the game goes into overtime, the ref should call the 3 team captains to the middle of the field and they decide who gets the ball by a game of rock, paper, scissors best 2 of 3. This will make overtime completely fair and help train the players to be clutch.
I love this guy.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I agree overtime should not be decided by a coin toss. It is an extremely unfair way to decide who gets the ball and basically win the game.

I would propose that if the game goes into overtime, the ref should call the 3 team captains to the middle of the field and they decide who gets the ball by a game of rock, paper, scissors best 2 of 3. This will make overtime completely fair and help train the players to be clutch.
Why did know one think of this before?
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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It's different, both teams play a full length 60 minute game and a different team gets the ball to start each half. In overtime, one team gets the ball and can win on a field goal at the beginning without the other team ever getting a chance (Yes I know you can stop on defense, I'm just saying it's not the same as regulation, because it isn't)




How is it fair that a coin toss decides who gets the ball first in a system where if you score first you win the game?
Because the entire system was never created to be fair to the first place. The overtime system was made the way it was because originally the owners felt that if two teams couldn't come to a conclusion after four hours of beating the **** out of each other, then well damn, they need to do something to end it as quickly as possible after that. That's why it was made sudden death in the first place. If being fair is the name of the game, then they need to just play either a full quarter, or an 8 minute quarter or something to that extent.

They say they're changing the rules because teams are getting too good of field position because they moved the kickoff back to the 30 and because field goal kickers are getting too accurate. So they're basically admitting that a previous rule change had huge implications on the outcome of games. Solution? Stop ******* changing rules every year and move the god damn kick off back to the 35 and you wouldn't have to come up with an overtime overhaul.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Why did know one think of this before?
I did, like five posts up from him. I said a coin toss is the fairest thing in the entire world, behind only rock, paper, scissors.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but if you lose a coin toss and you are an offense oriented team then it is definitely unfair.
What? It's unfair that your defense is garbage? That is no one's fault but the team's.

The concept of overtime should have nothing to do with whether a team's offense is better than their own defense or the other team's defense is not as good as their own offense, or whatever. Bottom line is that you man up no matter what kind of offense or defense you have. This recent rule change is a result of pure whining just like when Bill Polian lobbied that the rules for defensive backs and receivers be changed...when in reality he was just pissed that his own team got smacked by the Patriots in the championship game.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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the people demand multiple possessions. its good tv, owners don't mind it, and players like the idea of being able to be on the field during the crucial period. this was going to happen, and needed to happen.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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The coin flip doesn't decide ****. The coin flip is an excuse for whinny bitches to cry about losing, when all they had to do was play good defense, or even better, win the game in regulation.


This whole situation is just dumb. There was nothing wrong with the way overtime was.
THANK YOU. Whoever truly believes that a coin flip actually decides the outcome of an entire game, or overtime for that matter is most likely just bitter than their team probably lost once in an overtime contest from a team on their first drive down the field.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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I might have said this before, but I used to agree with YFS and njx. Now I don't. Here's my argument (and it's not to anyone in particular):

I wouldn't particularly mind it if we didn't have overtime at all. Ties aren't that bad. But IF we have overtime - which we do - then the reason we should have overtime is to prevent ties. Then, in that case, the concept of "fairness" in opportunities is important.

I think that assuming the point of overtime is to resolve ties, then it follows that each team should have a chance to score. A quick argument would look like this:
1. A team only normally scores with their offense.
2. Therefore, giving only one of the two teams an opportunity to score to win the game with the normal means of scoring puts an abnormal (=unfair) burden on the other team to score with defense.
3. Overtime coin tosses give one team a chance to score to win the game with their offense and not the other team's offense.
4. Overtime coin tosses cause abnormalities (are unfair).

Yes, I'm well aware that the other team can get the ball back, and often does - my quick argument is not completely sound. But as the stats show, the chances are lower. And as to the position that it seems out of place to make overtime any different than a normal game - in a normal game, each team gets plenty of chances to score. These chances are imbalanced because one team's defense is better than the other, but there's a confusion with opportunities to score and opportunities to definitely win the game. In a normal game, if a team has more opportunities to score than the other because their defense or SP is better, that is still fair because the other team still had opportunities to score (and well, that's just how the game is). In overtime, if you win the toss and score, you have 100% won the game, not in virtue of both your offense and your defense but in virtue of your offense and the random coin toss being your infinitely good defense (weird phrase, but I think you get my point).

If ties are okay, then overtime is simply not okay. I think then it is inconsistent to support overtime and to support sudden death overtime. Either support ties and disavow overtime, or avow overtime and ask for the fairest way to declare a winner, which is at the very least not sudden death.

I wish I could flesh this point out more, but I don't have the time to do so.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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"Fair is fair." ~ Billie Jean
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