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Old 03-23-2010, 06:04 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
And like I was trying to say, some teams are built offense heavy and a coin toss can either make it easy for them to win or extremely hard for them to win.
So the league should feel sorry for another team because it will be "harder" for them to score? Forget the fact that it's the team's own responsibility to field a competitive unit.

"Oh noes the game is too hard...DO OVER!!!"
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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THANK YOU. Whoever truly believes that a coin flip actually decides the outcome of an entire game, or overtime for that matter is most likely just bitter than their team probably lost once in an overtime contest from a team on their first drive down the field.
And I would contend that I may be the most bitter fan on this board, yet I still think the overtime was fine. If the most bitter asshole/sore loser on this board is fine with the overtime rule, then I don't understand why you would be for it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
If there wasn't an obvious benefit to being on offense first, why does every team (except those coached by Marty Morninwheg apparently) choose to receive?
This post is completely irrelevant. Poorly constructed argument.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a fan of first team to 4 points wins in overtime.
A field goal isn't always a bad thing for a defense. Some situations it is a mini success to hold a team to a FG. So IMO one FG shouldn't determine the game.
A TD on the other hand is always a victory for the offense. And if youre starting the game on Defense, youd better stop them, or at least hold them to a FG so your offense has a chance.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
If there wasn't an obvious benefit to being on offense first, why does every team (except those coached by Marty Morninwheg apparently) choose to receive?
Every team chooses to receive first because there is an obvious benefit. Just because there's a benefit doesn't mean that it's "unfair."
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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the change is good because a football team is more than just an offense scoring points.

teams have 3 parts-offense, defense, special teams. this rule lets all phases of a team play in crunch time.

in the old system: if it were offensive vs offensive (new orleans vs indy), then whoever got the ball first would most likely win with an easy FG.

defensive vs defensive would be fair. it would be a back and forth field position struggle.

special teams always act as a wild card with KR TDs.

in the new system:

offensive vs offensive are equal enough. TD is harder to accomplish than a FG.

defensive vs defensive is still fair.

special teams is still a wild card. teams can still return one for a TD.

verdict= rule change makes games better/more competitive.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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So, Prowler, your argument is this: If your team has a good offense but a bad defense, the overtime rule is unfair because you have a ****** defense. That is a pretty dumb argument.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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This post is full of win. LOL.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Next thing you know Polian is going to complain about the visiting team being the ones who call heads or tails first.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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So, Prowler, your argument is this: If your team has a good offense but a bad defense, the overtime rule is unfair because you have a ****** defense. That is a pretty dumb argument.
i don't make arguments, i point out truth and certain perspectives.

if the colts lose a coin toss then there is a greater than 50% chance that they will lose. there is no dumbness in that statement of fact.

i like the rule because it creates more competition regardless of a team's design or concept.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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I guess dollars are worth more than sense.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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i don't make arguments, i point out truth and certain perspectives.

if the colts lose a coin toss then there is a greater than 50% chance that they will lose. there is no dumbness in that statement of fact.

i like the rule because it creates more competition regardless of a team's design or concept.
Well you could always bend the truth to make it sound how you would like it to.

And where did you come up with this statistic with the Colts losing more than 50% due to a coin toss?
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Well you could always bend the truth to make it sound how you would like it to.

And where did you come up with this statistic with the Colts losing more than 50% due to a coin toss?
I posted it on the last page about lately teams have lost 60% of the games in overtime when they lose the coin toss but you completely ignored it and said that there is nothing unfair about it.

Personally I would rather the teams just play a 10 minute quarter and if it is tied at the end of that then the game would end in a tie.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I posted it on the last page about lately teams have lost 60% of the games in overtime when they lose the coin toss but you completely ignored it and said that there is nothing unfair about it.

Personally I would rather the teams just play a 10 minute quarter and if it is tied at the end of that then the game would end in a tie.
Yeah but did you read the reasoning of WHY that's been happening? Because they decided to move the kickoff from the 35 to the 30, leading to better field position and an easier drive. Before that, the percentages were dead ******* even.

So instead of overhauling the whole overtime system, why not just move the kickoff back?
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Well you could always bend the truth to make it sound how you would like it to.

And where did you come up with this statistic with the Colts losing more than 50% due to a coin toss?
are you serious? can you not make statements for an argument without directing it personally at somebody? chill out dude. i used the colts as an example of an offense oriented team. due to the salary cap, very few teams are composed of #1 rated offense and defenses, so i decided to divide the teams into areas of strength. the colts imperfectly fit the mold of an offense heavy/weaker defensive team. they are imperfect because their defense is good, but only against the pass from a position of strength. (gameplan is freeney and mathis forcing turnovers with basic coverage behind them)

i used pretty basic deduction skills to figure out that the colts best chance, as an offensive based team, is to have the ball in manning's hands. if the defense is on the field then there is a chance that manning won't have the ball in his hands, which is less than ideal. i consider less than ideal to be < 50%. i did look up Indy's OT games and only found 2 since 2004. both against San Diego. one game they won the coin toss and manning scored instantly. the other game the chargers won and manning never saw the field. so yes i was correct in saying that. just take my word for it next time.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but did you read the reasoning of WHY that's been happening? Because they decided to move the kickoff from the 35 to the 30, leading to better field position and an easier drive. Before that, the percentages were dead ******* even.

So instead of overhauling the whole overtime system, why not just move the kickoff back?
That's fine, I don't like the old system by any means, and this new one isn't great either but I do like it a bit more.

No one can tell me when they lose the coin toss that their heart doesnt sink a little bit.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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are you serious? can you not make statements for an argument without directing it personally at somebody? chill out dude. i used the colts as an example of an offense oriented team. due to the salary cap, very few teams are composed of #1 rated offense and defenses, so i decided to divide the teams into areas of strength. the colts imperfectly fit the mold of an offense heavy/weaker defensive team. they are imperfect because their defense is good, but only against the pass from a position of strength. (gameplan is freeney and mathis forcing turnovers with basic coverage behind them)

i used pretty basic deduction skills to figure out that the colts best chance, as an offensive based team, is to have the ball in manning's hands. if the defense is on the field then there is a chance that manning won't have the ball in his hands, which is less than ideal. i consider less than ideal to be < 50%. i did look up Indy's OT games and only found 2 since 2004. both against San Diego. one game they won the coin toss and manning scored instantly. the other game the chargers won and manning never saw the field. so yes i was correct in saying that. just take my word for it next time.
Football has a wide variety of variables that can't possibly be calculated. It depends what teams you're playing, the weather, penalties, etc. "Basic deduction skills" aren't going to give you a realistic chance to the Colts chances to win an overtime game. Neither will taking two examples in years past and concluding that the Colts have a 50% chance to win an overtime contest. The entire thing is completely random due to the unpredictable variables. Therefore, a prediction can not be made. And please don't say anything about the salary cap being a crutch. All teams have the same disadvantage obviously.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Football has a wide variety of variables that can't possibly be calculated. It depends what teams you're playing, the weather, penalties, etc. "Basic deduction skills" aren't going to give you a realistic chance to the Colts chances to win an overtime game. Neither will taking two examples in years past and concluding that the Colts have a 50% chance to win an overtime contest. The entire thing is completely random due to the unpredictable variables. Therefore, a prediction can not be made. And please don't say anything about the salary cap being a crutch. All teams have the same disadvantage obviously.
another good point is that this overtime change is only meaningful maybe one game every handful of years. its only good in the playoffs, and then teams have to not score a touchdown on the first drive for this rule change to even be any different from how things are now.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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awesome. what an idiotic ******* rule.
lol njx thats exactly how i pictured your response to this haha
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Well, ultimately this could take more than a year to affect games, so we won't know how positively/negatively it will change the results. Judgement should still be pending, not decided.

My only argument, previously stated in this thread would be that defenses could make a stop in OT and still lose, where it should be rewarded with something other than just a loss.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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another good point is that this overtime change is only meaningful maybe one game every handful of years. its only good in the playoffs, and then teams have to not score a touchdown on the first drive for this rule change to even be any different from how things are now.
If it's going to have so little of an effect, why make the rule change then?
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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People should also keep in mind that special teams is an important part of the game. By changing these rules you're basically taking away an opportunity for special teams to win the contest. Why can't a kicker have a chance to shine and win the game on the first series? Why not? Offense, defense, and special teams are equally important in my mind.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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People should also keep in mind that special teams is an important part of the game. By changing these rules you're basically taking away an opportunity for special teams to win the contest. Why can't a kicker have a chance to shine and win the game on the first series? Why not? Offense, defense, and special teams are equally important in my mind.
they do, as long as their team's defense makes a stop.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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they do, as long as their team's defense makes a stop.
LOL no, then you're giving the defense a chance to win the game. Not special teams. That would be the defense winning the game seeing as their on the field last. The kicker isn't going to be hoisted on on people's shoulders when the defense has to go out and play another series.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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LOL no, then you're giving the defense a chance to win the game. Not special teams. That would be the defense winning the game seeing as their on the field last. The kicker isn't going to be hoisted on on people's shoulders when the defense has to go out and play another series.
but it would be a contribution by the special teams, offense, and defense. All three aspects come together to win a game.
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