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Old 01-08-2014, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Grizzlegom View Post
They played in the PED era, that's all that matters!!!!



Edit: Rafael Palmeiro falls off the ballot after failing to get to 5%
I mean, of all the steroid guys, I have no problem with Palmeiro never getting in because of the way his situation went down.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Maddux faced 20,421 batters during his career and only 310 saw a 3-0 count. 177 of those were intentional walks.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Next year Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz will all be eligible, so I'm not sure it'll get much better.
Then in 2019, we have Halladay, Pettitte, and Mariano Rivera. Mussina and Schilling's best chance in the near future appears to be between 2016 and 2018.
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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Then in 2019, we have Halladay, Pettitte, and Mariano Rivera. Mussina and Schilling's best chance in the near future appears to be between 2016 and 2018.
I'm really annoyed that Glavine got in so easily while guys who were probably better, like Mussina and Schilling, have such a difficult time. Hell, Kevin Brown is better, yet has no chance.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:42 AM    (permalink
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I'm really annoyed that Glavine got in so easily while guys who were probably better, like Mussina and Schilling, have such a difficult time. Hell, Kevin Brown is better, yet has no chance.
It was so he'd go in with Maddux and Cox. Shame Smoltz is next year.

And being left-handed had a lot to do with it, as well.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
Then in 2019, we have Halladay, Pettitte, and Mariano Rivera. Mussina and Schilling's best chance in the near future appears to be between 2016 and 2018.
Rivera 100%. Halladay borderline and Pettitte just no way.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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Rivera 100%. Halladay borderline and Pettitte just no way.
There's absolutely no way Pettitte gets in.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
There's absolutely no way Pettitte gets in.
The writers could troll us like they did this year and vote him in because he "came clean" with his HGH use. Even if he didn't do HGH he doesn't deserve it anyway but I could see a major troll job here.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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I could maybe see it, but you have to remember that the writers are a very envious group of human beings and they are very unlikely to forgive or forget (nevermind both). These are people who basically never played sports. A large portion of them couldn't or didn't even play sports in grade school. They hold a particularly strong form of envy and like to make sure athletes know full well the power the writers have over their legacies.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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I have absolutely no problem with what Dan LaBatard did.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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my boner for Maddux won't stop letting me post stuff about him to prove he's the GOAT.

Quote:
What sets Maddux apart is an analytical, Pentium-quick mind that constantly processes information no one else sees. At home in Las Vegas he is a formidable poker player, detecting when an opponent has a good hand by the way he strokes his chin or suddenly stops fiddling with his chips. Maddux uses a numerical system in his head that tells him when to stand and when to hit at the blackjack table. But he is even better at analyzing hitters—so good that four times this year, while seated next to Smoltz in the dugout, he has warned, "This guy's going to hit a foul ball in here." Three of those times a foul came screeching into the dugout.
Quote:
Once while seated in the Braves' dugout as third baseman Jose Hernandez batted for the Los Angeles Dodgers, Maddux blurted out, "Watch this. The first base coach may be going to the hospital." On the next pitch Hernandez drilled a line drive off the chest of the first base coach.

Another time Atlanta manager Bobby Cox visited Maddux on the mound with runners on second and third and two outs. Cox suggested an intentional walk.

"Don't worry," said Maddux, who then spelled out to Cox the sequence of his next three pitches: "And on the last pitch I'm going to get him to pop up foul to third base." Maddux proceeded to escape the jam on his third pitch—getting a pop-up to third base that was a foot or two from being foul.
Quote:
When they played together on the Cubs, Mark Grace once noticed Maddux walking around the pitching mound in a very strained, uncomfortable manner. Fearing his teammate was hurt, Grace approached the mound, only to find Maddux in an state of obvious physical excitement, the kind normally reserved for passionate endeavors.

"Man, you really do love to pitch," Grace marveled.

It's the best story I've ever heard from Grace. And that's saying something.
http://deadspin.com/as-greg-maddux-s...top-1497594282

Fangraph had an article yesterday about the greatness of Maddux.

Quote:
Greg Maddux threw 200 innings in every single season from 1988 to 2001, with the streak snapping after throwing just 199 1/3 innings in 2002, before he proceeded to throw four more consecutive seasons with 200 innings pitched. That streak stopped in 2007, when he just threw 198 innings. Or, put another way, Maddux threw 198 or more innings in every single season from age-22 to age-41, even though the 1994 strike ended the season in 1994 (202 innings in 25 starts) and caused it to begin late in 1995 (210 innings in 28 starts). For 20 straight years, Maddux was a guaranteed 200 innings, even if Major League Baseball didn’t even bother to finish their season.
Quote:
In 1994, the league average home run rate per nine innings jumped to 1.04, up from 0.90 in 1993, which is one of the main reasons it is often labeled as the start of the “Steroids Era”. When the strike occurred, Matt Williams was on pace to break the all time single season home run record, and five other players looked like they might get close to it as well. And in that year, the beginning of the home run boom, Maddux allowed four home runs for the entire season. Four. It’s the only season of the last 60 years where a pitcher has thrown 200 innings and given up fewer than five home runs, and it happened in the era when home runs were most plentiful.
Quote:
And it’s not like he was Bob Tewksbury, just grooving the ball over the plate and hoping for soft contact. While Maddux was not Randy Johnson, his strikeout totals have often been undersold because strikeout rate has often been measured as total strikeouts per nine innings, rather than per batter faced. Because Maddux never put anyone on base, his innings often consisted of just three batters instead of four or five, giving him fewer opportunities to record a strikeout each inning. On a percentage basis, though, in-his-prime Maddux was actually a prolific strikeout pitcher.

Take 1995, for instance. Among pitchers who threw just 100 innings — a lower barrier than usual due to the shortened season — Maddux’s 7.77 K/9 ranked just 18th in baseball, in between Jeff Fassero and Mark Gardner. But by K%, which just looks at strikeouts per batter faced, his 23.1% strikeout rate was 5th best in baseball, putting him in a near tie with John Smoltz, who no one considered a pitch-to-contact strike-thrower. In fact, Maddux’s strikeout rate in 1995 was 35% better than the league average, and if you translate that into 2013, his 1995 strikeout rate was essentially equivalent to the K% that Matt Harvey put up last year. 1995 Maddux was 2013 Matt Harvey if he also never walked anyone and gave up the fewest number of home runs in recent baseball history.
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Not surprisingly, that 1995 season posted by Maddux is one of the best of all time. By ERA- (and minimum 150 innings pitched), it’s the 5th best run prevention season in baseball history. Only it’s not even Maddux’s best year, as his 1994 season ranks 3rd on that list. Two of the top five seasons in baseball history, in terms of run prevention relative to the league average, belong to Greg Maddux.
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And remember, he threw 200 innings in both of those seasons despite the strike reducing his number of starts, so he wasn’t just getting lifted early and letting the bullpen strand his runners. In 1994, he averaged more than 8 innings per start. He went at least 7 innings in 22 of the 25 starts he made that year, and threw 9 innings in 11 of them. He put up the third best ERA- in baseball history in a season in which he basically never let his bullpen in the game.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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my boner for Maddux won't stop letting me post stuff about him to prove he's the GOAT.
My boner for Maddux doesn't want you to stop. I'm going to spend a good part of today trying to find more stories.

The best one I read yesterday was supposedly he once threw a 75 pitch shutout, and skipped talking to the media saying, "I have a tee time at Augusta I can't miss."

If that is to be believed, dude made a tee time knowing full well that he was starting for a game earlier in the afternoon and had to be finished by a certain time to make it. I choose to believe it 100%.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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Both Chicago teams, both LA teams, Yankees, and D'backs said to be in so far for Tanaka.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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My boner for Maddux doesn't want you to stop. I'm going to spend a good part of today trying to find more stories.

The best one I read yesterday was supposedly he once threw a 75 pitch shutout, and skipped talking to the media saying, "I have a tee time at Augusta I can't miss."

If that is to be believed, dude made a tee time knowing full well that he was starting for a game earlier in the afternoon and had to be finished by a certain time to make it. I choose to believe it 100%.
yep. Dude once went over 72 innings consecutive innings without issuing a walk and once had a 76 pitch complete game
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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“One time,” [Leo] Mazzone [the Braves pitching coach] said with a laugh, “he said to me, ‘Come on out and visit me. I haven’t seen you [on the mound] in a couple of months.’ He said, ‘You know, Leo, it gets kind of lonely out there. So why don’t you come out and visit me in the sixth inning.’

“So sure enough, he’s shutting out the Mets, and he looks in the dugout with one out in the sixth. And Bobby [Cox] says to me, ‘Mad Dog is looking for you. Go out there and make sure he’s all right.’ So I go out there and he says, ‘I’m glad you came out. My catcher doesn’t speak English. I’m tired of talking to Chipper. So it was nice of you to come out here. You got anything you need to ask me?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, you planning on going seven tonight or all nine?’”*
I heard that on MLB radio yesterday.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Deadspin just posted this:

Quote:
Eddie Perez caught 832 1/3 innings from Maddux, by far the most of any catcher, all with the Atlanta Braves. He caught Maddux's final Cy Young season, which capped a four-year era in which Maddux was 75-29 with a 1.98 ERA. His strikeout-to-walk ratio was 7. And early on, when Perez was learning the big-league game, Maddux called nearly every pitch from the mound.

"Now I can talk about it," Perez said Tuesday.

When Perez returned the ball to the mound, he said, Maddux would designate the next pitch by the way he caught the ball, or the way he held his right hand, or touched his cap. And Perez would follow along. It went on like that for months, until Perez decided he knew the opposing hitters and Maddux well enough to take over.

"I got it," he told Maddux one afternoon. "Let me call tonight's game."

Maddux nodded and went along with it, shaking off Perez only two or three times. They won the game. Perez was elated.

"How'd I do?" Perez asked proudly.

Maddux looked up at Perez and said, "Those two or three? That's too much."
Along with this comment, which is too perfect:

Quote:
Seriously, we can never have too many stories like this about Greg Maddux. Every baseball story should just be a story about Greg Maddux, like this one. More Greg Maddux.
http://deadspin.com/heres-an-awesome...dux-1497441759
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I always considered Pedro's peak the GOAT. Not anymore

Maddux:
1994 16-6 1.56 ERA 271 ERA+
1995 19-2 1.63 ERA 260 ERA +

Pedro:
1999 23-4 2.07 243 ERA+
2000 18-6 1.74 291 ERA+

It's extremely close. But I'd give Maddux the edge.

Lets examine Maddux's ERA in those two seasons

Quote:
-In the following season, 1995, Maddux was 19-2 and posted the third-lowest ERA since Gibson's: 1.63. Maddux became the first pitcher to post back-to-back ERAs under 1.80 since Walter Johnson in 1918 (1.27) and 1919 (1.49); Johnson is the only other pitcher in history to do so. Maddux's 1.63 ERA came in a year when the overall league ERA was 4.23.

-Since the introduction of the live-ball era in 1920, there have only been five pitchers to have full-season ERAs under 1.65: Gibson and Luis Tiant in the anomalous 1968 season, Gooden in 1985, and Greg Maddux, twice.
Maddux also made the greatest play by a pitcher I've ever seen. Man on first and nobody out. The batter hit a hard one hopper back to the mound. The ball was coming shoulder level and he reached out his glove. Just before the ball was caught he jerked his glove away allowing the ball to pass.

He realized that the ball would get to 2nd base faster than if he caught it, turned and threw. It was an easy double play for the Braves.

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Old 01-09-2014, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Pedro never got 3 inches off the plate like Maddux did. With that said Maddux is amazing and I'm not taking anything away from him but Pedro>Maddux for me.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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FIP says Pedro destroyed Maddux in those respective years. He was also pitching in the AL East.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Pedro never got 3 inches off the plate like Maddux did. With that said Maddux is amazing and I'm not taking anything away from him but Pedro>Maddux for me.
3? More like 6. Him and Glavine.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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3? More like 6. Him and Glavine.
I was being generous because I like Maddux. Someone made a joke that Maddux and Glavine's plaques should be 6 inches wider than all the other HOF pitchers. Thought that was a good zing.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Pedro has a better peak. And Kevin Brown, Mussina and Schilling are still better than Glavine with Brown/Schilling having MUCH better peaks.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Maddux was renowned for clubhouse pranks to push the boundaries of human decency. Here’s a short list of the stuff his teammates have actually admitted to, which, according to them, is still far short of the worst stuff Maddux pulled. That, to say the least, is both terrifying and impressive.

- According to an interview on The Dan Patrick Show with John Smoltz, Maddux used to use his rental car to rear end other players’ rental cars until the bumper literally fell off. And, when in other people’s rental cars, like Smoltz’s, Maddux would spit tobacco everywhere while picking his nose and leaving it wherever he felt like it. In the clubhouse, Maddux would hawk loogies onto the ceiling and wait for them to fall on reporters and other innocent passersby. Maddux was also a fan of telling complete and total lies, such as claiming that any fly ball in the air for six seconds is caught 100% of the time, which would lead to lengthy teammate debates during fly balls immediately after.
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The following is from a Jerry Crasnick story on ESPN in 2007, after Maddux joined the San Diego Padres:

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Maddux? For a guy with a CPA’s demeanor, he has a sense of humor that a 12-year-old would envy. Maddux is a master of strategically timed nose picking, sidling up to an unsuspecting rookie in the shower and urinating on the kid’s leg, and inventing just the right nickname for a teammate with big ears, a prominent schnozz or some other pronounced physical qualities.

“I call him ‘The Silent Scumbag,’” Wells said. “You would perceive him to be Einstein because he’s quiet and he’s always sitting there at his locker with a crossword puzzle. But he’s got a silent sickness to him, sort of like David Cone. Those quiet guys are the ones you have to watch out for.”
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Kevin Towers, current Diamondbacks GM and former Padres GM, claims that Maddux used to do horrible things to the clubhouse chili.

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“All I can tell you is ‘don’t eat the chili.’ I can’t go any further than that. (Maddux put) foreign objects in the chili.”
I don’t know what exactly Greg Maddux was doing to ruin his team’s chili night, but as a long time Braves fan I’ve heard stories (that I cannot currently find links to, sadly) that Maddux had a habit of taking craps in people’s shoes, and also on one occasion took a **** on top of someone’s birthday cake. So, uh, Greg Maddux might have been ******** in the San Diego chili.
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Maddux also liked to pee in hot tubs, because of course he did.

I could tell you about how he (allegedly) urinated in the hot tub when he was a young Cubs pitcher, that story told to me years ago by Andre Dawson, who was in the big tub with a couple of other Cubs veterans when young Maddux informed them that he’d relieved himself in it a few minutes earlier.
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Once, Greg Maddux was apparently so worked up to pitch a game that former Cub Mark Grace caught him roaming the pitcher’s mound with a full erection, with no regard for where he was.

When they played together on the Cubs, Mark Grace once noticed Maddux walking around the pitching mound in a very strained, uncomfortable manner. Fearing his teammate was hurt, Grace approached the mound, only to find Maddux in an state of obvious physical excitement, the kind normally reserved for passionate endeavors.

“Man, you really do love to pitch,” Grace marveled.
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After Chipper Jones got his first hit, the then rookie wanted to hold onto the ball as a keepsake. When he got back in the dugout, he discovered that Maddux had hawked a loogie on it.
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Story about Greg Maddux, keep me anonymous – when he signed late in his career with the padres he wasn’t working out or running as much.. Because he’s fricking Greg Maddux

– the GM told him to set a better example for the younger guys and to get into atleast decent shape to pitch. The next day he beat everyone to the ballpark early in the morning. He took a treadmill and moved it right behind the doors to enter the facility. He started running on it fully naked – junk flying everywhere telling everyone who came in, including people who worked at the spring training complex he was trying to get in better shape per the big boys upstairs.
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Most disturbing of all though, is that this is only the tip of the iceberg according to fellow Hall of Famer Tom Glavine.

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“Unfortunately, you can’t write half of the stuff he did, because he wasn’t proper.”
Greg Maddux is a sick, sick bastard.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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So guys, Maddux is going in as a Cub, right?






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Old 01-10-2014, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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Pedro has a better peak. And Kevin Brown, Mussina and Schilling are still better than Glavine with Brown/Schilling having MUCH better peaks.
Right or wrong, voters still value LHP. And there's a decent argument that Glavine, being a lefty, was at more of a disadvantage than even RHP from the AL.

Not saying that's my opinion, but it's a listentoable argument. Also, if Glavine didn't go in with Maddux, he wasn't likely to get in for awhile.
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