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Old 06-03-2010, 11:41 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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Originally Posted by sbh15 View Post
he probably handled it well because he understands that in the long run a perfect game won't really mean a lot to his career. if he's a great pitcher, a perfect game or lack there of won't change that. if he's terrible, he's just some guy in the record books.

gallaraga's "perfect game" will be just as revered as dallas braden's is X amount of years down the road but in the grand scheme of things, whether this happened or not won't change anything.

that doesn't mean i'm against changing the call, if you can do it, then do it, but i think we overestimate how important this is to guys. sure, it's a great individual achievement, but throwing a perfect game doesn't guarantee you induction into the hall of fame, it doesn't even mean you'll make a single all-star game in your entire career. i think he really would have been content with the fact that he pitched a complete game, one-hit shutout, and that he got his team a W. the only thing tainting his performance is a blown call, but had it come in the fourth inning, would we really be having this much of a discussion?

this makes me feel like gallaraga is a guy who doesn't really give a damn about individual achievement because he was lucky to even have the opportunity he did. i think he understands that when all 162 games are up that one blemish in this box score isn't going to change what detroit's record looks like.

this is really the point i was trying to make earlier. a perfect game really doesn't mean anything in the long run. it's just one time in your career where you couldn't be touched. one game out of the hundreds he might start or play in through his career. and the truth is that no matter what the books say, he was unhittable. i don't think he gives a damn about having his name on some super wikipedia 250 years in the future.

this is just my opinion, though. i think a perfect game seems like a lot to us, but in reality, it doesn't mean ****.
You are very right on a lot of points here, but the fact remains: there's only 20 perfect games in 120+ years of baseball history.

I honestly think that the recent perfect games by Braden and Halladay only softened the significance/outcry of this controversy (yes, I believe it could have been worse). In a sense, some people might think the novelty has worn off. Which is sad, because it remains one of the greatest achievements in sports.

And the temperament of Armando shouldn't really factor into anything. It's noble of him to have acted how he did, but no one would have blamed him for being irate (Joyce said so himself).
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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You're right Xio but if he's the one most directly affected by it and he's not making a huge stink then you sort of have to wonder.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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But I'm still firmly against changing the call for Gallaraga. Calls are blown with crucial wins and losses on the line in more important situations like the playoffs or world series. Wouldn't it be in the "best interest of the game" for those calls to be correct too?
Ive avoided this thread/discussion because thoughts of last nights game leave me with a stomach pain. However, your argument against fixing it is... 'well theyve made bad calls in the past, so thats a good enough reason to continue to allow bad calls to happen'. Thats basically the gist of it, no? Pretty lame argument if you ask me.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Someone on ESPN was making the point that Jim Joyce will be more affected by than Armando in the long run. If Selig changed the call it would save Joyce from all the things he's going to get everyday in other parks and not to mention his whole life. Selig should change it for Joyce and not GaGa.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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You're right Xio but if he's the one most directly affected by it and he's not making a huge stink then you sort of have to wonder.
I don't think it changes anything. I just hope this becomes the event that spurns change in a league that desperately needs updating.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Again, I still see no problem with ruling it an umpire error and recording it as a 28 out perfect game. My anger is pretty much gone and I'm to the point where I'm alright with it, but this is still a solution.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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What I don't get it is there have been playoff games, which to me have way more signifigance where bad plays were made not even close to this type of outrage was showed. A perfect game is an incredible individual achievement but getting games right in the playoffs has way more to do with the heart of the sport. If nobody is going to make a big stink during a playoff game then you have to calm down on this. I was real pissed at this at first but now so many ridiculous things have been said by people who don't even like baseball that it's starting to get on my nerves.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Baltimore still is pissed about the Jeffrey Maier play, so I wouldn't say it's going to be as big as that for instance.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Baltimore still is pissed about the Jeffrey Maier play, so I wouldn't say it's going to be as big as that for instance.
It's ok Orioles fans should know that I got their back one day in regards to that. Also, if they don't make replay official after something like that then this can't have as big of an outrage.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Baltimore still is pissed about the Jeffrey Maier play, so I wouldn't say it's going to be as big as that for instance.
And wouldn't you think if Selig was going to invoke this "best interest of baseball" bs, that would have been a more appropiate time to do so. If you are going to do this for Gallaraga, where do you stop?
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Ive avoided this thread/discussion because thoughts of last nights game leave me with a stomach pain. However, your argument against fixing it is... 'well theyve made bad calls in the past, so thats a good enough reason to continue to allow bad calls to happen'. Thats basically the gist of it, no? Pretty lame argument if you ask me.
They've made bad calls this season that have affected wins and losses. If you are going to fix this game, you have to go and fix those too. No?
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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The best interest of baseball begins with further advancing of instant replay, and it needs to happen immediately. There is no reason for Bud to need time for this ********, it's an easy fraking decision and he's only delaying because he's a stupid coward.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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I'm actually suprised this didn't happen to a Mets pitcher. It would have made so much more sense if it did to our no hitter cursed ballclub.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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If he didn't do it in 95 he's definitely not doing it for this.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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They've made bad calls this season that have affected wins and losses. If you are going to fix this game, you have to go and fix those too. No?
You have to start somewhere. Unfortunately Bud Selig and the mlb share this odd logic of yours, bringing up past mistakes to try and explain why other mistakes shouldnt be corrected. It would be nice if next time one of these calls affected a win or loss there was a system set in place to fix it, don't you think? Or you can continue to stick to your guns and every time a fixable mistake occurs you can just rant about other mistakes as a rather sad excuse to leave things as they are.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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What I don't get it is there have been playoff games, which to me have way more signifigance where bad plays were made not even close to this type of outrage was showed. A perfect game is an incredible individual achievement but getting games right in the playoffs has way more to do with the heart of the sport. If nobody is going to make a big stink during a playoff game then you have to calm down on this. I was real pissed at this at first but now so many ridiculous things have been said by people who don't even like baseball that it's starting to get on my nerves.
I think you take it one step at a time. Fixing a "fixable" mistake like last night is easier than fixing something with implications independent of the simple win and loss that results from a game.

What bothers me is the notion that every past injustice would need to be reconsidered and changed as a result of implementing a new precedent now.

Yes, it's a crying shame that the outcome of significant games has been effected in the past, but why do baseball purists (or just disgruntled, argumentative people) have to demand we stick to a past precedent?

Declare a new standard for reviewing blown calls (while detailing what is reviewable and what is not) and move forward to a new era of better baseball.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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He doesn't even have to bring up past mistakes, as a second base ump cost the Twins a game right after the Galarraga disaster. Combining that with the insanely stupid Sean Rodriguez call, and it's a catastrafuck of calls in one day that just shows REPLAY IS NEEDED.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Wow, Nerv and I just posted the same damn thing.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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You have to start somewhere. Unfortunately Bud Selig and the mlb share this odd logic of yours, bringing up past mistakes to try and explain why other mistakes shouldnt be corrected. It would be nice if next time one of these calls affected a win or loss there was a system set in place to fix it, don't you think? Or you can continue to stick to your guns and every time a fixable mistake occurs you can just rant about other mistakes as a rather sad excuse to leave things as they are.
Well if thats the case you have to institute instant replay like some are advocating. You cannot go back and change anything in the past including this game. And when you do institute replay, you have to do it during the offseason. Either way there will always be mistakes. NFL refs get calls wrong even with replay.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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I'm not against making replay more a part of the game it just has to be a system that won't kill the game completely. More and more people are turned off by baseball because of the length of the game and adding replay would add even more time. If they did do that they would have to install new rules to make sure that a large amount of time would not be added to the games. No more batters getting out of the box every pitch and so on.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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Well if thats the case you have to institute instant replay like some are advocating. You cannot go back and change anything in the past including this game. And when you do institute replay, you have to do it during the offseason. Either way there will always be mistakes. NFL refs get calls wrong even with replay.
So why bother at all then, eh? Lets just go with the old stick to tradition baseball way.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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I'm not against making replay more a part of the game it just has to be a system that won't kill the game completely. More and more people are turned off by baseball because of the length of the game and adding replay would add even more time. If they did do that they would have to install new rules to make sure that a large amount of time would not be added to the games. No more batters getting out of the box every pitch and so on.
Blown calls could also extend games. Another batter had to come to the plate last night = time to review the play.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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There was a 5 minute delay in the Fish/Brewers game tonight because the umps had a discussion if a Marlins runner deserved an extra base on a wild pitch that went into the dugout or not. Replay isn't going to slow down baseball much if at all. It's dumb to not have it on replays other than HRs. It's inexcusable to have easily reviewable calls get blown because people are too stubborn to take 90 seconds to look at a replay and the ******* call right.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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Well if thats the case you have to institute instant replay like some are advocating. You cannot go back and change anything in the past including this game. And when you do institute replay, you have to do it during the offseason. Either way there will always be mistakes. NFL refs get calls wrong even with replay.
It's more difficult to determine plays in the NFL on replay than in baseball, where it's pretty damn easy. Again, a fifth umpire in his own little video booth correcting judgment calls that the other umps have to make while they have an earpiece would be much shorter than coaches coming out and arguing.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by El Peefs????? View Post
So why bother at all then, eh? Lets just go with the old stick to tradition baseball way.
Sounds good to me. It's worked for 100 years. And baseball is doing as well as ever.
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