MLB Discussion Thread - Page 517

Sniper · 12-14-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

The downgrade in defense from Youk going to third is pretty damn significant, so you can't exactly overlook that in comparing how much better Gonzo is than Beltre.

On the flip side, the defense gets better in the outfield with Crawford. Boston's going to go with one outfielder- Carl Crawford can do it by himself.

Jughead10 · 12-14-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

On the flip side, the defense gets better in the outfield with Crawford. Boston's going to go with one outfielder- Carl Crawford can do it by himself.

Crawford's superior defensive ability in a sense will almost be wasted in LF in Fenway.

Nalej · 12-14-2010, 06:33 PM

Crawford's only negative on D is his weak arm.
That's minimized in left since it's so short. I like him there.

Brodeur · 12-14-2010, 06:34 PM

The point is that he's wasted in left because of the Green Monster.

Nalej · 12-14-2010, 06:37 PM

That's kinda my point too. I know what you mean though

Jughead10 · 12-14-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

The point is that he's wasted in left because of the Green Monster.

Yeah. His great play in LF is due to his speed and ability to track down balls most guys can't. Now he's in the smallest LF in baseball, and his good play will be judged by how well he can read balls banging off a huge wall.

Nalej · 12-14-2010, 06:47 PM

Damix,

In the 12 yrs Beltre's been in the league... last years 28 HRs are his second most and it was also only the 2nd time he's broke 100 RBIs. So while you claim is projections are dangerious, it would be dangerous to assume Beltre would match his number that he put up on a contract year.
While Gonzalez has averaged 30+/100+ over the last four years.
I do agree that the defense dips with Beltre gone though but I think Gonzalez is an upgrade at a corner infield position.

VMart bat will be missed from a cather's offense perspective. His defense won't be though.
I didn't want VMart back for the salary he was demanding. Granted the BoSox haven't addressed the position yet... so we'll see. I don't get about a bat, a catcher who's an above avg defender would be great
With Crawford, I love how versatile he is in the lineup. He can hit anywhere from 1 to 9 and be effective.

I agree that the team will only go as far as the Pitching staff goes.
Hopefully Beckett returns to form and Lackey can suck just a little bit less.
Having Youk and Peddy back healthy would be nice too

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 12-14-2010, 06:47 PM

Much as I hate Cliff Lee in Philly, I am loving the various pics the internet has created.

ElectricEye · 12-14-2010, 06:48 PM

The argument has officially gone over my head. I will concede. I'm nothing more than a casual observer of advanced baseball metrics, not a devout follower of them. I'm cashed out I guess.

I will say that as a Red Sox fan, I feel a TON better with Crawford and Gonzalez and Youk at 3rd than I did with last years lineup. We tried the run prevention thing last year and it fell fairly flat. Losing Beltre hurts quite a bit from a defensive perspective and offense as well but that year was a little bit fluky. Not sure if his BABIP reflects that, but in terms of watching him this year...I wouldn't feel entirely safe about offering him a monster deal. I'm not trying to be a homer or justify signing Crawford over Beltre or anything, but I think that's what Theo was thinking.

Jughead10 · 12-14-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

Who are you cheering for this upcoming world series when they face off agasint each other? It's gonna be tough!

BoSox need to hurry up and sign some bullpen help so I can say that and feel good about it

Matt Albers. Congrats. I hope it's not a major league guaranteed contract.

Brodeur · 12-14-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

Damix,

In the 12 yrs Beltre's been in the league... last years 28 HRs are his second most and it was also only the 2nd time he's broke 100 RBIs. So while you claim is projections are dangerious, it would be dangerous to assume Beltre would match his number that he put up on a contract year.
While Gonzalez has averaged 30+/100+ over the last four years.
I do agree that the defense dips with Beltre gone though but I think Gonzalez is an upgrade at a corner infield position.

VMart bat will be missed from a cather's offense perspective. His defense won't be though.
I didn't want VMart back for the salary he was demanding. Granted the BoSox haven't addressed the position yet... so we'll see. I don't get about a bat, a catcher who's an above avg defender would be great
With Crawford, I love how versatile he is in the lineup. He can hit anywhere from 1 to 9 and be effective.

I agree that the team will only go as far as the Pitching staff goes.
Hopefully Beckett returns to form and Lackey can suck just a little bit less.
Having Youk and Peddy back healthy would be nice too

The next person to mentions Runs Batted In as an argument for anything this thread gets the death penalty.

GB12 · 12-14-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

RsBI? REALLY SNIPER?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

I used RBI. Sue me.

Oh. I thought RsBI was some new made up stat I was unaware of.

Brodeur · 12-14-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB12

Oh. I thought RsBI was some new made up stat I was unaware of.

The s is at the end of Runs, why use it after I?

Nalej · 12-14-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

The next person to mentions Runs Batted In as an argument for anything this thread gets the death penalty.

Don't be simple. If you're going to bat in the 3/4 hole... RBIs are your job
Would you rather compare Beltres career OPS of 790 to Gonzalez 875?
Or that he's topped 800 4 times in his career while Gonzalez has done each of the past 5 years?

GB12 · 12-14-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

The s is at the end of Runs, why use it after I?

You don't use it at all. 118 RBI. 118 Runs Batted In. The s does not start a word.

Brodeur · 12-14-2010, 06:56 PM

You're comparing a third baseman to a first baseman, and Beltre's strength was completely zapped at Safeco during a good portion of his prime.

ElectricEye · 12-14-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

Don't be simple. If you're going to bat in the 3/4 hole... RBIs are your job
Would you rather compare Beltres career OPS of 790 to Gonzalez 875?
Or that he's topped 800 4 times in his career while Gonzalez has done each of the past 5 years?

Considering our general manager doesn't believe RBI exists, I'm hesitant to use them in a Red Sox argument haha.

Brodeur · 12-14-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Considering our general manager doesn't believe RBI exists, I'm hesitant to use them in a Red Sox argument haha.

Because Theo Epstein is a goddamn genius.

Nalej · 12-14-2010, 06:59 PM

I'd love to see what people think about a player hitting in the 4 spot who hits 28 HRs and gets only 28RBIs but has an OBP of 400
Is that guy better than someone who hits 28HRs/100 RBI/ 370 OBP...?

ElectricEye · 12-14-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I'd love to see what people think about a player hitting in the 4 spot who hits 28 HRs and gets only 28RBIs but has an OBP of 400
Is that guy better than someone who hits 28HRs/100 RBI/ 370 OBP...?

How would that be mathematically possible? It just doesn't work that way.

Damix · 12-14-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I'd love to see what people think about a player hitting in the 4 spot who hits 28 HRs and gets only 28RBIs but has an OBP of 400
Is that guy better than someone who hits 28HRs/100 RBI/ 370 OBP...?

Is it his fault there was no one on base during his home runs?

The issue with RBI is opportunity, not everyone gets the same ones.

Brodeur · 12-14-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I'd love to see what people think about a player hitting in the 4 spot who hits 28 HRs and gets only 28RBIs but has an OBP of 400
Is that guy better than someone who hits 28HRs/100 RBI/ 370 OBP...?

Uhhhh..........why are you asking that? It's not the first guys fault that he isn't getting any help.

Jughead10 · 12-14-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I'd love to see what people think about a player hitting in the 4 spot who hits 28 HRs and gets only 28RBIs but has an OBP of 400
Is that guy better than someone who hits 28HRs/100 RBI/ 370 OBP...?

It depends if no one is getting on or he just doens't hit with men in scoring position.

Nalej · 12-14-2010, 07:11 PM

I guess the implied thing in there was *clutch*... like QBs who's stat line look good at the end of the game but did squat during the first 3 qtrs when the game mattered.
BARISP, I guess. Which AGonz was damn near a 400 hitter at

Jughead10 · 12-14-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I guess the implied thing in there was *clutch*... like QBs who's stat line look good at the end of the game but did squat during the first 3 qtrs when the game mattered.
BARISP, I guess. Which AGonz was damn near a 400 hitter at

Well that's at least better. RBI doesn't prove that. Beltre's numbers in his career don't change too much between no one on, runners on, and RISP. Where Gonzo's numbers do get better with guys on base and in scoring position. But only last year did he hit .400 with RISP, over his career he's much lower than that.