MLB Discussion Thread - Page 681

Brodeur · 07-30-2011, 10:53 PM

Derek Norris is considerably more talented than Ramos. And it doesn't matter what went into his development, in the end it's a reliever. Every single year there are relievers you can find as a bargain basement acquisition and they turn into goldmines (Joaquin Benoit for the Rays, Al Al for the Tigers this year, Tyler Clippard for the Nats, etc.).

The Alex · 07-30-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Norris is going to be better than Ramos though.

What you're getting out of Ramos this year is basically just what he is. He'll hit a little better maybe but he was never a great hitter in the minors. Norris has a lot more upside.

I think they're about equal in terms of potential ceiling. Norris more than likely is going to be a better hitter but I think Ramos is going to be one hell of a defensive catcher.

That said, if I had to pick one I'd lean towards Ramos because he's at least proven he can at the very least be adequate at a big league level. That's not to say that I don't think Norris can succeed, I just like the proven commodity.

The Alex · 07-30-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Derek Norris is considerably more talented than Ramos. And it doesn't matter what went into his development, in the end it's a reliever. Every single year there are relievers you can find as a bargain basement acquisition and they turn into goldmines (Joaquin Benoit for the Rays, Al Al for the Tigers this year, Tyler Clippard for the Nats, etc.).

For real? I've only read that Norris beats him at the plate but not in the field. If you have a source, I'd like to read it. I really haven't been that involved this season in terms of following day-to-day action on the big league level and progress of prospects. I'm usually a totally nerd over that stuff.

Unrelated: I'm digging the CM Punk avatar and signature.

Brodeur · 07-30-2011, 11:08 PM

Gracias. Even if Ramos is too good defensively to move from catcher, Norris' bat could easily play at a corner outfield spot of some sort, or perhaps first. Point being, relievers just shouldn't be considered such important commodities in comparison to proven above average regulars at hard to find positions like center.

nepg · 07-30-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hines

Thomas Neal for Orlando Cabrera.

Wait...why did the Indians buy Jimenez then sell Cabrera? Odd combination of moves.

yo123 · 07-30-2011, 11:15 PM

Twins seem content on just treading water lately. Buzzkill.

Also Blackburn you are dreadful.

keylime_5 · 07-30-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Wait...why did the Indians buy Jimenez then sell Cabrera? Odd combination of moves.

b/c we don't need Cabrera with Kipnis being called up and Jason Donald in AAA (started a lot of games for us last year in the major leagues) being just as good of an option at the plate....and I don't think Cabrera was very happy riding the pine all the time now.

The Alex · 07-30-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Gracias. Even if Ramos is too good defensively to move from catcher, Norris' bat could easily play at a corner outfield spot of some sort, or perhaps first. Point being, relievers just shouldn't be considered such important commodities in comparison to proven above average regulars at hard to find positions like center.

That's true, Norris at first would be nice. I think perhaps my fandom is overriding my logic on the subject of reliever value, which is something I strive not to do. I like Storen a lot and I don't want to trade him. Not just because he's a good young pitcher with upside but becasue I'm still scarred from the 2009 bullpen. Mike MacDougal, Ron Villone, Jason Bergmann, Joe Beimel and Julian Tavares. Those were the five guys the Nats marched out of the bullpen the most during that season. Their combined K/BB was 1.3 and three of them averaged more than 5 BB/9. I think you can understand my fear of going back to that.

D-Unit · 07-30-2011, 11:26 PM

Soooo happy the Rangers declined the Padres demands for Derek Holland in return for Heath Bell. PHEW!

yo123 · 07-30-2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Soooo happy the Rangers declined the Padres demands for Derek Holland in return for Heath Bell. PHEW!

Holy ****. No wonder Bell never actually gets traded at the deadline.

The Alex · 07-30-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Soooo happy the Rangers declined the Padres demands for Derek Holland in return for Heath Bell. PHEW!

They seriously asked for Holland? Do they think Ned Colletti is calling the shots in Texas or something?

Brodeur · 07-30-2011, 11:34 PM

Koji is actually better than Heath Bell and under control for an extra year, so the Rangers are better off.

Stash · 07-30-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

If the Royals still have Melky Cabrera tomorrow at 3PM (central)... **** that.

Atlanta could use a CF...

nepg · 07-30-2011, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stash

Atlanta could use a CF...

Them and like 7 other teams... Which is why there's no reason he should be on the Royals after tomorrow.

Also, **** Soria.

Brodeur · 07-31-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Them and like 7 other teams... Which is why there's no reason he should be on the Royals after tomorrow.

Also, **** Soria.

You missed the joke.

proshoota25 · 07-31-2011, 12:15 AM

lmao apparently the rich harden to red sox deal has fallen through

nobodyinparticular · 07-31-2011, 12:21 AM

There really were A's fans who were pissed at the deal of Harden for Anderson + PTBNL. And now they got their wish. The deal has been nixed.

yodapoop · 07-31-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Twins seem content on just treading water lately. Buzzkill.

Also Blackburn you are dreadful.

Nick Blackburn is pitching is like getting Taco Bell for dinner. U get unwanted diarrhea.

Brodeur · 07-31-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular

There really were A's fans who were pissed at the deal of Harden for Anderson + PTBNL. And now they got their wish. The deal has been nixed.

Are you sure Harden didn't just die on the way to Boston?

D-Unit · 07-31-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alex

They seriously asked for Holland? Do they think Ned Colletti is calling the shots in Texas or something?

Yeah, they asked according to this:

"Rangers left-hander Derek Holland pitched a four-hitter in a 3-0 win over the Blue Jays for his fourth shutout in his last 11 starts.

He matched Cliff Lee for the major league lead with four shutouts this season, and he has as many shutouts in two months as possible Hall of Famer Andy Pettitte did in 16 seasons.

Even with all of his recent success, Holland has a 4.14 ERA for the season. He’s allowed five earned runs or more in seven of his 22 starts.

Still, today’s performance should make him pretty close to untouchable in trade discussions (the Padres have asked for him in the Heath Bell talks). Holland is just 24, and he has the stuff to shut down any offense when he’s on. His inconsistency is a concern, but he’s someone the Rangers are likely to need if they’re going to make another deep run into the postseason."

Stash · 07-31-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular

There really were A's fans who were pissed at the deal of Harden for Anderson + PTBNL. And now they got their wish. The deal has been nixed.

There seems to be a bunch of nostalgic A's fans who still see Harden the way he used to be. We have tons of pitching and Harden isn't that good. I know Anderson is no longer the prospect he once was but I was excited that someone was actually giving us something that wasn't complete garbage for Harden. Damn, I wanted that deal to happen.

Borat · 07-31-2011, 12:52 AM

Check the sig.

hawkeye123 · 07-31-2011, 12:53 AM

I know Neal sucks but we could have used him to get a decent vet catcher.

Whiteside and Stewart are complete garbage.

ElectricEye · 07-31-2011, 12:56 AM

Wow. Harden seemed like a great move for both sides. Swap reclamation projects, reunite Harden with the guy who got the most out of him in Curt Young. For what it's worth, Anderson has shown signs of life lately at the dish. Don't think he'll ever be more than average at this point, but it's worth taking a shot at the very least.

Speier is reporting that the deal isn't totally dead, but it's not a sure thing to go through anymore.

fenikz · 07-31-2011, 12:56 AM

.500/.536/1.375, 5 HR, 14 RBI, 4 2B, 1 3B, 3 SB last 7 days(6 Games) for King Upton