MLB Discussion Thread - Page 718

Giantsfan1080 · 08-19-2011, 03:00 PM

Bats is so far ahead of everyone offensively this year it really should be him. He's an average fielder also so that's not a negative. He shouldn't be blamed for what's around him this year.

Jughead10 · 08-19-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

He's 9th in Baseball Reference WAR, which is must less defensive dependent. It's either Bautista or Verlander for me.

I'm not considering pitchers. I'm in the group that don't think pitchers should be MVP. They have their own award. In any list based on value, Grandy should not be behind Pedroia or Ellsbury. His offensive numbers are significantly better.

I agree it probably should be Bautista. But I just can't see the writers giving it to him. But they probably would if their other option was a Yankee opposed to a different team.

Brodeur · 08-19-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I'm not considering pitchers. I'm in the group that don't think pitchers should be MVP. They have their own award. In any list based on value, Grandy should not be behind Pedroia or Ellsbury. His offensive numbers are significantly better.

I agree it probably should be Bautista. But I just can't see the writers giving it to him. But they probably would if their other option was a Yankee opposed to a different team.

I see no reason why Verlander shouldn't be considered, he's a player just like the rest and he's been the best player in the AL this year besides Bautista. Also, Pedro was robbed of an MVP award in 1999.

nepg · 08-19-2011, 03:09 PM

I'm in the camp that considers pitchers who are having incredible years to be viable MVP candidates. The thing with the MVP is that those starting pitchers only go every 5th game. These other guys are doing things to help the team win every single game.

But if you have a guy like Pedro in 1999 and some other great years, what they do every 5th game can be enough to warrant the award over guys who play every day.

If Verlander pulls out the Triple Crown and the Tigers win the Central... He definitely deserves it. I'd rather see a more eye-popping ERA for an MVP winner, but whatever...

Jughead10 · 08-19-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

I see no reason why Verlander shouldn't be considered, he's a player just like the rest and he's been the best player in the AL this year besides Bautista. Also, Pedro was robbed of an MVP award in 1999.

I just don't think pitchers should be considered. They have their own award. If Pedro was robbed in 1999, Guidry was robbed in 1978. But then when a similar situation happened in 86, they finally decided to give it to the pitcher. Not much consistency there.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-19-2011, 03:12 PM

Well the writers aren't consistent so that's no suprise. Also, Ellsbury and Pedroia aren't as far behind Grandy offensively as you make it out to be. Only .20 points in wOBA.

Brodeur · 08-19-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I just don't think pitchers should be considered. They have their own award. If Pedro was robbed in 1999, Guidry was robbed in 1978. But then when a similar situation happened in 86, they finally decided to give it to the pitcher. Not much consistency there.

Ugh, just don't get me started with anything involving Jim Rice. Of course Guidry was robbed, but Rice must be commended at all times.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-19-2011, 03:27 PM

Furthermore, if you take wOBA into account with park effects then Ellsbury is actually ahead of Granderson.

iowatreat54 · 08-19-2011, 04:34 PM

Cubs win! Cubs win!

Undefeated in the post Jim Hendry era! No more losses ever again!

bearsfan_51 · 08-19-2011, 04:37 PM

Wave goodbye to the playoffs, Cardinals.

And then there were two playoff races.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-19-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowatreat54

Cubs win! Cubs win!

Undefeated in the post Jim Hendry era! No more losses ever again!

Heyman was on local radio and said the leading candidates the Cubs want are Gillick, Cashman, and Bobby V. Valentine thing is weird. I could see Cashman finally leaving the Yanks for 2 reason. He seems to be fed up with everyone going over his head and I think his ego wants to show he can win without the Yanks money. I know the Cubs spend a ton also but it's still a lot less than the Yanks.

DeepThreat · 08-19-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

It's factored in, otherwise Berkman would be getting more consideration. Give me Bautista (how anyone would give it to anyone else is beyond me) and Melvin's brother.

I think it should be Bautista, but I doubt it is purely because of the idiocy of the voters. Combination of being in Toronto and not making the playoffs will kill his candidacy IMO.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006 · 08-19-2011, 05:44 PM

Cubs should throw a whole bunch of cash at the Rays Andrew Freidman to revamp the farm and run the club.

Xiomera · 08-19-2011, 05:49 PM

So I guess it's Detroit and Cleveland's turn to get into the Joe West circus tonight.

I remember the last time .... Wheeeeeeeeeee

nepg · 08-19-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devinhester=R.O.Y 2006

Cubs should throw a whole bunch of cash at the Rays Andrew Freidman to revamp the farm and run the club.

Because they have an ass ton of cash, the Cubs are a simple fix. I don't know how they keep getting retards for GMs.

They need to focus on signing bargain basement reclamation projects (that turn into Type-A and B free agents) to field a team with a low payroll and focus money towards the farm. I'd dump Zambrano for everything they can get and get on a 4-5 year plan. Because they have unlimited amounts of cash, once the Cubs get good, they'll be able to sustain it (like the Red Sox and Yankees). The problem is that they got close in 2004 and have been spending their asses off trying to maintain what they had rather than realizing the window is closed.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006 · 08-19-2011, 05:55 PM

Everything that becomes a Cub usually disappoints to some extent.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006 · 08-19-2011, 05:59 PM

Three things that killed the Cubs window back in between 2003-2005 are Mark Prior, Marcus Giles, and Dusty Baker.

yo123 · 08-19-2011, 06:04 PM

Wow.....Marcus Giles. What the hell happened to him?

Hines · 08-19-2011, 06:06 PM

Pirates lock up Tabata for 6 more seasons.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006 · 08-19-2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

Wow.....Marcus Giles. What the hell happened to him?

His collision with Mark Prior set off a chain reaction.

M.O.T.H. · 08-19-2011, 06:08 PM

I suspect he was on roids, really. His play really dropped off, he dropped some pounds. Then he just went away, had a tryout with Philly or someone and he couldnt cut it.

He was a damn good player in his prime. A doubles machine.

Dude had soooooo much power for being like 170-180. It was crazy.

Hines · 08-19-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

I suspect he was on roids, really. His play really dropped off, he dropped some pounds. Then he just went away, had a tryout with Philly or someone and he couldnt cut it.

He was a damn good player in his prime. A doubles machine.

Dude had soooooo much power for being like 170-180. It was crazy.

His brother was on roids as well.

iowatreat54 · 08-19-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Heyman was on local radio and said the leading candidates the Cubs want are Gillick, Cashman, and Bobby V. Valentine thing is weird. I could see Cashman finally leaving the Yanks for 2 reason. He seems to be fed up with everyone going over his head and I think his ego wants to show he can win without the Yanks money. I know the Cubs spend a ton also but it's still a lot less than the Yanks.

Gillick is being looked at for President, not GM. He's already told the Cubs he doesn't want to be GM, but wouldn't mind interviewing for president.

Also, Ricketts has said they are going to look for someone that will be able to develop an organization from the lower levels up and focus more on building from within than making big signings and trades. He also plans on reorganizing the front office so that the baseball and business aspects of the team are not being handled by the same people.

I must say, I'm very surprised at how Ricketts is handling this so far. It's still early, but it's surprising in a positive way.

nepg · 08-19-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowatreat54

Gillick is being looked at for President, not GM. He's already told the Cubs he doesn't want to be GM, but wouldn't mind interviewing for president.

Also, Ricketts has said they are going to look for someone that will be able to develop an organization from the lower levels up and focus more on building from within than making big signings and trades. He also plans on reorganizing the front office so that the baseball and business aspects of the team are not being handled by the same people.

I must say, I'm very surprised at how Ricketts is handling this so far. It's still early, but it's surprising in a positive way.

Give Billy Beane his shot with a team with money.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-19-2011, 06:36 PM

Good thing we have Sandy, Depo, and JP locked up. Especially Depo.