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Old 05-10-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
When the Rangers trade Josh Hamilton at the deadline because they can't agree on an extension, then they will need Jacoby.
I'll take this argument full circle then and say trade him to Seattle. Not sure we have much the Rangers would want but there are some great arms in the minors.

As for those defending Guttierez i'd say when is he ever healthy and when he is he looks like a .250 hitter to me.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Vlad signed with the Jays! minor league deal
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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It's officially hit rock bottom. Beckett is booed viciously before and after getting rocked, the team removed someone who had elected to wear a bag on their head from the game, Fenway is about 60% full and the greaseball ownership is still calling it a sell out....It's done. Burn it all to the ground. Trade everyone you can, it's time to start over.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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It's officially hit rock bottom. Beckett is booed viciously before and after getting rocked, the team removed someone who had elected to wear a bag on their head from the game, Fenway is about 60% full and the greaseball ownership is still calling it a sell out....It's done. Burn it all to the ground. Trade everyone you can, it's time to start over.
Trade Beckett and Youk... Now please.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Dropping Beckett in fantasy... now. Hes trash and doesnt want to be in Boston any longer.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Dropping Beckett in fantasy... now. Hes trash and doesnt want to be in Boston any longer.
Yeah I wouldn't drop him unless you are in some **** league where you can get someone better bench him/ trade him
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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Trade Beckett and Youk... Now please.
Honestly, we're going nowhere fast this year. Even if a few things turn around, we're still looking at a mediocre type year. We might as well just embrace that and see what we can get for some of our players. Let's see what Cherington can do.

The Beckett deal needs to be done stat, obviously. The relationship between he, the team, and the fanbase is just too fractured to continue down the path it is. The crappy part is that we really aren't going to get as much as we should for him considering his crap performance this year. I would bet anything he ends up turning it around for a change of scenery. We may try to hold on to him for a bit longer to see if he can shake it off, but I just can't imagine a scenario where he's here past the trade deadline.

Youk will be moved, but that will happen slower. As of right now, we would be lucky to get a decent relief pitcher for him straight up. He needs to come back and show he's healthy/can still hit in order for a trade to fetch anything of value in return. Let someone with a hole in their lineup trying to contend get a little desperate.

But those two things are pretty obvious. Where it gets more interesting for me is what we do with the rest of the players on the roster. Ortiz is tearing the cover off the ball this year and wants a multi-year deal that we would be better served not giving him with the issues we're going to be having this year/next. Even if he does come down a bit, with the shape he's in and the adjustments he's made to his approach, he's a pretty safe bet to produce at a high level the rest of the season. It would be sad to see him go, but it's possible that we would be able to fetch a decent young player/prospect for a team looking for some offense. There's a few other guys who could be moved in minor type deals too.

I just hope we have the balls to admit that this team isn't going anywhere. I can see Lucchino and Co. being unwilling to do that. They're scrambling right now as is. The only good part is that this is finally starting to hit them where it hurts. Can't smooth talk or attempt to cover up those empty seats. Well, you could literally cover up the empty seats...but you guys know what I mean.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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It's officially hit rock bottom. Beckett is booed viciously before and after getting rocked, the team removed someone who had elected to wear a bag on their head from the game, Fenway is about 60% full and the greaseball ownership is still calling it a sell out....It's done. Burn it all to the ground. Trade everyone you can, it's time to start over.
When Theo came in, they were supposed to be the thrifty team that built their farm system and made savvy moves. They were going to be built like a small market team except they could afford to keep their homegrown talent in town. They failed miserably at all of these things in the end. They built a nice farm system, then systematically turned great pitching prospects who actually developed into players who could be very successful in a Major League rotation into relievers and traded away good young bats for almost nothing.

Yes, you have to bring in a Curt Schilling when you're close to a championship, but you don't go out and sign JD Drew, John Lackey, Carl Crawford, etc. when you have guys in your system you can bring up or lesser free agents that could be just as productive and probably even give you a discount off of what other teams would normally play because it's Boston.

The Ramirez-Beckett trade will forever be stuck in my head. Mostly because of how badly I want to hate it and that it actually did work out for Boston anyway... It'd be really nice to have Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez now, though.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...16069&c_id=mlb

hahaha not sure if they were just joking but it doesn't look like Albert was.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Theo was a good GM when he first started... Then he went oh **** I have money. Lets overpay!
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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When Theo came in, they were supposed to be the thrifty team that built their farm system and made savvy moves. They were going to be built like a small market team except they could afford to keep their homegrown talent in town. They failed miserably at all of these things.

Yes, you have to bring in a Curt Schilling when you're close to a championship, but you don't go out and sign JD Drew, John Lackey, Carl Crawford, etc. when you have guys in your system you can bring up or lesser free agents that could be just as productive and probably even give you a discount off of what other teams would normally play because it's Boston.
You do if it helps you win baseball games. Everyone knows Baseball is an unfair game at this point. We're privileged enough to have that advantage. At the end of the day, it's about results. If that means signing those guys and being the Yankees, so be it. I'm far less interested in romantic notions of building through the farm system than I am in winning. It would be nice to do things that way, but it really comes down to whatever works. That's not to say I'm satisfied by the moves the team has made the past few years...but I'm not going to pretend that I haven't enjoyed the success we've had.

The one thing I can sort of agree on is that we've traded away some young talent when we perhaps shouldn't have....but it's not like we aren't bringing it back in. We're good for two or three big over slot draft signings every year. Those haven't worked out quite as well as they should either lately though. Which again, comes back to results. We're paying for them and not getting an adequate return.


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The Ramirez-Beckett trade will forever be stuck in my head. Mostly because of how badly I want to hate it and that it actually did work out for Boston anyway... It'd be really nice to have Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez now, though.
Eh. That's the way it goes sometimes. Besides, Handley Ramirez isn't exactly the kind of guy who would thrive in this environment. He would likely fall more on the problem line than the solution one in this current environment. Sanchez is a decent pitcher, but he doesn't exactly have a track record that screams "I belong in the AL East" or a great track record with regards to health. That ended up being a fair trade for both sides, even with Beckett turning toxic.

But yeah, blow it up. Get a high draft pick, move the guys you can for prospects, and start over.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Stop bringing up JD Drew. He was worth the contract he got and was a good player for you guys.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Stop bringing up JD Drew. He was worth the contract he got and was a good player for you guys.
What? LOL , no he wasn't.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Stop bringing up JD Drew. He was worth the contract he got and was a good player for you guys.
14 million a year for a player to hit around .280, drive in 60 runs and crank out 20 homers is a good contract? Geez what are you smokin.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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5 Years 70 Million

Averaged 121 games, .264 BA .370 OBP .455 SLG .824 OPS, 57 RBI, 16 HR.

Thats not worth 14 mill a year. Not that I wasn't happy when we first signed him and most Sox fans didn't give him a fair chance but those 5 years were not worth 70 million.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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5 Years 70 Million

Averaged 121 games, .264 BA .370 OBP .455 SLG .824 OPS, 57 RBI, 16 HR.

Thats not worth 14 mill a year. Not that I wasn't happy when we first signed him and most Sox fans didn't give him a fair chance but those 5 years were not worth 70 million.
Good D, a great OBP, and a tremendous 2008/2009 is perfectly fine for that money. And you really slanted the numbers, considering he had one lousy year last year which just dragged the average numbers down.

Also, nice stat usage hb. Everyone knows RBIs are a clear evaluation of a player.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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excluding this year he has 13.3 WAR over 4 years which is worth $66.5 Mil if you go by the 5 mil per win standard

so 1 WAR this year and he has outplayed his contract
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Good D, a great OBP, and a tremendous 2008/2009 is perfectly fine for that money. And you really slanted the numbers, considering he had one lousy year last year which just dragged the average numbers down.

Also, nice stat usage hb. Everyone knows RBIs are a clear evaluation of a player.
I just grabbed the basics. Again like I said before I am not bitching about him like other Sox fans but I do think he was a bit over paid.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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I just grabbed the basics. Again like I said before I am not bitching about him like other Sox fans but I do think he was a bit over paid.
Other FA Deals for outfielders that offseason...

Soriano- 8 years/$136 million
Carlos Lee- 6 years/$100 million
Gary Matthews Jr- 5 years/$50 million

I think it worked out fine.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Good D, a great OBP, and a tremendous 2008/2009 is perfectly fine for that money. And you really slanted the numbers, considering he had one lousy year last year which just dragged the average numbers down.

Also, nice stat usage hb. Everyone knows RBIs are a clear evaluation of a player.
A tremendous 2008/2009 season? what? and when is .370 a "great" OBP? and his .391 OBP in 2009 was really his only good year, in 2010 it was .341 and in 2011 it was .315 but yep, GREAT OBP.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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A tremendous 2008/2009 season? what? and when is .370 a "great" OBP? and his .391 OBP in 2009 was really his only good year, in 2010 it was .341 and in 2011 it was .315 but yep, GREAT OBP.
2008 apparently never happened. And again, I said 2011 was a bad year for him and he was basically done at that point.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Other FA Deals for outfielders that offseason...

Soriano- 8 years/$136 million
Carlos Lee- 6 years/$100 million
Gary Matthews Jr- 5 years/$50 million

I think it worked out fine.
Touche (10 Char)
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Other FA Deals for outfielders that offseason...

Soriano- 8 years/$136 million
Carlos Lee- 6 years/$100 million
Gary Matthews Jr- 5 years/$50 million

I think it worked out fine.
This basically kills it. That Gary Matthews Jr deal is hilarious.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...16069&c_id=mlb

hahaha not sure if they were just joking but it doesn't look like Albert was.
I am gonna do, and yeah I am really stretching, but I think he is missing St. Louis man, and regretting leaving.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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This basically kills it. That Gary Matthews Jr deal is hilarious.
You can thank Jim Hendry for that.
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