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Old 03-15-2012, 12:18 PM    (permalink
Ravens1991
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Maybe it wasnt all about the $. Maybe he wanted to get away from Cam for all we know. I beleive we had roughly 7 million in cap space so i think that would have been pushing it to sign him
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Maybe it wasnt all about the $. Maybe he wanted to get away from Cam for all we know. I beleive we had roughly 7 million in cap space so i think that would have been pushing it to sign him
Well I'm not exactly sure who the hell we're paying money to that we value more then Grubbs, but I can't say I'm pleased that we're alright with a Pro Bowl player and arguably our best offensive lineman walking off on a deal we should have been able to afford to give him. Hell, Bryant McKinnie is supposed to make over 4 million dollars next year, cut his fat ass and give that money to Grubbs. Play Oher at LT and Jah Reid at RT, I don't give a flying ****. Good teams don't let elite players walk for free.

Just add it on to the disappointing list that has been our offseason. Cundiff misses a chip shot, Lee Evans and Flacco can't close, we retain Cam Cameron and bring in even more offensive inadequacy in Caldwell, and now we're letting Pro Bowls players walk in FA. I worry that after Ray and Ed retire there's going to be some very dark years for the Ravens. We haven't drafted well as of late and it's starting to show. Now we aren't doing FA properly either. Just so disappointed in the Ravens so far.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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We should have roughly $7.7 million in cap space available this off-season and bringing back Grubbs would have ate up virtually all of that. We don't know if we even would have been able to match what he's getting in the first year. Cutting McKinnie and moving Oher back to LT probably wouldn't change much and I would have done that to keep Grubbs to but it doesn't seem realistic.

I'm not sure what to make of the "we haven't drafted well lately" comment either. The only meaningful pick that could be attributed to is Kindle and since this will be his first off-season actually with the team he still might provide something.

http://ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Mo...ins-violations

At the end of that article there's a link to download a spreadsheet that breaks down the Ravens salary cap.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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We haven't done anything surprising in FA to me. We lost players I thought we would. Losing Grubbs sucks but it is what it is. Hopefully we sign Winston or Mathis and see what we can do. The LG spot is now a question mark but we knew it was going to be for a while now. I'm happier paying to keep Yanda and letting Grubbs go. Shuffling the entire OL with moving Oher to LT or LG, cutting McKinney, and starting Reid is too much of a change.

It sucks to see JJ and Redding go but I'm confident that Kruger/Kindle & Jones/McPhee should step in. Maybe we add a draft pick at either spot but its not a pressing need.

Our drafts have been fine lately. Kindle hasn't panned out because of a accident but we've done well adding talent each year and getting value.

I don't know what more you expect us to be doing in FA & the offseason. We don't have a ton of cash to bring in a ton of players.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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We haven't done anything surprising in FA to me. We lost players I thought we would. Losing Grubbs sucks but it is what it is. Hopefully we sign Winston or Mathis and see what we can do. The LG spot is now a question mark but we knew it was going to be for a while now. I'm happier paying to keep Yanda and letting Grubbs go. Shuffling the entire OL with moving Oher to LT or LG, cutting McKinney, and starting Reid is too much of a change.

It sucks to see JJ and Redding go but I'm confident that Kruger/Kindle & Jones/McPhee should step in. Maybe we add a draft pick at either spot but its not a pressing need.

Our drafts have been fine lately. Kindle hasn't panned out because of a accident but we've done well adding talent each year and getting value.

I don't know what more you expect us to be doing in FA & the offseason. We don't have a ton of cash to bring in a ton of players.
Cutting overweight, overpaid has-beens to retain young, Pro Bowl linemen would be a start. How is cutting McKinnie and retaining Grubbs a bigger change then just letting Grubbs walk outright? Either way we're instituting a new starter on the offensive line, Grubbs is just a much better player then McKinnie to retain. Really disappointed in the management on this one.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Well Winston left Kansas City without a deal and he's on his way to Baltimore. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the team signs Mathis while he's visiting tomorrow.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Currently I'd rather have Mathis for the price. Word is that Winston wants big cash and unless he will sign with us for less we probably can't sign him.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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#2 Runningback is now a top 5 need for the team.
We all know Rice is the heartbeat, but he catches and runs a ton, so overworking him is always a concern.
Currently, Anthony Allen is the backup, and he hasn't proved much.
I like his potential as a bruiser, but we need another guy that can pound it while Rice is taking a breather.
Baltimore is about smash mouth, physical football. So here's a list I've compiled of the top 5 best fit/most likely RBs that will be a Raven come April.
5) Tauren Poole - 5th.
4) Vick Ballard - 5th.
3) Chris Polk - 3rd.
2) Bernard Pierce - 3rd.
1) Robert Turbin - 3rd.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Nah I don't think so. LT, LG, C, ILB, WR, OLB, and DE all take more priority than #2 RB for me.

Looks like Winston is still in KC and might have a deal soon. That would simplify things a bit for us.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Looks like Evan Mathis could be a Raven soon.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Adam Caplan ‏ @caplannfl

Mathis to me just now: "Ravens have offered a nice deal. I'm flying back to Arizona to think about it and discuss it with my family."
That sounds good for us.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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That sounds good for us.
I'm really excited. I'm curious what his contract will be. He's a hell of a player and could possibly even be an upgrade at that spot.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I'm really excited. I'm curious what his contract will be. He's a hell of a player and could possibly even be an upgrade at that spot.
I highly doubt he's as effective as Grubbs was. Mathis has always been a nice player and even though he's come on stronger in recent years, he's still doesn't possess the power and strength at the POA that Grubbs does. He's mobile, which works well with the direction our offensive line is moving, but he's not the same caliber of player Grubbs is and he never has been. Even if he's brought in, we still have Bryant McKinnie starting at LT with Cam Cameron calling the plays. Leaves a little to be desired.

For whatever reason, our FO is set on making sure Ray and Ed waste their twilight years mentoring the young players on our D instead of prepping for a SB run. It's frustrating.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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You make it sound like Grubbs plays with a lot of power. He's a great pass-protector and that's what we needed playing next to McKinnie and Oher the last couple of years but he wasn't getting much of a push at the POA. I would rather have Grubbs as I feel he's the safer/younger/better player but he's more of a finesse guy than anything.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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You make it sound like Grubbs plays with a lot of power. He's a great pass-protector and that's what we needed playing next to McKinnie and Oher the last couple of years but he wasn't getting much of a push at the POA. I would rather have Grubbs as I feel he's the safer/younger/better player but he's more of a finesse guy than anything.
Grubbs has never been a mauler in the most stereotypical sense, but he's always been consistently grounded at the POA and rarely gets driven backwards. While his greatest strength is undoubtedly his mobility, which allows him to pull and get to the second level as well as any interior offensive lineman in the NFL, he's always had a certain amount of strength to his game that I don't really see in the way Mathis operates. Mathis also has excellent mobility and pulls extremely well, but I don't think we'll be running power iso's behind him. I think it's a downgrade from Grubbs and just another thing adding to the already extremely disappointing offseason we've had.


Ultimately it doesn't matter because I think the Cam Cameron effect will prevent us from winning the Super Bowl this season anyways, and its likely this is Ray and Ed's last shot. Unfortunate that the FO left it like this, but it is what it is.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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You make it sound like Grubbs plays with a lot of power. He's a great pass-protector and that's what we needed playing next to McKinnie and Oher the last couple of years but he wasn't getting much of a push at the POA. I would rather have Grubbs as I feel he's the safer/younger/better player but he's more of a finesse guy than anything.
This is true.



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Cincinnati Bengals

Mathis played for the Cincinnati Bengals from 20082010. He did not allow a sack during the 2009 and 2010 seasons.[6]
[edit] Philadelphia Eagles

The Philadelphia Eagles signed Mathis to a one-year contract on July 31, 2011.[7] Immediately after the preseason, Mathis won the starting job at left guard for the 2011 season.[8] ProFootballFocus.com rated Mathis as the best left guard in the NFL for the 2011 season.[9]

/me waits for APS to try to devalue PFF in an attempt to help his 'we should have overpaid from Grubbs' argument.


I can't say I really ever watched him closely in Cincy but there was a buzz about him this year when he got into Howard Mudd's scheme which isn't much different from our. Him and Peters were hands down the best side in football in the games I saw this year.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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This is true.






/me waits for APS to try to devalue PFF in an attempt to help his 'we should have overpaid from Grubbs' argument.


I can't say I really ever watched him closely in Cincy but there was a buzz about him this year when he got into Howard Mudd's scheme which isn't much different from our. Him and Peters were hands down the best side in football in the games I saw this year.
The only time I'll accept a PFF argument is when you're talking about the offensive line statistics. It's the only time they're even remotely relevant.

I remember Mathis from his Cincy days, I only saw one or two Eagles games this past season and I'd be lying if I said I was paying attention to Mathis in those games.

I hardly think the Saints overpaid for Grubbs. In fact, they signed him for much less then I thought he would go for. Paying him roughly $7 mill a season would have been fine. I expect if the NFL thinks Mathis is half as good as PFF does, he'll end up making between 5 and 6 million a year as well.

I understand that you're all trying to put a positive spin on things and look forward to us competing for a Super Bowl next season, but I don't think it's wrong to look critically at the FO moves and say that they haven't been particularly impressive. The Ravens FO has one of the less maligned reputations in the NFL, but they've been very poor in their decision making this offseason. We've lost 2 upper tier starters since FA started (Grubbs and Johnson) while retaining questionable people instead, and our roster has gotten worse since last season, not better. Seeing as how we weren't good enough to get to the Super Bowl last year, I have a really hard time envisioning us there this year. Moreover, two teams in our division have 2 first round picks and the Steelers will always be the Steelers. You guys can be happy with us losing young, elite players but I'm certainly not. It's pissing me the hell off, actually.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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I read Mathis hasn't gave up a sack since 2006. I don't see what the fuss about losing Grubbs is it's part of the business we always find a way to replace our guys. I trust Ozzie to get it done and where I don't always agree with his moves it seems to work out. It's better to just have faith then to panic and act like you could do a better job.

"Mathis, 30, was a full-time starter last year for the Eagles. According to Stats Inc., he did not allow a sack the entire season and hasn't surrendered one since 2006"

http://m.baltimoreravens.com/account...pa?entry=50817

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Old 03-16-2012, 12:49 PM    (permalink
A Perfect Score
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I read Mathis hasn't gave up a sack since 2006. I don't see what the fuss about losing Grubbs is it's part of the business we always find a way to replace our guys. I trust Ozzie to get it done and where I don't always agree with his moves it seems to work out. It's better to just have faith then to panic and act like you could do a better job.
So losing in the playoffs every year is your idea of working out?

We haven't been to a Super Bowl in 12 years. In that time, we've been relegated to playing second fiddle to the Steelers in the AFC North, who've won 2 Super Bowls in that time frame and been to another. We've consistently suffered from poor offensive production and as of late, our secondary has been repeatedly victimized due to Ozzie's total dismissal of the CB position as an area of need. Not to mention we wasted the careers of two future HoF players who are arguably the best ever at their respective positions by not providing them with what they needed to take this team to a championship.

Remind me again how exactly it's working out, because getting knocked out of the playoffs every season because our DBs can't cover anyone and our offensive line can't block anyone isn't my idea of "working out". But you're right, losing Grubbs is totally going to help keep people off Flacco.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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The jig is up ERU, what have you done with APS?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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The jig is up ERU, what have you done with APS?
Someone has to stay critical or we'd all be duped into believing we have the best FO in the NFL, which clearly isn't the case.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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You can only do so much you can't be good everywhere the players still have to go out and play. Ozzie does his best to put a winning team out there so if a kicker doesn't make a fg or a WR doesn't make a catch he can't help that. Most of our playoff losses come from plays that good veteran players screw up. I'm not saying it is a good thing to lose Grubbs but because we know that you can't keep everyone as long as we replace those guys with close to or as good performers I can accept losing people. You seem to think we can just pay everyone what they want. Moving O linemen to different positions could work but I feel like keeping people on their positions and getting a good gaurd to replace a gaurd we lost is a better idea. I get your frustration because I love the ravens too but players have to go out there and play too so you can't put it all on ozzie
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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You can only do so much you can't be good everywhere the players still have to go out and play. Ozzie does his best to put a winning team out there so if a kicker doesn't make a fg or a WR doesn't make a catch he can't help that. Most of our playoff losses come from plays that good veteran players screw up. I'm not saying it is a good thing to lose Grubbs but because we know that you can't keep everyone as long as we replace those guys with close to or as good performers I can accept losing people. You seem to think we can just pay everyone what they want. Moving O linemen to different positions could work but I feel like keeping people on their positions and getting a good gaurd to replace a gaurd we lost is a better idea. I get your frustration because I love the ravens too but players have to go out there and play too so you can't put it all on ozzie
I understand that, but it's a matter of him putting the wrong players out there. Tell me which of these offensive lines looks better to you.

Oher - Grubbs - C - Yanda - Reid

McKinnie - Mathis - C - Yanda - Oher

In my opinion, the first one is MUCH stronger then the second one and based on everything I've seen from the cap numbers, it wasn't insurmountable to keep Grubbs if McKinnie was let go. I have no idea what the FO was thinking here, but it's a very poor decision and I have little doubt that our offensive line, and by extension our offense, is going to struggle heavily next season. Disagree if you like, but there's no way I can see that losing Grubbs affects our franchise in a positive light. It's even worse that we could have retained him and didn't. I also don't understand our fascination with McKinnie, but I saw every Ravens game last year and he was so underwhelming. What exactly has he done lately to earn a $4.5 million dollar cap hit? He's ******* useless.

I'm coming across as extremely cynical, but apart from a few cases I generally strive to trust in Ozzie and believe that the Ravens do have a strong organizational structure that is capable of putting together a winning product. I just don't think that's the case anymore. We aren't finding the mid-round studs like we used to, we aren't retaining our own key players like we used to, and we aren't making the right coaching staff decisions like we used to. Face it, once Ray and Ed leave this franchise is going to crash hard.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Someone has to stay critical or we'd all be duped into believing we have the best FO in the NFL, which clearly isn't the case.
Uncovering the truth and exposing management for the frauds they are!!! Your ideas may not be accepted by the masses initially but the truth must be heard!!!!! Your martyrdom will not go unnoticed.

...

You made one of the dumbest comments I've read on this forum in a while when you actually believed you could run an NFL franchise and run it better than the 'absolute morons' who run them now. Some of the things you've said since, especially about the Ravens, just confirm how out of touch you are with reality and common sense.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
A Perfect Score
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Uncovering the truth and exposing management for the frauds they are!!! Your ideas may not be accepted by the masses initially but the truth must be heard!!!!! Your martyrdom will not go unnoticed.

...

You made one of the dumbest comments I've read on this forum in a while when you actually believed you could run an NFL franchise and run it better than the 'absolute morons' who run them now. Some of the things you've said since, especially about the Ravens, just confirm how out of touch you are with reality and common sense.
Yes, because your blind acceptance and celebration of every move made by the organization represents a much stronger tie to reality and common sense :/

And yeah, I honestly think I could do a better job of running an NFL franchise then some of the people in charge now. In fact, there's alot of posters on this board I'd trust to run my franchise (if I had one) over many of the people in charge now. Try finding someone on these boards not named Thumper who didn't know the Kevin Kolb trade was a bad one. Or find someone around here willing to give a 1st and 2nd round pick for a washed up QB who hasn't played football in a year and half. These are the kinds of "absolute morons" who make terrible decisions and who yeah, I have no qualms about saying I would do a better job of running a franchise then they would. I wasn't speaking about the Ravens when I made that comment, despite my recent dissatisfaction with their moves.
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