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Old 03-08-2010, 02:42 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Questionable secondary (4th most passing TDs allowed last year), no offensive line, questionable running game and no real talent at receiver. So a big no. It could change with some offensive signings, good drafting and a year or two, but for now they're still relatively in rebuild mode. Peppers will help the pass and run defense tremendously, but they're not fixing the protection and production of the offense in any way so far.
Wait what? we have talent, just no proven commodity. the rest is true.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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We're not going anywhere until the O line is fixed, we get one good target for Cutler, and a free safety who can cover.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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I can't wait to see the Martz Offense with no O-line.

And with no high draft picks and no quality OL free agents, I don't really see how that's going to change.

They'll compete, for sure, but I doubt they make the playoffs.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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Contenders for their division maybe, but not for the SB. They're still behind Minnesota, and probably Green Bay. They need to prove they've improved on the field, as we all know from Washington's offseasons that winning FA means jack squat. The 'Skins added an even more dominant DL in Haynesworth last offseason, and that didn't translate into a Playoff birth. Plus, they still have a few holes left to fill, and their first pick isn't until the...3rd RD?

I dunno. Chicago just feels like an easily combustable situation to me, especially with Cutler at the helm.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:19 AM    (permalink
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hereeeeee we go brownies hereeeee we go
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Sure. On the other hand, it seems like there has almost been an overreaction that these moves were somehow bad on this board.

I mean, the post above you said "they might be better." They MIGHT be? We added arguably the best defensive player in the NFL, and will have Urlacher back, and we MIGHT be better?

All I'm saying is that if, say, the Eagles signed Peppers, there would be a lot more positivity to the move. It seems like the dissapointing season by Cutler last year has created an entire aura of negativity about the Bears, both among their fans and outside, that I honestly don't get.
The question really lies on Cutler more than anything. I think the Chester Taylor signing will be the biggest boost to the Bears. That guy can still play some ball, and Peterson just preserved his legs and gave him a couple of seasons off to be ready to get back to his old 1200+ yard self. I think this is the key here, because it will help Cutler by having a big threat on the ground teams have to be mindful of. But it's going to take a lot of development of your young receivers to really take the next step.

I don't think bringing in Peppers is going to be all that big of a boost to your defense. I think he helps, but I'm not sold on the fact that he's the final piece on that defense. Urlacher coming back will be a bigger impact.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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They need to get an OL before they can compete for anything.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Sure. On the other hand, it seems like there has almost been an overreaction that these moves were somehow bad on this board.

I mean, the post above you said "they might be better." They MIGHT be? We added arguably the best defensive player in the NFL, and will have Urlacher back, and we MIGHT be better?

All I'm saying is that if, say, the Eagles signed Peppers, there would be a lot more positivity to the move. It seems like the dissapointing season by Cutler last year has created an entire aura of negativity about the Bears, both among their fans and outside, that I honestly don't get.
Because the Bears have more holes then the Eagles and a Peppers signing is a type of signing that should put you over the top of the other teams and a SB type of signing. Sadly, the Bears are not a SB team.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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If the Bears had an offensive line, secondary and OC who wasn't Mike Martz I'd feel a lot better about the Bears' chances in the NFC North.

BTW WTF is it with Bears fans over-rating Peppers now that they signed him? Ware, Allen, Haynesworth, Kevin Williams, Charles Woodson, Revis, Aso, Troy P, there are a hell of a lot of better defensive players, not necessarily many more talented players but there are certainly many better and more productive players than Peppers.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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When a team signs an expensive free agent I don't count on said free agent being as good as the contract says he will or even close. I'll wait 8 games or so minimum before I start calling it a success/failure. Perfect example is on the same team. Cutler came in young, talented, experienced, and successful, and then he threw more interceptions than anyone in the league.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:50 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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so u say the Cutler trade was already a failure?
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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When a team signs an expensive free agent I don't count on said free agent being as good as the contract says he will or even close. I'll wait 8 games or so minimum before I start calling it a success/failure. Perfect example is on the same team. Cutler came in young, talented, experienced, and successful, and then he threw more interceptions than anyone in the league.
8 games that's it? Wow, why that long? Why not give him 2 games?
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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I loved woodson this year, hes just a bit old which is why he didnt just spring to mind. And again, I agree peppers is talented, but thats not his problem.
I'll give you a better reason why he should 'spring to mind.' 2009 Defensive Player of the Year.

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Contenders for their division maybe, but not for the SB. They're still behind Minnesota, and probably Green Bay.
I don't get how it's just probably and not definitely. If anything, it should be reversed. They're still behind Green Bay and probably Minnesota. Remember, they beat Minnesota last year. Maybe I'm a little defensive about Green Bay, but so be it.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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I'll give you a better reason why he should 'spring to mind.' 2009 Defensive Player of the Year.

I don't see how someone wouldn't think of the DPOY when they think of the best defensive players lol.

I don't get how it's just probably and not definitely. If anything, it should be reversed. They're still behind Green Bay and probably Minnesota. Remember, they beat Minnesota last year. Maybe I'm a little defensive about Green Bay, but so be it.

Either way they are both clearly better than the bum bears.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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The Bears offensive line played much better once Orlando Pace went down for the count. Chris Williams should come into his own in this offense, his strength is his pass pro.

Their receivers aren't world breakers, but lack of talent isn't the problem, it's lack of experience. They will probably add another reciever in the draft and let the group define itself. Mike Martz will find ways to use the speed of the group.

You seem to forget that with all of their defensive woes, a horrible run game, and no pass protection or wide recievers and this team still cracked out 7 wins. Without Jay we win 2 maybe 3? Martz will be the kind of teacher and demanding personality that Cutler needs to be successful.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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8 games that's it? Wow, why that long? Why not give him 2 games?
I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. How long does it take you to assess a rookie? Learning the new scheme, seeing how he plays with different players around him, motivation factor after the new contract, there are lots of changes. Some free agents come in and explode in the first couple games then barely do anything. Others fade into obscurity and then break out in the second half of the season. Around 8 games is usually when I can tell if a free agent is a winner in his new home.

Examples:

Jared Allen, 2008. Best example of the 8 game theory. Through 5 games, he had 2 sacks and 9 tackles. Not very good considering expectations. Through 9 games, 8 sacks, 21 tackles, 2 safeties, 2 FF. Huge difference. After 5 games he looks like a bust. But you'd be a fool to make your decision that quick. Through 9 games now he's a pro bowler.

Jay Cutler. After 16 games I still haven't decided if he should be replaced or if he's a franchise quarterback that needs help. Sure he did great in Denver with Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clady and a great running game. Derek Anderson had a similar season a few years ago and where is he now? That signing (trade) and Cutler are still up in the air.

Aaron Kampman, 2009. He wasn't a free agent signing but it's like he was since he was playing a new position in a new defense with a new coordinator. He's a Packer, I watched him very closely, it was around game 6 or 7 that I decided he couldn't ever play OLB. He was improving, he was getting pressures on the quarterback, but after seeing him unable to close the distance on different quarterbacks enough times and screen passes to his side go for big gains - our D Coord didn't have an answer for it - then I gave up.

Alen Faneca, 2008. IMO didn't look like he helped that line much through the first year or so, looked like a bad signing, but now the Jets have a dominant OL and they are happy they got him.

So I guess it's somewhere between halfway through their first season and a bit into their second season that I start making judgments. Opinions change of course, but thats where the baseline, expectations get set.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. How long does it take you to assess a rookie? Learning the new scheme, seeing how he plays with different players around him, motivation factor after the new contract, there are lots of changes. Some free agents come in and explode in the first couple games then barely do anything. Others fade into obscurity and then break out in the second half of the season. Around 8 games is usually when I can tell if a free agent is a winner in his new home.

Examples:

Jared Allen, 2008. Best example of the 8 game theory. Through 5 games, he had 2 sacks and 9 tackles. Not very good considering expectations. Through 9 games, 8 sacks, 21 tackles, 2 safeties, 2 FF. Huge difference. After 5 games he looks like a bust. But you'd be a fool to make your decision that quick. Through 9 games now he's a pro bowler.

Jay Cutler. After 16 games I still haven't decided if he should be replaced or if he's a franchise quarterback that needs help. Sure he did great in Denver with Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clady and a great running game. Derek Anderson had a similar season a few years ago and where is he now? That signing (trade) and Cutler are still up in the air.

Aaron Kampman, 2009. He wasn't a free agent signing but it's like he was since he was playing a new position in a new defense with a new coordinator. He's a Packer, I watched him very closely, it was around game 6 or 7 that I decided he couldn't ever play OLB. He was improving, he was getting pressures on the quarterback, but after seeing him unable to close the distance on different quarterbacks enough times and screen passes to his side go for big gains - our D Coord didn't have an answer for it - then I gave up.

Alen Faneca, 2008. IMO didn't look like he helped that line much through the first year or so, looked like a bad signing, but now the Jets have a domimant OL and they are happy they got him.

So I guess it's somewhere between halfway through their first season and a bit into their second season that I start making judgements.

Hehe I was being sarcastic, it should take a lot longer than 8 games to see if a player works in a system. Then you have to see if your franchise can make adjustments in their personnel to surround that player, in this case Cutler, with the right pieces. Finally are they using him the right way, which allowed him to be successful in the first place, in Denver? Or is it a square peg, round hole sorta deal? That's why it takes couple years to evaluate players like this. This applies to rookies, GMs and even coaches. That's why football fans need patience.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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It's the Packers' division to lose if Favre doesn't come back.

If he does come back, then its going to be a dog fight between the Vikings and Packers.


Being more talented doesn't always equate to more wins. The Bears will be more talented for sure this upcoming year, but so will their division rivals (minus the Vikings perhaps if Favre doesn't come back, but let's face it, we all know he's coming back).

If I'm a Bears fan, I personally hope that they don't do well this year. All that means is Lovie sticks around for another year, as does Martz. I don't think the duo of Lovie and Martz is the answer this team needs. They need to rebuild from the ground up and try something new.

They need a whole new secondary, some linebackers (Briggs is the only 1 worth a damn at this point), and depending on how some young guys develop next year, maybe some dlinemen.

To go along with a new oline and maybe a WR. That's not something you can fix in just a year.

They may do well record wise this year, but that doesn't mean anything to me bc I could see them following it up with a down year again. I think when teams overachieve like that, they hurt themselves more in the long term that way, because the necessary changes get prolonged.

You want to be an ascending team, and I see the Bears as a team that's going to have to rebuild whether they do well this coming year or not.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Tempted to lock this thread because the question is so ridiculous.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Cowher in 2011, BABY!!!
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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It's the Packers' division to lose if Favre doesn't come back.
Even if he does, does he have another year in him? The man obviously proved he shows up every Sunday, pain or not, but he'll be 40 (or 39?) and if sports taught us anything it's that streaks end and sports hurt. Can his shoulder, knees, back, stay together for another year? After about 300 games those joints, tendons, bones have taken a beating and they are certainly not as strong as they were 10 years ago. Mentally, what happens if they lose a couple games and aren't at the top like they were all of last year? That is a situation where I can see Brett throwing 3 interceptions a game like the one against the Saints because he's trying too hard, especially knowing it's his last season.

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They need a whole new secondary, some linebackers (Briggs is the only 1 worth a damn at this point), and depending on how some young guys develop next year, maybe some dlinemen.
Is Urlacher really that much of a scrub now? I've considered Briggs their best LB for a few years now but I thought Urlacher was at least a positive for their defense.

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Tempted to lock this thread because the question is so ridiculous.
Ehh, no one took the original post seriously, and posted about things only semi related to the question, but there's more quality discussion here than a lot of threads, like: "Jets trade for Rolle" followed by 10 posts saying "why didn't my team do that", 10 posts simply stating "I like it" and a couple posts saying "Rolle sucks".
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Even if he does, does he have another year in him? The man obviously proved he shows up every Sunday, pain or not, but he'll be 40 (or 39?) and if sports taught us anything it's that streaks end and sports hurt. Can his shoulder, knees, back, stay together for another year? After about 300 games those joints, tendons, bones have taken a beating and they are certainly not as strong as they were 10 years ago. Mentally, what happens if they lose a couple games and aren't at the top like they were all of last year? That is a situation where I can see Brett throwing 3 interceptions a game like the one against the Saints because he's trying too hard, especially knowing it's his last season.


Is Urlacher really that much of a scrub now? I've considered Briggs their best LB for a few years now but I thought Urlacher was at least a positive for their defense.


Ehh, no one took the original post seriously, and posted about things only semi related to the question, but there's more quality discussion here than a lot of threads, like: "Jets trade for Rolle" followed by 10 posts saying "why didn't my team do that", 10 posts simply stating "I like it" and a couple posts saying "Rolle sucks".
I don't know if Urlacher can be trusted to stay healthy anymore. He's actually been pretty injury prone throughout his career outside a 3 year stretch where he was dominant.

He may hold up for a year, but then what happens next year? Can you put all your eggs in his basket anymore? I don't think you can.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Tempted to lock this thread because the question is so ridiculous.
Why is it ridiculus to ask if a team that makes such obvious "win now or else" moves such as signing a Pro Bowl DE and a Pro Bowl QB could possibly deliver on their promises of a championship?
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Why is it ridiculus to ask if a team that makes such obvious "win now or else" moves such as signing a Pro Bowl DE and a Pro Bowl QB could possibly deliver on their promises of a championship?
because we still ******* suck ass. im scared of being beaten by the lions
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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because we still ******* suck ass. im scared of being beaten by the lions
Jay Cutler has the potential to be a top 5 QB in the league... all he needs is one more legit WR (Aromashadu and Olsen are already solid), an improved O-Line, and Mike Martz to work some magic, and they are putting up like 30+ points a game.

The defense can't possibly be worse than it was last year because they get back Urlacher and they now have Peppers. It will probably at least be above-average, and potentially very good.
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