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Old 03-24-2010, 06:57 PM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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That would be quite the trade and I honestly think it would be a very fair deal for both teams.

The Eagles get the very first pick of the 2nd round, and in this years draft, that is basically an extra first rounder with how talented and deep this one is, and an above average safety who's been one of the few good Rams defenders of late. Plus you have Kolb to go into the future with.

And the Rams get a QB who could still give them 3-5 quality seasons possibly, and would make them a contender in the up-for-grabs-as-far-as-I'm-concerned NFC West even with all their other weaknesses, along with Suh who they could then take #1 overall having their QB already.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Boy, if the Rams get Suh, that line would instantly be very solid. Suh's the kind of guy whose very presence could easily turn Chris Long into a 12 sack/year monster.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
Boy, if the Rams get Suh, that line would instantly be very solid. Suh's the kind of guy whose very presence could easily turn Chris Long into a 12 sack/year monster.
Plus they'd have a veteran QB on top of it who would likely do far better than a rookie. This would be a win-win for the Rams and like I said in my last post, could be enough to make them a contender in the NFC West.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I thought people were done with the Romo crumbling late in the season crap. How quickly everyone forgets how well he played late in the season without TO returning which everyone said would make him 10x worse.


I guess if he doesn't win the SB then he is a failure and a choker and late season collapse no matter what lol. He played as good as you could ask in December, in some huge games. Just because Minnesota's defensive line destroyed us completely doesn't mean Romo is a choker.


But hey, why make up new jokes when the old ones are so easy to constantly use even if they aren't relevant anymore.
McNabb plays great during the regular season but has had his fair share of bad postseason games, and he still hasn't been able to shake the label of "choker".

Until Romo plays better in post-season games, people are going to remember:

2006: Seahawks game, botched snap
2007: Losing to the Giants they beat twice in the regular season
2008: 44-6 to the Eagles, Tony Romo looks awful, fumbles and throws picks
2009: 34-3 to the Vikings, Tony Romo looks awful, fumbles and throws picks.

You are what your record says you are. Until a Cowboys season ends without Romo playing poorly in a post-season game, he's going to be known as a late-season choker.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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McNabb plays great during the regular season but has had his fair share of bad postseason games, and he still hasn't been able to shake the label of "choker".

Until Romo plays better in post-season games, people are going to remember:

2006: Seahawks game, botched snap
2007: Losing to the Giants they beat twice in the regular season
2008: 44-6 to the Eagles, Tony Romo looks awful, fumbles and throws picks
2009: 34-3 to the Vikings, Tony Romo looks awful, fumbles and throws picks.

You are what your record says you are. Until a Cowboys season ends without Romo playing poorly in a post-season game, he's going to be known as a late-season choker.
By that logic Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are chokers. I don't think Warren Moon ever made it past the divisional round of the playoffs. No one ever talks about those guys as chokers though. And Romo played pretty well in his first playoff game against the Seahawks. It's just the botched snap that screwed him over...but he did play well in the contest...and he lost. So then the choker talk should end there.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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By that logic Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are chokers. I don't think Warren Moon ever made it past the divisional round of the playoffs. No one ever talks about those guys as chokers though. And Romo played pretty well in his first playoff game against the Seahawks. It's just the botched snap that screwed him over...but he did play well in the contest...and he lost. So then the choker talk should end there.
Yes. Because playing well for part of the game but messing things up epically when it matters most doesn't qualify as choking...

He has choked in the past, there is no way around that, McNabb and Romo are both chokers. End of story, Romo was the bigger choker in 2008 and McNabb was the bigger choker in 2009.

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Old 03-24-2010, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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True, but our head coach openly admits that Garrard is painfully average to the national media. Without a great team around him, he can't even make it far enough to choke down the stretch.

And he'll be replaced in the next year or two, which gives us some light at the end of the tunnel.
Garrard is alright. Maybe his talks with Peyton this offseason will help him spend more time watching tape and becoming more of a cerebral player.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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I really think Oakland needs to make a play for McNabb. If they had a legit QB they'd actually have a team that could compete in a pretty weak AFC West.
According to reports, he won’t play there or in Buffalo.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Yeah McNabb is fine with going to the Rams because AJ Feely is there, he has worked with Spags in the past and his old QB coach Pat Shurmer is the offensive coordinator.

But reports say that he doesn't want to play in Oakland or in Buffalo.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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That would be quite the trade and I honestly think it would be a very fair deal for both teams.

The Eagles get the very first pick of the 2nd round, and in this years draft, that is basically an extra first rounder with how talented and deep this one is, and an above average safety who's been one of the few good Rams defenders of late. Plus you have Kolb to go into the future with.

And the Rams get a QB who could still give them 3-5 quality seasons possibly, and would make them a contender in the up-for-grabs-as-far-as-I'm-concerned NFC West even with all their other weaknesses, along with Suh who they could then take #1 overall having their QB already.


Yeaa, not buying that.


The Rams are far away from being a contender then just a QB, and considering how McNabb looked when the pressure was on with the Eagles last year and that group of WR's + Celek + that defense you think he'd be able to do something with the core the Rams have?


Not only that, but they would be trading away one of their limited good players in Atogwe. They have no WR's, no TE, a suspect offensive line, hell their still in rebuilding phase and let's just say McNabb does take them to the playoffs a year or 2 for arguments sake, then what?


Their not going to win the SB, and that #33 pick could go a long way between being a building block for the future. They would be much better trading OJ for picks, keeping all theirs, and continue to rebuild. They don't have enough players to get a veteran QB and give away early picks.


It would be brilliant for the Eagles and silly of the Rams to do. You don't make that kind of trade unless McNabb is the 1 piece keeping you from being a SB contender. Rams are in full rebuild mode and won 2 games. McNabb doesn't make them go from 2 games to a playoff team, no way in hell.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeaa, not buying that.


The Rams are far away from being a contender then just a QB, and considering how McNabb looked when the pressure was on with the Eagles last year and that group of WR's + Celek + that defense you think he'd be able to do something with the core the Rams have?
They aren't that far away from contending in the West. And if a team like Arizona who went 8-8 two years ago can make a run all the way to the Superbowl. I say anything can happen once you get to the playoffs.


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Not only that, but they would be trading away one of their limited good players in Atogwe. They have no WR's, no TE, a suspect offensive line, hell their still in rebuilding phase and let's just say McNabb does take them to the playoffs a year or 2 for arguments sake, then what?
Then they will have had more success in the short term then they would have had they not traded for McNabb... *shrugs*

P.S No WR's and No TE's hasn't affected McNabb in the past. He still got it done long before T.O waltzed into town.

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Their not going to win the SB, and that #33 pick could go a long way between being a building block for the future. They would be much better trading OJ for picks, keeping all theirs, and continue to rebuild. They don't have enough players to get a veteran QB and give away early picks.
If they are looking at drafting Bradford #1 overall. They are basically HOPING he succeeds. He's no guarantee. So they could be possibly in a bigger hole with Bradford then they would with McNabb. Now the only downside to this trade is losing Atogwe. Which is why I think a fair trade is swapping picks in the second round.

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It would be brilliant for the Eagles and silly of the Rams to do. You don't make that kind of trade unless McNabb is the 1 piece keeping you from being a SB contender. Rams are in full rebuild mode and won 2 games. McNabb doesn't make them go from 2 games to a playoff team, no way in hell.
You can also make that trade when you have endured years of something even worse then mediocrity. The city needs something too. That roster needs a winner as well. And that's what McNabb is.

I'm for the trade regardless. I just think it could be a little fairer for the Rams if it was a swap of picks in the second round.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Yeah McNabb is fine with going to the Rams because AJ Feely is there, he has worked with Spags in the past and his old QB coach Pat Shurmer is the offensive coordinator.
And.

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Old 03-24-2010, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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rams trade for mcnabb and sign TO
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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They aren't that far away from contending in the West. And if a team like Arizona who went 8-8 two years ago can make a run all the way to the Superbowl. I say anything can happen once you get to the playoffs.

Arizona won 8 games, STL won 2. Also, compare the players that AZ team had two years ago; Fitz, Boldin, Dansby, Breaston, Rolle, DRC, Dockett, Berry. That team was talented. Who does STL have when they trade OJ? Steven Jackson..........? That team won 2 games for a reason and they have been in the top 2 of the draft for the past 3 seasons, that's a FAR cry from a team who had won 8 and 9 games and was already on the verge of going someplace.


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Then they will have had more success in the short term then they would have had they not traded for McNabb... *shrugs*

Cool. Success. What's that mean? Winning 8 games instead of 4? 7 instead of 3? McNabb isn't going to carry that team on his back to a Super Bowl, and the #33 overall pick, + trading Atogwe for picks straight up would be much better suited for a team obviously in rebuild mode. It makes no sense to trade early picks to win a few more meaningless games.


You think the Raiders are happy winning 5 games last year and losing a 1st round pick to get Seymour, or winning 3-4 games and keeping that 1st? I know a QB makes a much bigger impact but it's the same rationale. If said player isn't going to put you over the top it's pointless to trade a 1st or early 2nd round pick.


Brett Favre put the Vikes over the top. They had a talented team and were just missing a QB. The Rams are poised to win at max 4 games next year, McNabb may win a few more. Is that worth giving the Eagles a very solid FS and the #33 pick who could be with the team 10 years and help not only short term but long term? I think not.


Quote:
P.S No WR's and No TE's hasn't affected McNabb in the past. He still got it done long before T.O waltzed into town.

And the Eagles haven't ever been as bad as the Rams either. That was also McNabb in his prime, while he may not be far from that level of play the Rams certainly aren't getting McNabb from that era.




Quote:
If they are looking at drafting Bradford #1 overall. They are basically HOPING he succeeds. He's no guarantee. So they could be possibly in a bigger hole with Bradford then they would with McNabb. Now the only downside to this trade is losing Atogwe. Which is why I think a fair trade is swapping picks in the second round.

You could say this every time a team drafts a QB. Thing is, Bradford is a franchise QB that will be with the team for 10+ years if he succeeds. Of course they are going to HOPE, the Lioins HOPED Stafford would be good, the Jets HOPED Sanchez would be good, same for the Falcons, no draft pick is an exact science. But eventually you have to draft a franchise QB, and if your confident with what you see from Bradford you take him.


Unless you think their going to be trading for veteran QB's every few years. They wouldn't be ready to compete until Bradford is a few years in at least anyway, at which McNabb is ready to fall off dramatically. He's not doing them anything these next few years except making them pick higher in the draft and maybe keep a few people their job.



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You can also make that trade when you have endured years of something even worse then mediocrity. The city needs something too. That roster needs a winner as well. And that's what McNabb is.



No, that city needs a franchise signal caller. That's what these past few teams who have been terrible have done and it gave them hope for the future. All of a sudden the Lions and Falcons franchise' aren't so sad anymore because whatever happens they have Stafford and Ryan to build around long term, and the Rams are just as bad as those teams were at the time they took a QB.


The Rams are picking #1 overall for a reason, and it's not because they are a QB away from making a serious run. Unless McNabb is going to seriously make you a SB contender, trading a very solid player and a late 1st outright is just pointless to me.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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You'd be shocked how much better a team can look with competent QB play. Suddenly the terrible pass protection looks mediocre, and the passing game gets a jolt, and Steven Jackson doesn't get swarmed on every play.

McNabb+Suh>>>Bradford and all the other picks that they will likely whiff on.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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I really doubt the Rams do it (Likely to fall in love with Bradford - and for good reason), but I definitely think they could win the division if they added McNabb.

The Dolphins, Saints, Falcons, etc. are all better examples than the Cards. Sometimes you add a player here and a player there and the ball starts bouncing your way more. And QB is by far the most important position on the field so upgrading there could mean a huge difference.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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You'd be shocked how much better a team can look with competent QB play. Suddenly the terrible pass protection looks mediocre, and the passing game gets a jolt, and Steven Jackson doesn't get swarmed on every play.

McNabb+Suh>>>Bradford and all the other picks that they will likely whiff on.
And remember that Suh will instantly make everyone around him on the D-Line (like Chris Long) better. Which will in turn make the secondary better simply by virtue of being forced to cover for a shorter period of time. Which in turn will make their defense half-decent.

If they don't grab Suh, their defense will have no hope of climbing up from out of the depths of terribleness next year.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Even the Falcons needed along with Turner, Roddy White to turn into a bonafide #1 WR to help their cause. The Dolphins have been playing great defense and still had the element of the wildcat working in their favor.


I'm not saying McNabb won't help, he surely will. But I don't think being on the brink of making the playoffs for a few years is enough to pass up a franchise QB for personally. I feel like this Bradford/Suh debate is eerily similiar to Ryan/Dorsey for Atlanta that year.



I'm not even in love with Bradford as a QB prospect, but if you think he's a franchise guy, no way I pass him up, even for Suh and a few good years out of McNabb.


I agree with the comment of if the Raiders were to do this, more logical for me. As dysfunctional as they are they beat some playoff teams last year, and their defense is already a strong group. The Rams just have way too many missing pieces IMO to pass up a legit chance at a franchise QB for the next 10 years.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Too bad trading within the division is so rare, I'd give Hasselbeck for Atogwe straight up and laugh at the Rams for being so dumb.

I wouldn't give up Atogwe OR the #33 for McNabb, too much for a 33 year old injury prone QB.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Even the Falcons needed along with Turner, Roddy White to turn into a bonafide #1 WR to help their cause. The Dolphins have been playing great defense and still had the element of the wildcat working in their favor.


I'm not saying McNabb won't help, he surely will. But I don't think being on the brink of making the playoffs for a few years is enough to pass up a franchise QB for personally. I feel like this Bradford/Suh debate is eerily similiar to Ryan/Dorsey for Atlanta that year.



I'm not even in love with Bradford as a QB prospect, but if you think he's a franchise guy, no way I pass him up, even for Suh and a few good years out of McNabb.


I agree with the comment of if the Raiders were to do this, more logical for me. As dysfunctional as they are they beat some playoff teams last year, and their defense is already a strong group. The Rams just have way too many missing pieces IMO to pass up a legit chance at a franchise QB for the next 10 years.
Why do you think a "franchise QB" has to necessarily be the #1 overall pick? I personally believe that is flawed thinking.

The Rams honestly have nothing to lose. They play the NFC West, which got significantly weaker over the offseason. Cardinals will not be a tough opponent anymore until they can get their QB situation figured out. Seattle has an awkward situation going on with their whole team. I, personally, dont believe it will be a contender for some years. The 49ers are looking extremely strong, but you never know which Alex Smith you will get.

If the Rams add McNabb and Suh, I think they are contending for their division title or possibly a wildcard spot. During that time, much like the Eagles used McNabb, a QB could be drafted this year and they could start the grooming process. Maybe a 3rd round pick guy that they really like. We have no clue what is going through the minds of the Rams, and I definitely think this is in the realm of possibility.

I dont know the stat off the top of my head, but I know they've put a VERY large amount of money into their offensive line over the last couple of seasons. They have a top tier RB and some young, budding WR's in the likes of Donnie Avery. Yes, I know I just hyped them up, but they definitely have some talented players to work with.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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How was the crumbling this year vs. the Saints and Eagles? ;)
remember that one seahawk play off game?

and the game to get yourselves in the play offs last year?

those were good games.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but If the Rams traded for McNabb or Vick, or really anyone who can come in-I think it would be a better move than taking Bradford. McNabb is seasoned and would be inserted into the starting role from day 1 without any ? marks. They can target another area with their #1 pick, and could wait a few years to draft a Franchise QB with possibly less of a risk than Bradford poses. Let's face it, Stafford didn't have any durability concerns like Bradford, and also played in a more pro-conventional offense. I think this would be a better move for the Rams, and someone like Suh could help the D-Line tremendously.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I think people are overrating OJ Atogwe. He's an average NFL Safety at best, not even top 15 IMO. Horrible in coverage, Horrible tackler, good ballhawk.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I think people are overrating OJ Atogwe. He's an average NFL Safety at best, not even top 15 IMO. Horrible in coverage, Horrible tackler, good ballhawk.
ProFootballFocus.com seems to disagree with the tackling portion of your post.

http://profootballfocus.com/articles...es&arc=&id=135
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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I think people are overrating OJ Atogwe. He's an average NFL Safety at best, not even top 15 IMO. Horrible in coverage, Horrible tackler, good ballhawk.
Madden may have be a factor in that.
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