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Old 03-18-2010, 12:11 PM    (permalink
Addict
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
Did you read consensus as discussion or something? Because his post is pretty much entirely true. For like 5 years it was ALWAYS Manning and Brady as 1a and 1b. Since Brady's knee injury its been Peyton 1 and then a bunch of other people like Rivers, Brees, Brady and Rodgers in behind him since Brady has come back recovering from his injury. Manning has really only been considered the general consensus best QB in the league since Brady got injured, like he was saying.
For a guy critisizing my reading skills you're not doing such a dandy job yourself. The discussion was never about who was the best QB in general, that was always Manning. What the Brady camp (or at least, what I in my defense of Brady) always said was that even though Manning had all the numbers and all the talent in the regular season, we would prefer Tom Brady solely based on the fact that the guy is more reliable a winner in the postseason. And that discussion will rage on since in my book, Manning still hasn't won a superbowl he didn't ride his defense into.

Oh and thanks the underlining the word 'consensus', I really wouldn't have cought it unless you underlined it. Next time, please bold it too, so it'll get through my thick monkey brain even faster, you condescending ass.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
He rebounded last year, that was pretty much Tom Brady's career average year.
Anyone who saw Tom Brady last year knows he wasn't the Tom Brady of old. Career averages can be thrown out since he has Welker and Moss to throw the ball to instead of David Patten and Troy Brown.

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Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
Drew Brees.

/endthread
Wow. I fail. I totally forgot about him. How does that even happen? I'd slot him right behind Peyton Manning. Wow. Can't believe his name didn't even enter my mind. Unbelievable.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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For a guy critisizing my reading skills you're not doing such a dandy job yourself. The discussion was never about who was the best QB in general, that was always Manning. What the Brady camp (or at least, what I in my defense of Brady) always said was that even though Manning had all the numbers and all the talent in the regular season, we would prefer Tom Brady solely based on the fact that the guy is more reliable a winner in the postseason. And that discussion will rage on since in my book, Manning still hasn't won a superbowl he didn't ride his defense into.

Oh and thanks the underlining the word 'consensus', I really wouldn't have cought it unless you underlined it. Next time, please bold it too, so it'll get through my thick monkey brain even faster, you condescending ass.
Lol, then how is that an argument for Tom Brady?

I think we can all agree that Drew Brees is the greatest thing ever.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Lol, then how is that an argument for Tom Brady?

I think we can all agree that Drew Brees is the greatest thing ever.
if Drew keeps up playing like he did past season he's more than worthy of an MVP award.

I'm gonna pretend you didn't write that other part because if you won't bother reading my entire post and focus on one phrase instead, so will I.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Coming out party, eh? That explains the 'stache.

Are you insinuating that staches "cool"? I think great men like Ron Burgandy, Chuck Norris, and Tom Selleck along with Rodgers may have something to say about that
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Addict View Post
For a guy critisizing my reading skills you're not doing such a dandy job yourself. The discussion was never about who was the best QB in general, that was always Manning. What the Brady camp (or at least, what I in my defense of Brady) always said was that even though Manning had all the numbers and all the talent in the regular season, we would prefer Tom Brady solely based on the fact that the guy is more reliable a winner in the postseason. And that discussion will rage on since in my book, Manning still hasn't won a superbowl he didn't ride his defense into.

Oh and thanks the underlining the word 'consensus', I really wouldn't have cought it unless you underlined it. Next time, please bold it too, so it'll get through my thick monkey brain even faster, you condescending ass.
You do realize that Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl that he didn't ride his defense into either, right? By the way, I find it interesting that Manning rode the lowest ranked scoring defense to ever win a Super Bowl to the Super Bowl he won.

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Anyone who saw Tom Brady last year knows he wasn't the Tom Brady of old. Career averages can be thrown out since he has Welker and Moss to throw the ball to instead of David Patten and Troy Brown.
I saw Brady last year, that was the Tom Brady of old. What it wasn't was the Tom Brady who typically had 5-6 seconds to throw for the vast majority of the 2007 season.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl that he didn't ride his defense into either, right? By the way, I find it interesting that Manning rode the lowest ranked scoring defense to ever win a Super Bowl to the Super Bowl he won.
Peyton's offense was much better so he didn't need the D to score. Seriously it wasn't a knock on the guy, I basically said he's the better QB what the hell more do you want? All I said is that Brady took worse teams than Manning to the playoffs and won Superbowls with them.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl that he didn't ride his defense into either, right? By the way, I find it interesting that Manning rode the lowest ranked scoring defense to ever win a Super Bowl to the Super Bowl he won.



I saw Brady last year, that was the Tom Brady of old. What it wasn't was the Tom Brady who typically had 5-6 seconds to throw for the vast majority of the 2007 season.
Peyton did get carried big during the playoffs, the year he won the superbowl. I don't think he had one good game during the playoffs (lol he even sucked against the chiefs). I know he got superbowl MVP ( which he didn't deserve) , he played almost as bad as JaMarcus Russell.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Peyton did get carried big during the playoffs, the year he won the superbowl. I don't think he had one good game during the playoffs (lol he even sucked against the chiefs). I know he got superbowl MVP ( which he didn't deserve) , he played almost as bad as JaMarcus Russell.
If you honestly think that, especially the last part, you need to A) rewatch the game and B) understand basic concepts of football such as "take what the defense gives you" and slightly more advanced concepts such as why running the ball against a 2 deep zone usually produces a successful result.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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If you honestly think that, especially the last part, you need to A) rewatch the game and B) understand basic concepts of football such as "take what the defense gives you" and slightly more advanced concepts such as why running the ball against a 2 deep zone usually produces a successful result.
Um he threw 2 ints against the ravens, 3 ints against the chiefs lmao, 1 in against the pats and 1 against the bears. He only threw 3 TDs in 4 games Peyton manning is amazing. Amazing choke artist that is.....

Peyton= Godly regular season QB
Peyton= Playoff Choke Most of the time
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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This isn't about Peyton! Let it to be about Aaron Rodgers.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Um he threw 2 ints against the ravens, 3 ints against the chiefs lmao, 1 in against the pats and 1 against the bears. He only threw 3 TDs in 4 games Peyton manning is amazing. Amazing choke artist that is.....

Peyton= Godly regular season QB
Peyton= Playoff Choke Most of the time
I like this guy.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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I like this guy.
yes the strong statements lead you to believe he's just screaming things but then he pulls the stat gun on you and curbs stomps you.

He's derek vinyard without the nazi thing.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Seriously though Rodgers will be an MVP contender next season. In order in terms of likelihood I'm gonna say:

Peyton Manning
Chris Johnson
Philip Rivers
Tom Brady(I think he rebounds this year)
Aaron Rodgers
Not sure how Brady can rebound.
Moss is finally on the decline.
Welker shredded the knee.
There' NO TE on the roster....
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Um he threw 2 ints against the ravens
This is where watching the game helps. Yes, his statline looked terrible, but if you go back and find the game threads here (if they're still available that is), you'll find a lot of praise for Peyton Manning's performance in that game. Baltimore's defense that year was as good as it ever was save 2000, and they played their best football that day. It's a case of "the other guys get paid to play the game too" more than anything.

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3 ints against the chiefs lmao
And went 30-38 for over 300 yards and a TD to go along with those (irrelevant) INTs. But you're right, he played a terrible game.

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1 in against the pats
Also led a Game Winning TD drive and the largest comeback in Conference Championship history by putting up 32 points in the 2nd half against a defense that hadn't allowed 32 points in a game all season, but let's just ignore all that and focus on one INT, seems good.

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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
and 1 against the bears.
Again, watch the game. No QB is going to throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs when they're facing one of the best scoring defenses in the league and that defense is sacrificing the run to stop the pass. After Wayne burned them deep, they dropped 7 in coverage for pretty much the rest of the game, and were practically giving the Colts 4-5 YPC. Do you really expect any QB to throw into that and make a ton of plays? If so, you may need to reevaluate what you consider good or smart football.

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He only threw 3 TDs in 4 games Peyton manning is amazing. Amazing choke artist that is.....
Wow, that was a good one, it must have taken you a while to come up with that one. Do you just look at stat sheets, regurgitate what ESPN tells you, and think it makes you come off as a knowledgeable football fan? Just curious, because that's the appearance you're giving off.

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Peyton= Godly regular season QB
Peyton= Playoff Choke Most of the time
Funny how perception can be the exact opposite of reality sometimes.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Funny how perception can be the exact opposite of reality sometimes.
Dam, I respect you for sticking up for your quarterback, but that's just not true. Peyton's not the same player in the offseason, maybe the 'choker' label isn't entirely justifyable, but to say that it's completely unwarranted is taking it too far.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Had the bears had anyone slightly better then grossman that year, Manning would still be looking for his superbowl title.

I'll always remeber one of my best friends ( Colts fan) who said that to me after last years superbowl.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Not sure how Brady can rebound.
Moss is finally on the decline.
Welker shredded the knee.
There' NO TE on the roster....
did you think brady had a solid year last year? where do you rank him among qbs?
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:57 AM    (permalink
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Chances are Peyton won't win it again. It's like when Michael Jordan kept winning MVPs, eventually they got sick of it and gave it to Charles Barkley instead, even though Jordan clearly deserved it.

Then again, maybe he won't deserve it next year.... who am I to know? But either way I doubt he wins it, although I'd certainly like to see him get a 5th. I'd bet on Rivers, Rodgers, Brees, Peterson, Chris Johnson if the Titans do well... Who knows, there are a lot of good options. Even Tom Brady might pull it off if the Pats go crazy or something.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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They don't just stop giving out MVPs to players because they get bored of it.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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The fact this would be Peyton's 3rd in a row and 5th in his career definitely hurts his chances of winning it this year. If he and someone like Drew Brees (or whoever) wind up with around the same credentials, I think they'd give it to Brees instead.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
They don't just stop giving out MVPs to players because they get bored of it.
This, if that were true Manning wouldnt have gotten the MVP this past year.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Here's all I'm saying, summed up by Bill Simmons.

1993: Charles Barkley averaged a 26-12-5 for the 62-win Suns and won because everyone was tired of voting for Michael Jordan, which became awkward when Jordan cremated the Suns in the Finals. In fact, MJ finished third in the voting behind Hakeem Olajuwon, who submitted one of the greatest all-around seasons of the modern era (averaging a 26-13 with 150 steals and 342 blocks). Any time three of the greatest 20 players peak during the same year, that's a pretty good MVP race.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/080415
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you can compare basketball with football when it comes to MVP. There's always other candidates with MVP awards. Peyton could have not won it this year and nobody (save a few diehard Colts fans) would have batted an eye.

In basketball a star player can literally take over a season and drag a poor team to the playoffs. In football that just doesn't happen. Think about it, if this year not Peyton but... let's say Charles Johnson would have won MVP, who'd have objected?
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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I really can see this happening. His offensive line will get better, his receivers will have another year under their belt with him and the defense will come to maturity.

Hats off to Ted Thompson, this team has been rebuilt into a contender in almost no time and they have a stud QB for years to come. When its all said and done Aaron Rodgers will have a couple of trophies in his collection. He may not win as many MVPs as Favre but he could have more Super Bowl wins if he can be less error prone when he becomes a seasoned playoff QB.
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