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Old 03-18-2010, 08:17 PM    (permalink
bantx
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imagine what we can get for volek
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Look at the success rate of 3rd round picks.

Then consider moving down 20 spots in round 2 after you already have two firsts.

They didn't give up that much - this is just a draft website.

If Whitehurst is anything less than a capable starter they can win with - ya'll are right.

But what people need to be bashing the Seahawks for (what I bashed them for as soon as it happened) is passing on Sanchize and Crab for a 4-3 OLB. If they take Sanchize none of this ever happens...

That draft pick was a far worse move than potentially giving up a 3rd and 20 spots for nothing (CW).
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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And if he played for Rutgers he'd be the best thing since sliced bread.
Redundant comment is redundant.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Look at the success rate of 3rd round picks.

Then consider moving down 20 spots in round 2 after you already have two firsts.

They didn't give up that much - this is just a draft website.

If Whitehurst is anything less than a capable starter they can win with - ya'll are right.

But what people need to be bashing the Seahawks for (what I bashed them for as soon as it happened) is passing on Sanchize and Crab for a 4-3 OLB. If they take Sanchize none of this ever happens...

That draft pick was a far worse move than potentially giving up a 3rd and 20 spots for nothing (CW).
doesn't matter, it's a quarterback who was third string, a former third round pick with no NFL experience outside a few preseason games. It makes so little sense to give up what they gave up for him. Even if it's not much, it still makes very little sense.

Heck, even if Whitehurst is a success, it is still a very hefty price to pay for a third string QB who has never thrown a pass.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Wait, so it's giving up too much to give up next year's 3rd + 20 spots for a 3rd round prospect with added NFL experience?
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Wait, so it's giving up too much to give up next year's 3rd + 20 spots for a 3rd round prospect with added NFL experience?


added NFL experience? He's been on a team, whoopdie-freaking-doo! Third round prospect occupying the seed UNDER Billy Volek, mind you.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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unless they prove something then nfl prospects are like cars. once you drive them off the lot, their value only goes down. (except for classic and/or awesome ones, whitehurst is not classic or awesome)
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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So then they should have just said "we will only give you a 4th for your 3rd round prospect?"

And then when the Chargers say "no" they move on and do nothing about their QB situation - because it is so important to preserve those 20 spots and the 3rd next year.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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unless they prove something then nfl prospects are like cars. once you drive them off the lot, their value only goes down. (except for classic and/or awesome ones, whitehurst is not classic or awesome)
I do not think NFL prospects are in any way similar to cars. I may be wrong.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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So then they should have just said "we will only give you a 4th for your 3rd round prospect?"

And then when the Chargers say "no" they move on and do nothing about their QB situation - because it is so important to preserve those 20 spots and the 3rd next year.

Is the draft over already?
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Is the draft over already?
They just made their pick. It was Charlie Whitehurst, QB, Clemson in the 3rd + a little bit round.

That selection is worse than LeFevour or McCoy at #40 how?
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Volek did lead the Chargers on a game winning drive in the playoffs vs the Colts. That was without LT back when he was great.

I can definitly see why they would keep him as their #2, even if Whitehurst looked much more impressive in practice.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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They just made their pick. It was Charlie Whitehurst, QB, Clemson in the 3rd + a little bit round.

That selection is worse than LeFevour or McCoy at #40 how?
That wasn't what my response was to. You said if they said no to this deal, then they would be doing nothing about their QB situation, as if this was taking place after the draft and they missed their opportunity already.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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wow that's a great gif :D I just watched the daily show, too.

anyhoo, so about whitehurst. Why is he worse than McCoy, well for one he's been gathering dust for 3 seasons, couldn't overtake Volek on the depth chart and hasn't played a single snap, not even garbage time. They spent a third rounder and 20 spots in the second on an unknown entity with no experience as a player in the actual NFL.

And I cannot stress this enough. Considering the above, even if Whitehurst turns out to be fantastic, they overpaid. A 3rd string backup is simply not worth that kind of picks.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Volek as a backup on a perennial championship contender > Whitehurst as a backup on a perennial championship contender.

Whitehurst's future as a potential NFL starter down the road > Volek's future as an NFL starter.

If you don't understand that logic then I can't help you.

The Chargers would never promote a green QB to overtake a good backup in Volek given their status as an always contending, every-game-matters team.

Whitehurst "not being able to beat out Volek" says nothing about Whitehurst's potential.

And if he does turn out to be a quality starting QB, the 3rd and 20 spots will have been WELL worth it - to say otherwise is pretty stupid.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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They didn't give up that much - this is just a draft website.
This is a good point about these forums and many football fans. Draft picks are fun and exciting. There's mystery behind them. Fans sometimes overrate their value. However, the fact is 2nd and 3rd round picks aren't anything remotely close to a guarantee of finding an impact player. People that assume Whitehurst can never be a quality starter should see that, since he was a 3rd rnd pick. No, Draft picks shouldn't be given away, but the Seahawks obviously like Whitehurst. Many good QBs have been doubted before they get their chance.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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This is a good point about these forums and many football fans. Draft picks are fun and exciting. There's mystery behind them. Fans sometimes overrate their value. However, the fact is 2nd and 3rd round picks aren't anything remotely close to a guarantee of finding an impact player. People that assume Whitehurst can never be a quality starter should see that, since he was a 3rd rnd pick. No, Draft picks shouldn't be given away, but the Seahawks obviously like Whitehurst. Many good QBs have been doubted before they get their chance.
the bold part is true, the rest is self-defeating.

If we know nothing of Whitehurst save a few preseason throws, so he is essentially just a very old draft pick at this point, hence it's just like spending draft picks to get a guy who is a draft pick, just older and a third stringer. See how this makes very little sense? You say yourself that third and even second round picks aren't anything close to a guarantee for impact players. So what makes Whitehurst special? Your argument just collapses in on itself once you more than gloss over it.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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What makes CW special? The same thing that makes any prospect special (for example, a prospect you can get with that 3rd round pick): the fact that he may turn out to be a very good football player.

Not beating out Volek and PHIL RIVERS does not disprove the above indisputable fact.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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This is a good point about these forums and many football fans. Draft picks are fun and exciting. There's mystery behind them. Fans sometimes overrate their value. However, the fact is 2nd and 3rd round picks aren't anything remotely close to a guarantee of finding an impact player. People that assume Whitehurst can never be a quality starter should see that, since he was a 3rd rnd pick. No, Draft picks shouldn't be given away, but the Seahawks obviously like Whitehurst. Many good QBs have been doubted before they get their chance.



Actually most coaches and GM's value picks like no other, this has nothing to do with fans on a draft website. Nobody is saying you are guaranteed to find an impact player at a certain point, just that they overpaid in getting him by alot.


Does anyone think SD turns down a 5th round pick outright? I wouldn't know for sure but I doubt they would. Or at worst a 3rd and a swap of picks in the 5th round? It's not like San Diego was holding onto him to start him eventually.


There is a good way and a bad way to negotiate, the teams under great management know this. Obviously Carroll hasn't learned how to negotiate properly yet.




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Volek as a backup on a perennial championship contender > Whitehurst as a backup on a perennial championship contender.

Whitehurst's future as a potential NFL starter down the road > Volek's future as an NFL starter.

If you don't understand that logic then I can't help you.

The Chargers would never promote a green QB to overtake a good backup in Volek given their status as an always contending, every-game-matters team.

Whitehurst "not being able to beat out Volek" says nothing about Whitehurst's potential.

And if he does turn out to be a quality starting QB, the 3rd and 20 spots will have been WELL worth it - to say otherwise is pretty stupid.


If Whitehurst ends up making the pro bowl 7 times then a 1st round pick would of been well worth giving up, but that doesn't mean you should have. I'm glad you don't think moving up 20 spots to the 2nd round is a big deal to you though.


Last year that would of been the difference between Atlanta getting Louis Delmas instead of William Moore, and the difference between a 1st round talent who was still on the board and a solid 2nd round grade. Combine that with there wasn't a big market either, Arizona wasn't going to offer up a package that lucrative because their options are better then yours as far as young QB's go.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
What makes CW special? The same thing that makes any prospect special (for example, a prospect you can get with that 3rd round pick): the fact that he may turn out to be a very good football player.

Not beating out Volek and PHIL RIVERS does not disprove the above indisputable fact.
again, then why the hell did they feel the need to throw in a second for a guy who is five years (he's 27) older than most draft picks (let's say average is 22). Who has been stuck behind Volek. I never said I blamed him for not beating Rivers (awesome job on the capitals there, acting like I'm an idiot for not realizing who the Chargers starting QB is... classy). But Volek? If Volek had been the starter we'd cry rape and fire over his backup getting this kind of money and trade. That's what this guy is. The backup's backup.

So great, swap seconds and give up a third for a 27 year old rookie who failed to become the first backup to Rivers. I wish this made sense to me. I wish this could impress me as much as it impresses you. But it doesn't and I'm still convinced that it's too high a price.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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If Whitehurst ends up making the pro bowl 7 times then a 1st round pick would of been well worth giving up, but that doesn't mean you should have.
I was almost going to agree completely with you, but I can't because of this. The price wouldn't have been bad in hindsight, but in all honesty, it's too much for what Whitehurst is NOW. If he has an excellent career (and just so we're clear, I want him to have a good career, I don't hate the player Whitehurst) than good for him, and good for the seahawks. Doesn't change the fact that he's not worth that kind of a trade at this point.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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You don't understand why someone with no NFL experience wouldn't leapfrog a solid, seasoned vet as a backup QB for a team playing for playoff seeding implications and with Super Bowl aspirations?
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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the bold part is true, the rest is self-defeating.
If we know nothing of Whitehurst save a few preseason throws, so he is essentially just a very old draft pick at this point, hence it's just like spending draft picks to get a guy who is a draft pick, just older and a third stringer. See how this makes very little sense? You say yourself that third and even second round picks aren't anything close to a guarantee for impact players. So what makes Whitehurst special? Your argument just collapses in on itself once you more than gloss over it.
Whitehurst is special because he plays the most important position in the game and the Seahawks' starting QB is 34 and has missed many games in recent years. The Seahawks obviously like him better than this year's Draft options. Can you say with certainty that any one player is a better bet than Whitehurst? If so, who. The Seahawks have to get a QB who they feel can play when(not if) Hasselbeck gets hurt or just isn't starting quality. If you think there's a better option for the Seahawks, tell us who it is. Is taking Bradford or Clausen, assuming one of them is there, which is not close to guarenteed, a safer move? Tebow in the second? What's the better option?

People continue to bash the move, but can't make a better suggestion
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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You don't understand why someone with no NFL experience wouldn't leapfrog a solid, seasoned vet as a backup QB for a team playing for playoff seeding implications and with Super Bowl aspirations?
how the hell do you explain your arguments to yourself? Your opinions don't add up with what you're saying. Seriously you're defending this guy being traded for a 20 pick second round swap and a third round pick and now you're actually admitting that it makes perfect sense that he can't beat Volek?

Hell a few posts ago you were telling me he does have NFL experience. For god's sake think your arguments through before throwing them onto the internet wrapped in nonsensical rhetoric. The stupidity you've succesfully implied so far is your own, and I do regret having to tell you that.
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