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Old 03-16-2007, 12:27 AM    (permalink) 
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Any football fan with a clue knows Moss is still one of the most dangerous receivers in the game, and if you put in a competent offense he is a top knotch receiver without a doubt.

No he is not the youngest, but WR's are able to produce into the 30's just fine.

Torry Holt - 30 (Has had only 1 season with less then 1000 yards, his rookie year)
Hines Ward - 31 (975 yards the past 2 seasons)
Driver - 32 (Pro Bowler)
Terrell Owens - 33 (Arguably the most dominate receiver in the game)
Marvin Harrison - 34 ('Nuff said)
Joe Horn - 35 (Had 1400 yards in 05, at age 33)

The list goes on...Laveranues Coles - 29, Plaxico Burress - 29, Terry Glen - 32, Muhsin Muhammad - 33, Isaac Bruce - 34, Joey Galloway - 35, etc.

Moss JUST turned 30 last month.

Age is not an issue.

With that being said, It's starting to look as if this trade will not go down, and was not really as close to going down as it seemed.

IF it does happen however, the Raiders are not in a position to get even value for Moss, no way they come away with a 2nd, I doubt they get a 3rd.

They would be lucky to come away with Rodgers (though I highly doubt that) or the Packers 4th, and a player like KGB, or Ferguson.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink) 
geaux tigers
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i dont think the raiders are that foolish. if aaron rodgers was any good, the packers would keep him for themselves with favre retiring soon.
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:49 AM    (permalink) 
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i dont think the raiders are that foolish. if aaron rodgers was any good, the packers would keep him for themselves with favre retiring soon.
Exactly!! I'd do it if I'm GB, I don't like it if I'm Oakland.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:02 AM    (permalink) 
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i dont think the raiders are that foolish. if aaron rodgers was any good, the packers would keep him for themselves with favre retiring soon.
Raidah's foolishness is what got them where they are today with a 2-14 record and the first pick in the draft.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:03 AM    (permalink) 
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Any football fan with a clue knows Moss is still one of the most dangerous receivers in the game, and if you put in a competent offense he is a top knotch receiver without a doubt.

No he is not the youngest, but WR's are able to produce into the 30's just fine.

Torry Holt - 30 (Has had only 1 season with less then 1000 yards, his rookie year)
Hines Ward - 31 (975 yards the past 2 seasons)
Driver - 32 (Pro Bowler)
Terrell Owens - 33 (Arguably the most dominate receiver in the game)
Marvin Harrison - 34 ('Nuff said)
Joe Horn - 35 (Had 1400 yards in 05, at age 33)

The list goes on...Laveranues Coles - 29, Plaxico Burress - 29, Terry Glen - 32, Muhsin Muhammad - 33, Isaac Bruce - 34, Joey Galloway - 35, etc.

Moss JUST turned 30 last month.

Age is not an issue.

With that being said, It's starting to look as if this trade will not go down, and was not really as close to going down as it seemed.

IF it does happen however, the Raiders are not in a position to get even value for Moss, no way they come away with a 2nd, I doubt they get a 3rd.

They would be lucky to come away with Rodgers (though I highly doubt that) or the Packers 4th, and a player like KGB, or Ferguson.
One key difference, those guys have produced. Moss hasn't produced for 3 consecutive seasons now.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:19 AM    (permalink) 
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I think all of this arguing about the value of the trade is just dumb, instead of sitting here and trying to figure out who got the better of the trade, I think the best thing to do is to wait till 07 (that is if this deal officially gets done). I know speculation might be the only things football fans really have to do at this point, but I think the best thing to do is just wait it out. Time will tell who got the better of the trade. Do I think that Rodgers is a bust? Certainly Not! Do I think Randy Moss can be good again? Certainly! Do I think the Packers are getting better value on this trade? I don't know! But what I do know is that if TT trades Rodgers for Moss than obviously he must think that Rodgers wasn't the guy he expected him to be. I really doubt we make the trade unless TT truly feels that Rodgers is not our future. Maybe he will succeed and maybe he just needs more time to develop, but who knows, I have barely seen him on the field so its hard to judge who is getting the better value of this trade. I also am sick of hearing things like Rodgers was taken in the 1st round and was almost the 1st pick of the draft so the Packers must be getting bad value. I definitely don't think that is the case. I think TT knows the value of Moss and how much he has to give up to get him, and if he trades Rodgers he obviously feels that Rodgers is not of the same value he was a couple of years ago, TT will not make this trade unless he absolutely 100% feels like he is getting good value here. That I do know, he is that type of guy, where he tries to get good value. Now with that said my honest opinion is that I think this trade could work out good for both teams.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:25 AM    (permalink) 
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One key difference, those guys have produced. Moss hasn't produced for 3 consecutive seasons now.
He had almost 800 yards and 13 TD in 2004 and had 1000 yards and 8 TD in 2005. While those aren't elite numbers, they qualify as producing.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:55 AM    (permalink) 
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One key difference, those guys have produced. Moss hasn't produced for 3 consecutive seasons now.
These are his averages over those 3 years where "he hasn't produced":

50-REC/775-YDS/15.2-AVG/8-TD per year

Obviously these numbers don't live up to his lofty ones earlier in his career, but to say that he hasn't produced is just uninformed. Anyone can figure out that averaging only 50 catches a year is the big problem and that that stems from injuries and awful QB play over 2 of those years. Obviously Moss isn't helping matters by sitting around pouting and giving up on plays, but that doesn't mean he doesn't still have a ton of talent.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:20 PM    (permalink) 
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One key difference, those guys have produced. Moss hasn't produced for 3 consecutive seasons now.
Since two people have already shot down your statement with numbers, I'll just go ahead and add what has already been "added" twenty million times, which is the fact that Moss played in what was/is one of the most inept offenses the league has seen the past couple of years, a horrible O-line, a horrible QB situation, and no run game.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:54 PM    (permalink) 
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Since two people have already shot down your statement with numbers, I'll just go ahead and add what has already been "added" twenty million times, which is the fact that Moss played in what was/is one of the most inept offenses the league has seen the past couple of years, a horrible O-line, a horrible QB situation, and no run game.
And for the 20,000,001st time, I asked how Andre Johnson was able to be so productive with a similar team?
And how many catches did Randy Moss give up on himself? And why should a QB throw Randy Moss's way if he keeps giving up routes? Especially with Porter on the other side.

I can't believe so many people defending a player who has quit not just on one team, but two.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:59 PM    (permalink) 
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And for the 20,000,001st time, I asked how Andre Johnson was able to be so productive with a similar team?
And how many catches did Randy Moss give up on himself? And why should a QB throw Randy Moss's way if he keeps giving up routes? Especially with Porter on the other side.

I can't believe so many people defending a player who has quit not just on one team, but two.
this past year:

Carr>Brooks and Walter at this point of his career
Houston's running game>Raiders running game
Houston's oline>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Raiders o-line
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:13 PM    (permalink) 
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And for the 20,000,001st time, I asked how Andre Johnson was able to be so productive with a similar team?
And how many catches did Randy Moss give up on himself? And why should a QB throw Randy Moss's way if he keeps giving up routes? Especially with Porter on the other side.

I can't believe so many people defending a player who has quit not just on one team, but two.
As bernbb820 said.
Carr>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Collins+Walter+Brooks
Easy to understand as that. Plus Carr did have a better running game.

GB is only looking for a deep threat. Jennings and Driver arent great deep threats, but as you may recall in 04 GB had Javon Walker and Favre threw for 4000 and 30 tds
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:51 PM    (permalink) 
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And for the 20,000,001st time, I asked how Andre Johnson was able to be so productive with a similar team?
And how many catches did Randy Moss give up on himself? And why should a QB throw Randy Moss's way if he keeps giving up routes? Especially with Porter on the other side.
The same Jerry Porter who spent all of last season on the sideline because he was in Al Davis' doghouse?
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:57 PM    (permalink) 
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The same Jerry Porter who spent all of last season on the sideline because he was in Al Davis' doghouse?
Actually, it was Art Shell's doghouse ;)...either way, Porter only played a few snaps.
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:24 PM    (permalink) 
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Actually, it was Art Shell's doghouse ;)...either way, Porter only played a few snaps.
my bad, I knew he pissed someone off. lol
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:51 PM    (permalink) 
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As a Packer fan, I WOULD LOVE THIS TRADE!!! Will they win the Super Bowl this year? No, but with Moss they are a definite playoff team. Maybe Favre told the front office he is staying for 2 more years. If that is the case, Rodgers won't see playing time on his rookie contract, and it doesn't matter his potential. He would bolt as soon as he becomes a free agent.

In an interview last year, he was asked what would happen if Favre returned another year. He said that he can play in this league and would want a chance to prove it. Maybe Rodgers asked for a trade. From everything I have heard, they like Rodgers as a person, I don't know how they like him as a player. If they can trade him and improve their team drastically for 2 years and keep everyone happy, wouldn't that be a good trade?

Raiders:Get rid of a malcontent and get a QB.
Packers: Get a deep threat for Favre's last 2 years, something that he desperately wants.
Rodgers: Gets a chance to play before his rookie contract.
Moss: Get out of the abyss known as Oakland.

Everyone wins.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:41 PM    (permalink) 
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If Ted Thompson honestly drafted Aaron Rodgers with no intention of ever playing him then he is the stupidest GM of all-time.

What about Matt Millen?

Anyways.. I´m not a fan of this trade.. but I´m not big on Russell either. I want Oakland to take Calvin, so if this trade will mean Calvin Johnson in silver and black, then I´d be OK with it.
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:23 AM    (permalink) 
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It makes sense for both sides.

I must say though, as it pertains to Ted Thompson, I would be shocked that he would ship out "his guy" and risk the long term stability of the franchise for a one, maybe two year shot at making some noise in the playoffs. They either really are not sold on Rogers (which is odd since they drafted him) or they are really feeling the pressure to do something for Lord Favre in his last season or two.

Either way, I wouldn't love shipping off your QB of the future, but it does make them a better team in the short run at a time when the Bears could potentially be vulnerable.
these were my thoughts, it makes all the sense in the world for oakland, none for green bay...if they want to make a serious run just throw out a 2nd or 3rd and call it a day, but what if moss doesnt help favre make a super bowl run, and rogers ends up being really great, then your back at square one with no qb, and this time will have to draft one alot later, vs going with the one projected top 10 first rd
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:33 PM    (permalink) 
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He had almost 800 yards and 13 TD in 2004 and had 1000 yards and 8 TD in 2005. While those aren't elite numbers, they qualify as producing.
And he'd come to a team that already has a #1 in Driver. I'd take those numbes from a "#2 WR". Also with Driver to take pressure and defenders off his production should go up. Also we have a QB that can get him the ball. Favre to Moss down field is a great combo.
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Old 03-17-2007, 07:16 PM    (permalink) 
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You can knock 5 years off Torry Holt and Marvin Harrison's age because those guys take amazing care of their bodies. Pretty much the same with Hines Ward.

Moss is lazy. He's never in shape, he has almost no off season workout program. Lets not even bring up his "rumored" drug use.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:06 PM    (permalink) 
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doesnt he work out with cris carter every offseason? because cris carter was always one of the most in shape people while he was playing. I am sure that if he still works out with him, he would be the same way. Plus, I have never heard of him not coming to camp in shape. So he enjoys toking up every once in a while, I would bet that 50% of NFL players do.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:16 PM    (permalink) 
DHVF
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doesnt he work out with cris carter every offseason? because cris carter was always one of the most in shape people while he was playing. I am sure that if he still works out with him, he would be the same way. Plus, I have never heard of him not coming to camp in shape. So he enjoys toking up every once in a while, I would bet that 50% of NFL players do.
Yeah, I have never really heard anything about Moss coming in out of shape. Don't know what marks was talking about.
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:43 AM    (permalink) 
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What about Matt Millen?

Anyways.. I´m not a fan of this trade.. but I´m not big on Russell either. I want Oakland to take Calvin, so if this trade will mean Calvin Johnson in silver and black, then I´d be OK with it.
Matt Millen at least drafts players with the intention of playing them...
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:25 AM    (permalink) 
princefielder28
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Matt Millen at least drafts players with the intention of playing them...
Yeah, but he can only start so many wide receivers :)
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:25 PM    (permalink) 
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Can everyone stop talking about this now.. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2803272
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