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Old 03-29-2010, 10:36 AM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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As long as Tony Boselli isn't in the HoF, none of those guys should be. If it wasn't for some hack doctor who ruined his shoulders early, we'd be talking about Boselli as the GOAT. He dominated at LT like nobody I've ever seen before and his career was cut woefully short.

Terrell Davis is another guy who should get in before any of the people on that list.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Can't believe people still think Mcnabb isn't a Hall of Famer. As for the players listed, none of them get in if they all retired today.
I still can't believe people think he IS a Hall of Famer. He's been on some pretty stacked teams and finds a way to blow it every single year. He's never won anything of significance and has put up very good (not great) statistics in an offensive system that throws the ball 70% of the time. The idea of his bust being next to Joe Montana's and Johnny Unitas' is enough to make me sick.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
He's been on some pretty stacked teams and finds a way to blow it every single year. He's never won anything of significance and has put up very good (not great) statistics in an offensive system that throws the ball 70% of the time.
Having starters at WR like Greg Lewis, Reggie Brown, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash makes the team stacked? You say they pass the ball 70% of the time but when you have WR's like that it doesn't help at all. And getting to 5 NFC championship games is pretty significant. Im not saying he is ior out, but just saying by those reasons I dont understand.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Having starters at WR like Greg Lewis, Reggie Brown, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash makes the team stacked? You say they pass the ball 70% of the time but when you have WR's like that it doesn't help at all. And getting to 5 NFC championship games is pretty significant. Im not saying he is ior out, but just saying by those reasons I dont understand.
The poor WR argument only works until 2003. It's 2010 now, and since the 03 season and Philly has definitely brought in its fair share of playmakers to put around McNabb.

I really don't care about the 5 NFC Championships either, but that's just me. 5 NFC Championships should have translated to more than just 1 Superbowl loss.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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The poor WR argument only works until 2003. It's 2010 now, and since the 03 season and Philly has definitely brought in its fair share of playmakers to put around McNabb.

I really don't care about the 5 NFC Championships either, but that's just me. 5 NFC Championships should have translated to more than just 1 Superbowl loss.
Probably shouldn't have even made the super bowl, if I remember correctly that was the year with the 4th and 27 or whatever where Fred-ex some how snagged that deep ball.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson = No
Larry Fitzgerald = No
Chris Johnson = No

If Chris Johnson were to get injured, and make it in before Terrell Davis, I'd crap.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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People need to to just face it Terrell Davis is not getting in the HOF it sucks and a shame heck of a player but it is not going to happen.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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People need to to just face it Terrell Davis is not getting in the HOF it sucks and a shame heck of a player but it is not going to happen.
Nobody is saying that he SHOULD get in, but rather he should get in before any of the people on this list.
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Nobody is saying that he SHOULD get in, but rather he should get in before any of the people on this list.
don't worry, none of them will get in right now.
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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That first list is horrible... If TD isn't in, then CJ2K and AD don't get in. TD had 2000 rushing yards, MVP and a SuperBowl all in the same season, and he still isn't in. CJ only has 2000. AD has even less than that.

My off the top of my head list of guys who get in if their careers ended today;

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees(borderline)
McNabb(borderline)
TO
Randy Moss(borderline)
LT
Favre
Ray Lewis
Champ Bailey
Ed Reed
Brian Dawkins(borderline)
Charles Woodson(I think the DPOY secured his spot, still somewhat borderline)
Hines Ward(borderline)
Orlando Pace
Walter Jones
Steve Hutchinson(borderline)
Lorenzo Neal
Marvin Harrison(if he counts, he may be officially retired?)
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm more bummed by Sterling Sharpe not having the opportunity to go into the HOF than TD, to be honest.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JonasBlane View Post
My off the top of my head list of guys who get in if their careers ended today;

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees(borderline)
McNabb(borderline)
TO
Randy Moss(borderline)
LT
Favre
Ray Lewis
Champ Bailey
Ed Reed
Brian Dawkins(borderline)
Charles Woodson(I think the DPOY secured his spot, still somewhat borderline)
Hines Ward(borderline)
Orlando Pace
Walter Jones
Steve Hutchinson(borderline)
Lorenzo Neal
Marvin Harrison(if he counts, he may be officially retired?)
Tony Gonzalez says Hi.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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TonyG slipped my mind... He is obviously on there.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JonasBlane View Post
That first list is horrible... If TD isn't in, then CJ2K and AD don't get in. TD had 2000 rushing yards, MVP and a SuperBowl all in the same season, and he still isn't in. CJ only has 2000. AD has even less than that.

My off the top of my head list of guys who get in if their careers ended today;

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees(borderline)
McNabb(borderline)
TO
Randy Moss(borderline)
LT
Favre
Ray Lewis
Champ Bailey
Ed Reed
Brian Dawkins(borderline)
Charles Woodson(I think the DPOY secured his spot, still somewhat borderline)
Hines Ward(borderline)
Orlando Pace
Walter Jones
Steve Hutchinson(borderline)
Lorenzo Neal
Marvin Harrison(if he counts, he may be officially retired?)
Not arguing with you, just curious your reason - why is TO in but Moss is borderline? They both have 140ish touchdowns & nearly 15k yards. the only real difference is T.O.'s 80 more receptions (which is about an entire season's worth for these guys, that's why it's significant).

While receptions can be a key factor in a player's stats (Some guys make a living off being open on every single play rather being a play maker) we all know that Moss is a big play receiver and he's simply not going to be one of those guys that's always open. I don't think it hurts him at all for HoF though.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
None of those guys would make the HOF honestly man, they may be well on their way but the HOF is about longevity, you can't just put them in because they had a good start.


Andre Johnson? No way in hell. Ware? Nope. I doubt anyone on that list would be close to making it to be honest.


It would have to be a guy close to retirement, way too many guys have been good for long periods of time that wouldn't get overlooked by a guy with 2-3 good seasons.
Andre Johnson has been in the league almost as long as Barry Sanders.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Andre Johnson has been in the league almost as long as Barry Sanders.
Sanders played 10 years, Johnson has played 7. Nice try, but no.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Not arguing with you, just curious your reason - why is TO in but Moss is borderline? They both have 140ish touchdowns & nearly 15k yards. the only real difference is T.O.'s 80 more receptions (which is about an entire season's worth for these guys, that's why it's significant).

While receptions can be a key factor in a player's stats (Some guys make a living off being open on every single play rather being a play maker) we all know that Moss is a big play receiver and he's simply not going to be one of those guys that's always open. I don't think it hurts him at all for HoF though.
Most of Terrell Owens' stats are slightly higher than Randy Moss's simply because he has been in the league 2 more years. I don't know why he had Randy Moss as borderline, he along with Terrell Owens are both definate Hall of Fame WR's.

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Originally Posted by JonasBlane
Peyton Manning Yes
Tom Brady Yes
Drew Brees(borderline) Maybe
McNabb(borderline) Slim but Maybe
TO Yes
Randy Moss(borderline) Borderline?...More like Hell Yeah
LT Yes
Favre Yes
Ray Lewis Yes
Champ Bailey Maybe
Ed Reed Maybe
Brian Dawkins(borderline) Maybe
Charles Woodson(I think the DPOY secured his spot, still somewhat borderline)Maybe
Hines Ward(borderline) NO
Orlando Pace Yes
Walter Jones Yes
Steve Hutchinson(borderline)Maybe
Lorenzo Neal Not a chance in hell
Marvin Harrison(if he counts, he may be officially retired?) Yes
I had a good laugh when I saw Lorenzo Neal in yet Randy Moss was borderline.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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Andre Johnson has been in the league almost as long as Barry Sanders.
I think Barry Sanders is a pretty big exception though. Also, Andre started his career off slower than Barry did (understandably so due to the positions they played) which will hurt any player who doesn't play a long career.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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Sanders played 10 years, Johnson has played 7. Nice try, but no.
Thats why I put the word "almost" in the sentence.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Thats why I put the word "almost" in the sentence.
I saw that, but it's still wrong. 3 years is a big difference in the NFL. That's "almost" a third of Barry's career.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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And in those 10 seasons, Sanders was an All-Pro all 10 years, a league MVP, twice OPOTY, had 4 rushing titles, was 7 times in the Top 2 and finished his career as:

1. The 2nd leading rusher of all-time and only 1,400 yds short of Payton while still in his prime.

2. 2nd only to Brown in yds per game and yds per carry.

As good as Andre Johnson is he isn't getting a sniff of Canton if his career ended today. Jerry Rice was the only WR I have seen who would have been a certain HOFer after 7 seasons.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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You guys are right... Moss shouldn't be listed as a borderline guy. For some reason I thought his stats were lagging behind TO's more than they are.

As for Lorenzo... He probably won't get in because, well is there a pure blocking FB in the hall?

My listing him was more a case of me thinking he deserves to be in. He blocked for 11 straight 1000+ yard rushers.

He blocked for Eddie George for 2 of his best seasons, blocked for 2 of Corey Dillon's best seasons, and blocked for LT during his best years including his record breaking season. He blocked for Warrick Dunn in one only his 2 1000 yard rushing seasons in his first 7 years.

Having Lorenzo Neal in his prime(which lasted like 10 years) basically guaranteed you would have a decent running game.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JonasBlane View Post
You guys are right... Moss shouldn't be listed as a borderline guy. For some reason I thought his stats were lagging behind TO's more than they are.

As for Lorenzo... He probably won't get in because, well is there a pure blocking FB in the hall?

My listing him was more a case of me thinking he deserves to be in. He blocked for 11 straight 1000+ yard rushers.

He blocked for Eddie George for 2 of his best seasons, blocked for 2 of Corey Dillon's best seasons, and blocked for LT during his best years including his record breaking season. He blocked for Warrick Dunn in one only his 2 1000 yard rushing seasons in his first 7 years.

Having Lorenzo Neal in his prime(which lasted like 10 years) basically guaranteed you would have a decent running game.
correlation is not causation. Lorenzo Neal was a great fullback and blocked for some great guys, but he didn't guarantee anything lol. All of those guys had above average o-lines as well.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:17 PM    (permalink
Crazy_Chris
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Originally Posted by JonasBlane View Post
You guys are right... Moss shouldn't be listed as a borderline guy. For some reason I thought his stats were lagging behind TO's more than they are.

As for Lorenzo... He probably won't get in because, well is there a pure blocking FB in the hall?

My listing him was more a case of me thinking he deserves to be in. He blocked for 11 straight 1000+ yard rushers.

He blocked for Eddie George for 2 of his best seasons, blocked for 2 of Corey Dillon's best seasons, and blocked for LT during his best years including his record breaking season. He blocked for Warrick Dunn in one only his 2 1000 yard rushing seasons in his first 7 years.

Having Lorenzo Neal in his prime(which lasted like 10 years) basically guaranteed you would have a decent running game.
Eddie George, Corey Dillion, and LT had all established themselves as 1000 yard rushers/top tier NFL RBs by the time Lorenzo Neal arrived at their teams. Lorenzo Neal was not a big difference maker for all those players to have consecutive 1,000 seasons. He was a good blocking FB that benefited from playing with some excellent RBs including one of the all time greats in his prime(LT).
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:13 PM    (permalink
prock
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Randy Moss is far from borderline. He better go in as a Viking.

But I refuse to debate about the Hall of Fame until Cris Carter gets in.
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