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Old 03-30-2010, 11:48 PM    (permalink
SenorGato
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Default Why are young players called busts so quickly now?

Just curious...I see it thrown out for Vernon Gholston 24/7...Derrick Harvey is already destined to be nothing...I've seen it for Adam Carriker...I heard it about Dwayne Robertson, who was actually a damn good player when he wasn't the only legit DT on the roster....I hear it about Matt Leinart (not a fan, but he's in the right place to start a QB career)...Brady Quinn (kind of like Leinart, heading to a top QB/offensive coach IMO)....

These are guys who were called bust like a year or two into their careers. What is with that? I see the same thing being talked about with Taylor Mays, who will probably struggle early in his career but ultimately turn out to be a pretty good starter...
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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When was Dwayne Robertson a damn good player? When he played for the Jets? Cause to me he was still the 4th best player on that Dline. Right behind Abraham, Ellis and Ferguson.

Gholston has like 6 tackles, not sacks... tackles. Thats why he's a bust.

Harvey was going to be a 10+ sack guy, he's not. So he's a bust to JAC but not the worst player in the world.

Carriker played like 6 games in the last two years... Thats why he's a bust.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Because people root for other teams young talent to fail.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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When was Dwayne Robertson a damn good player? When he played for the Jets? Cause to me he was still the 4th best player on that Dline. Right behind Abraham, Ellis and Ferguson.

Gholston has like 6 tackles, not sacks... tackles. Thats why he's a bust.

Harvey was going to be a 10+ sack guy, he's not. So he's a bust to JAC but not the worst player in the world.

Carriker played like 6 games in the last two years... Thats why he's a bust.
In '04, his second year in the league. A few coaches called him the best DT they faced that year...Cowher was one IIRC...then we let Ferguson go and put James Reed at the nose instead. Then his knee went arthritic at like 24...

Gholston's 24 and been in the league a whole 2 years in a couple weeks.

Your view on Harvey could be the same one some FO takes on Gholston.

Carriker's been misused in St. Louis as a NT/DT when he's more or a DE/DT. There's still a whole lot of upside there.

There's been a ton of players who've shown up and solid careers despite not blowing up their first two seasons. I don't get where this view came from...OK that's a lie...I don't know why it's so dominant.

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Because people root for other teams young talent to fail.
Yes, but this is JEts fans calling Gholston and Robertson busts...Rams fans (I guess) calling Carriker a bust...Leinart...etc...
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Because people are entirely way too impatient and want to predict the future so they can prepare themselves for it or just massage their ego when it's other teams' talent, some fans even root against their own team because they don't like management but that's really ****** up and probably just a new york thing.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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It's just cause the players are put into bad positions. They get to a bad team with no talent around them and what are they going to do? They are going to suck cause they are the only good players. Although, Brady Quinn has no excuse, he had Edwards for a long time, but I guess he wasn't really given much of a chance. Oh **** I'm talking in circles.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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The answer is ESPN
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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Gholston, top 6 pick with almost as many tackles in his career as Jerod Mayo had in a game.

They may be poor fits, but the teams that draft the players are usually the ones losing too much to call them anything else

If Gholston doesn't perform this year, the Jets will lose a 6th overall pick. There is no way you can call him anything but. He'll be cut if he doesn't have more than 24 tackles this year.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure it also has to do with the fact that there are also alot of young players excelling their first few years. Peterson, Johnson, Harvin, Ryan, Flacco, Heyward bey, etc......
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Because players are picked to be good now or at least within their first 2-3 years not 7 years down the road with a different team.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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I think it mainly comes down to people who don't really know that much about their teams (or other teams for that matter) check stats and if they don't see much, they immediately yell bust.

I remember some people saying Mendenhall was a bust prior to this year because he did squat in the 4 games he was healthy last year.

People are calling Ziggy Hood a bust because he's not doing anything so far. For starters, he's a 3-4 DE, so he's not going to get that many stats, add in the fact that he was #4 or #5 on the depth chart, and people yell bust.

IMO, the bust label has to come only when a player has been given enough opportunities to prove himself and he constantly fails.

Brady Quinn hasn't had that many opportunities. Matt Leinart hasn't had that many opportunities. Those guys might not have had great careers thus far, but could still develop.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure it also has to do with the fact that there are also alot of young players excelling their first few years. Peterson, Johnson, Harvin, Ryan, Flacco, Heyward bey, etc......
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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Haha, I was just about to quote it and bold the uh....part in question.

To the topic though, a lot of the young guys who seem to get labeled as busts come into the league with HUGE expectations placed upon them, fairly or not. A great example is Reggie Bush. I distinctively remember the "bust" word being throw around when he failed to score a TD in his first couple of games...

And to a guy like Gholston, I keep hearing how not only was he playing badly, he didn't seem to be trying very hard to get better. I've also heard a few things saying that he is trying to improve, but they make up a small fraction of the bust talk.

Plus, in today's NFL, you just cannot sit for a year to learn anymore. Not just first round picks, but even 2nd and 3rd rounders get called busts or wasted picks if they fail to crack the starting lineup and make impacts as rookies. Once upon a time, rookies only started on the worst teams, and they were usually the top draft pick, uber-talented kind of guys.

I can't think of any NFL coaches off the top of my head that fit this, but in some other sports, there are coaches you hear about that never player rookies, or play them very little, even if they play well in limited time. I think Gregg Popovich of the Spurs is someone I've heard doesn't like to play rookies for example.

So it's a combination of a lot of things really.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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Haha, I was just about to quote it and bold the uh....part in question.

To the topic though, a lot of the young guys who seem to get labeled as busts come into the league with HUGE expectations placed upon them, fairly or not. A great example is Reggie Bush. I distinctively remember the "bust" word being throw around when he failed to score a TD in his first couple of games...

And to a guy like Gholston, I keep hearing how not only was he playing badly, he didn't seem to be trying very hard to get better. I've also heard a few things saying that he is trying to improve, but they make up a small fraction of the bust talk.

Plus, in today's NFL, you just cannot sit for a year to learn anymore. Not just first round picks, but even 2nd and 3rd rounders get called busts or wasted picks if they fail to crack the starting lineup and make impacts as rookies. Once upon a time, rookies only started on the worst teams, and they were usually the top draft pick, uber-talented kind of guys.

I can't think of any NFL coaches off the top of my head that fit this, but in some other sports, there are coaches you hear about that never player rookies, or play them very little, even if they play well in limited time. I think Gregg Popovich of the Spurs is someone I've heard doesn't like to play rookies for example.

So it's a combination of a lot of things really.
The giants still do it with some of our kids. Mario was redshirted, as were Barden, Beckum, Beatty and Thomas.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:36 AM    (permalink
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I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that the bigger name guys who go early are expected to contribute right away and when they don't they're labeled as busts.

One example is Dorsey, who was expected to help turn our defense into a dominant unit, but who didn't have much impact his first year. When we switched to a 3-4 a lot of people seemed to write him off, but he has worked hard and actually seems to be a good player at the position.

I'd say give everyone a few years to get acclimated to the pro game. It's different than college and some people (and especially some positions) take longer to adjust.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:40 AM    (permalink
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I dont know, OP, ask Vernon Davis.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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Because people are way to impatient now and days. Just like with everything else in life.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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in all fairness gholsten has busted in the 3-4
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:00 AM    (permalink
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I think the inflated rookie wages has a lot to do with it. The coaching staff can't really defend not playing a guy who's earning a lot more than the other guys, especially since he was drafted high to replace them. Also, the fans want to see them play. We pay for their salary in the end, and we want to see our money in action. So there's basically no way a coach can defend not playing a high draft pick. My guess is, that when rookie salaries get down to a decent level coaches will bench them and have them learn from the vets.
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:25 AM    (permalink
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Because players are picked to be good now or at least within their first 2-3 years not 7 years down the road with a different team.
This.

I think it's this factor mixed with the early success of other top rookies. People that follow the draft tend to predict how good a rookie does based on their predictions throughout the first couple of years. There are plenty of rookies that will make impacts 4-5 years down the road rather than 2 years. Carson Palmer was called a bust after his 2nd year (1st year on the bench) and look how he has turned out.

On the Vernon Gholston case, he's a bust. He was way overrated while he was at Ohio State. He may have had biceps as big as my head (literally, he does, I sat next to him when I first moved to Columbus at the Eddie George Grill). But his technique was sloppy and he should have only been a 4-3 DE to begin with. Who knows, maybe Gholston will flourish as a 4-3 DE someday, but for now, he's a bust.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I dont know, OP, ask Vernon Davis.
Exactly. If a player doesn't become a star immediately then bust talk is gonna mount really quickly. Vernon Davis was limited because of of QB play, how he was used and he was developing still. Then in his 4th year he blows up and people act like he was always going to be that good, when previously people were saying "bust" under their breath.

I remember when people were saying that Aaron Rodgers was a bust. He didn't have a real chance to play but people still called him a bust and said " I guess we see why he fell in the draft now." Its ridiculous.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith will be the next to defy the odds and remove the "bust" label. It's becoming a common theme in San Fran these days.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Mainly because there's a different between not playing well, and just not playing at all. If the coaches don't think your ready to even see the field at all, then your probably no where close to being a good player.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith will be the next to defy the odds and remove the "bust" label. It's becoming a common theme in San Fran these days.
Uh, no. I love my Niners, but I do not see Alex Smith living up to #1 overall status.
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