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Old 05-02-2011, 02:12 PM    (permalink
BigBlueNorwegian
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Kuechly is the only guy I've seen much of outside of Hightower and neither guy really impresses me, Kuechly is a good athlete who gets in on a lot of tackles but doesn't make many stand out plays and Hightower seems very stiff.

The only Guy I've seen is Burfict. And I LOVE him! He's such a nasty, physical and dominant player! If we have a chance, we HAVE to draft him!

Loved our draft btw, I think JR did the right thing when he decided to go BPA almost every pick. It seemed to me as though some of the other teams reached more than they would other years because of the lack of a Free Agency before the draft. I think we had the better approach, Get value in the draft, and address any remaining needs in FA.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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The only Guy I've seen is Burfict. And I LOVE him! He's such a nasty, physical and dominant player! If we have a chance, we HAVE to draft him!

Loved our draft btw, I think JR did the right thing when he decided to go BPA almost every pick. It seemed to me as though some of the other teams reached more than they would other years because of the lack of a Free Agency before the draft. I think we had the better approach, Get value in the draft, and address any remaining needs in FA.
Coughlin said on the radio today they thought that the reach run on QBs could happen, and they were thrilled that it did because they knew a very good player would fall to 19 who in most years would likely not be there.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but adding talent is the best way to overcome coaching instability and injuries.
No way, you can add all the talent you want, is the scheme sucks, there will be a trickle down effect. Morale drops, and frustration sets in. Then you worry about players acting out or flat giving up on you. Perfect example, Sheridan. He stunk, and Osi acted out. Last couple games the defense mailed it in. Doesn't matter if you have a team of superstars. They are not going to play or try when they don't believe in the DC and system.

Tim lewis is another example. Webster probably gets cut if Lewis is our DC. He used to rip into Webster, and then Spags came, and Webster was utilized correctly. The talent was there, but used wrong.

Same flip side, you can be talented but a good or excellent DC/OC can bring out more than the existing talent should.

That's the power of coaching and getting players to buy in.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Coughlin said on the radio today they thought that the reach run on QBs could happen, and they were thrilled that it did because they knew a very good player would fall to 19 who in most years would likely not be there.
Yeah, and that was great for us!I think Amukamara would have been a top 10-15 player in other drafts, but we got him at 19. Great job of staying true to your board by the Giants!

I'm already starting to get pumped for the season, seriously considering flying over this season to watch a game live at the stadium, but the damn lockout keeps me from being able to plan anything yet:(
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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The LB from BC is one to watch all year as well. I can't think of his name right now but he has a non stop motor and seems to be a little crazy which I like in my defensive players.
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
No way, you can add all the talent you want, is the scheme sucks, there will be a trickle down effect. Morale drops, and frustration sets in. Then you worry about players acting out or flat giving up on you. Perfect example, Sheridan. He stunk, and Osi acted out. Last couple games the defense mailed it in. Doesn't matter if you have a team of superstars. They are not going to play or try when they don't believe in the DC and system.

Tim lewis is another example. Webster probably gets cut if Lewis is our DC. He used to rip into Webster, and then Spags came, and Webster was utilized correctly. The talent was there, but used wrong.

Same flip side, you can be talented but a good or excellent DC/OC can bring out more than the existing talent should.

That's the power of coaching and getting players to buy in.
Sure, but if we don't have that consistent coaching what are you going to do? The Ravens are one of the only teams that comes to mind who were able to put together an elite d despite cycling through DC and they pulled it off through a tremendous talent level and great leadership from guys like Ray ray. Sure I'd rather just have Spags back for life, but as long as Coughlin's the HC we're not going to be able to hang onto a great DC for long, and the only way we can really combat that is by hiring less impressive DCs, who won't be able to leave for HC jobs, or by continuing to raise the talent level to lessen our need for a great DC.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I like our draft...the reason why I'm giving it a B-/C+ is bc of Marvin Austin.

I'm just not thrilled with the pick. Our draft grade in my eyes all rests with him. If he winds up being a stud, this draft is an A. But I just don't see it.

I was open to the idea of Austin, bc I felt that if our organization took the gamble on him, it's bc they really did their hw and feel they can mold him into a beast.

But the problem I'm having is I keep trying to sell myself on Austin, but I just can't seem to do it. The guy gets dominated by double teams, plays high, poor motor, constant underachiever, character issues. I just don't see it.

Then all of a sudden, looks good in shorts at the combine and dominates the East West Shrine game bc it's time to get paid, and I'm supposed to be sold on that? That worries me.

He has a lot of Albert Haynesworth in him. A lot. Those are the same exact reasons why I didn't want Nick Fairley. Austin is Fairley on steroids.

I hope I'm wrong, but Austin makes me nervous. I see 2 solid contributors from this draft, Prince and Jerrigan. Jones could be a solid backup, possibly more. We won't know anything about Brewer until 2 years from now.

If Austin becomes what he could be, we had a great draft. But if he doesnt, this might be a mediocre one.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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I heard the LB from BC is the bees knees. I'm gonna try to check him out this coming year.

One thing is for sure, LB is without question our biggest need moving forward.

I would say OL too, but it is yet to be seen how our young guns along the oline play this year. I have faith in Koets and Petrus. The jury is still out on Beatty. If Beatty pans out and Koets is healthy, we'll be fine.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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I have watched almost all of those LBs and would love to have Burfict, Keuchly or Te'o as our MIKE, I have watched them the closest and Keuchly would be perfect for us. Carder would be a great pick to. That potential class is just huge and I look forward to watching them closer next season and figuring out who really is best for our system.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I love Carder also from TCU.

It seems like we really used the end of the draft to strengthen our ST back up. All the players besides Scott should be pretty good on specials.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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So how are my favorite non-Cowboys group of posters feelin' post draft?
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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I respect what Reese did a lot. I'm just nervous about Austin.

And I probably would have went with Foster over Jerrigan. But Jerrigan wasn't a bad pick at all.

I wouldve went Paea in the 2nd too.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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I respect what Reese did a lot. I'm just nervous about Austin.

And I probably would have went with Foster over Jerrigan. But Jerrigan wasn't a bad pick at all.

I wouldve went Paea in the 2nd too.
I know what you mean BBD. We all question picks though. We all think we know better. haha. Did I want Bruce Carter in Round 2??? HELL NO. But I do have an open mind about it, so until they bust, it's hard to crucify them on the Monday following draft weekend.

As for you guys taking Austin... the player isn't bad at all, imo. I really liked him in fact. He's a guy I liked for the Cowboys in Round 2 and I mentioned that prior to our pick in that round. Unfortunately, our team didn't like him as much as I did. I was thinking of him as a 5 tech though... and honestly, he's not the best 5 tech fit... In the 4-3, that's where his fit and value truly is. When you guys got him, I was like "UGH... damn." Because now we have to face him! My only surprise is that you guys took a guy with the "bad character" label.

Foster was overrated on this forum by many. I for one was not a fan. I'd be surprised if he was anything more than an avg LB. I'll be surprised if he has a long career. Jernigan on the other hand is a guy I LOVE! Outside of Nicks, he's already your best receiver. Love him in the slot. I'm gonna compare his career to Dwyane Harris who we took in Round 6. Both have similar styles of play.

vs .
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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WalterFootball's thoughts on Brewer
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Surprise, surprise, Jerry Reese makes another incredible pick. James Brewer could have gone as high as the end of Round 2, so this is yet another steal. Brewer could eventually protect Eli Manning's blind side. (Pick Grade: A)
Never heard the guy as a round 2 talent before, but if he really is and could become our LT or RT of the future that would be awesome.
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Old 05-03-2011, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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I know what you mean BBD. We all question picks though. We all think we know better. haha. Did I want Bruce Carter in Round 2??? HELL NO. But I do have an open mind about it, so until they bust, it's hard to crucify them on the Monday following draft weekend.

As for you guys taking Austin... the player isn't bad at all, imo. I really liked him in fact. He's a guy I liked for the Cowboys in Round 2 and I mentioned that prior to our pick in that round. Unfortunately, our team didn't like him as much as I did. I was thinking of him as a 5 tech though... and honestly, he's not the best 5 tech fit... In the 4-3, that's where his fit and value truly is. When you guys got him, I was like "UGH... damn." Because now we have to face him! My only surprise is that you guys took a guy with the "bad character" label.

Foster was overrated on this forum by many. I for one was not a fan. I'd be surprised if he was anything more than an avg LB. I'll be surprised if he has a long career. Jernigan on the other hand is a guy I LOVE! Outside of Nicks, he's already your best receiver. Love him in the slot. I'm gonna compare his career to Dwyane Harris who we took in Round 6. Both have similar styles of play.

vs .
I love the Jernigan pick but no D, just no. He's not going to be any better of a slot WR than Smith already is. Manningham even with all his dumb moves still has put up big numbers the last 2 years. I don't know what it is with you calling WR's better than other before they have done nothing in the NFL.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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Sure, but if we don't have that consistent coaching what are you going to do? The Ravens are one of the only teams that comes to mind who were able to put together an elite d despite cycling through DC and they pulled it off through a tremendous talent level and great leadership from guys like Ray ray. Sure I'd rather just have Spags back for life, but as long as Coughlin's the HC we're not going to be able to hang onto a great DC for long, and the only way we can really combat that is by hiring less impressive DCs, who won't be able to leave for HC jobs, or by continuing to raise the talent level to lessen our need for a great DC.

The staff has to find a way to bring consistency on that side of the ball. The Bucs, Eagles and Steelers did it for a long time. The Steelers are still doing it with LeBeau there. That's a HUGE part of their success. That side of the ball is stable!

We need to hire someone with no intention of bring a HC. Someone who did that already and now realizes that is not his strength. Another thing is they need to stop hiring flat out bad DCs. Look at this list.

Lynn
Lewis
Spags
Sheridan
Fewell

Lynn, Lewis, and Sheridan were terrible! Can we stop hiring lemons and actually bring in good coordinators? That's why I said it doesn't matter how much talent you bring if the system is flawed to begin with. That means the system is dictating what the talent should do, where to line up, and how, and where to blitz. If the system is flawed, then your talented group would be out of position. They get beat, they get down on themselves and the system, and hence they don't buy in. That's when you get a whole side of the ball give up on the coach, like the defense did with Sheridan.

This is a huge problem. If Fewell gets a HCing job next year, we are back to square 1 again, having to hire a new DC and implement a new system.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Fewell has been bad. One of the problem with having a successful defense is that the DC's are going to looked at as head coaches. What else can we do about that?
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Old 05-03-2011, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Fewell fell off a bit after the bye week. He went to a lot more Tampa coverage and he didn't switch up his blitzes and offenses figured him out.

He's not a blitzing coordinator. He has some blitzes, but the great blitzing coordinators can cook up new blitz packages each week. They cater their defense around attacking protection schemes. That's what Rex does. He designs his blitzes and his defense around attacking protection schemes.

Fewell isn't that guy. He's a Tampa guy. He's about coverage more than blitzing. Zone coverage in particular. He's not the best fit for our personnel.

However, he's not a terrible DC either. He's solid. He's just not the right "fit" if you will for what our defense should be doing.

Let's see what he does this year. We have more than enough talent to be a top 5 defense in the league. But Fewell has to do a better job of drawing up blitzes and be more aggressive.

Especially with our secondary. If our secondary is healthy, and if KP can elevate his game after a year post microfracture surgery, then we have no excuse not to bring the heat.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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guys, how we going to stop DEZ,MILES, JONES, AND MURRAY? We're ******.

BTW, good draft for you guys this year.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Vick2Jackson View Post
guys, how we going to stop DEZ,MILES, JONES, AND MURRAY? We're ******.

BTW, good draft for you guys this year.
Dez- Corey Webster/Prince our two best man to man corners. Good physical matchup bc of their size + speed + fluidity

Miles- Corey Webster/Prince same reasoning

Jones + Murray - both are speedsters that aren't very good inside the tackles, having linebackers that can keep them from turning the corner will be crucial but even then we have 5 amazingly adept tacklers in our secondary.

so how are you going to defend Nicks, Smith, Manningham, Boss, Jernigan with the DB's you have? it'll be tough especially with Mikell maybe leaving and no clearcut starter at FS or CB2
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Dez- Corey Webster/Prince our two best man to man corners. Good physical matchup bc of their size + speed + fluidity

Miles- Corey Webster/Prince same reasoning

Jones + Murray - both are speedsters that aren't very good inside the tackles, having linebackers that can keep them from turning the corner will be crucial but even then we have 5 amazingly adept tacklers in our secondary.

so how are you going to defend Nicks, Smith, Manningham, Boss, Jernigan with the DB's you have? it'll be tough especially with Mikell maybe leaving and no clearcut starter at FS or CB2
Dez is Dallas' best receiver IMO. He's unbelievable. I don't know if Prince can handle him. And wasn't it Webster who Dez embarassed last time you guys played?

Miles same thing.. top 8 WR. You're counting on a rookie? You see what Blackmon did to him? Imagine what Miles would do... Don't know much about Webster.

Jones+Murray are very alike. Who are your linebackers? Hopefully theyre pretty athletic to do what you just explained... and I think Murray is underestimated between the tackles. JMO.

Lastly, that O you have is good. I still think Dallas' is much better... definitely top 2 in the division, though. I'd be more scared of them. Don't know how we're going to stop either of you guys TBH. Dez and Nicks will physically abuse Samuel.... Patterson is ****... Jarret at SS? Fail. Nate Allen is our best man in the secondary. We'll see. Its going to be tough for us this year. And Washington.. LOL. The laughing stock.
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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when did Dez embarass anyone in our secondary? like when he had 7 total catches in the 2 games against us? oh, ok.

the only "embarassing" Dex did to us was on special teams. the kid's talented, but it's getting old with literally everyone riding his jock.
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Dez is Dallas' best receiver IMO. He's unbelievable. I don't know if Prince can handle him.
with a broken ankle last season idk if dez is 100%, even so prince has the tools to go head to head with him and limit him quite a bit, definitely not close to the numbers that he had against us last season.


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And wasn't it Webster who Dez embarassed last time you guys played?
No, that was Terrel Thomas who was laid out to dry for most of that going 1 on 1 with him. Thomas's forte isn't man to man and that was shown in many games this past year.

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Miles same thing.. top 8 WR. You're counting on a rookie? You see what Blackmon did to him? Imagine what Miles would do... Don't know much about Webster.
I would love to count on a rookie if its prince, with a DL like we have and OL that they have their passes will have to be relatively quick and if we're putting him 1 on 1 with miles he will be able to keep him from doing much especially with a safety over the top which is very likely what we would do in such a situation.

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Jones+Murray are very alike. Who are your linebackers? Hopefully theyre pretty athletic to do what you just explained... and I think Murray is underestimated between the tackles. JMO.
Right now we have Boley, Wilkinson, and Greg Jones as the only three that would be able to cut them off from turning the corner with ease, but i think we go after a lb of that fit in FA.


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Lastly, that O you have is good. I still think Dallas' is much better... definitely top 2 in the division, though. I'd be more scared of them. Don't know how we're going to stop either of you guys TBH. Dez and Nicks will physically abuse Samuel.... Patterson is ****... Jarret at SS? Fail. Nate Allen is our best man in the secondary. We'll see. Its going to be tough for us this year. And Washington.. LOL. The laughing stock.
Their line doesn't scare me one bit, although they have a stable of runningbacks they dont look to be a team fit to run the ball and enforce their will on us. Their receivers (Roy being inconsistent, Dez coming back from injury, but Miles is sold) are all good, but i think with the 4 corners that have starting ability and the rest of our defense with the exception of our LB's (right now b4 FA) have the capability to keep them from killing us.

its always a shootout, but with our offense coming back strong it looks like (smith had a bad injury the end of the year and most of our WR's got injured last year yet still produced).

Nate Allen tore his ACL right? yeah that secondary looks pretty bad, you might be in the bidding for Nnamdi though.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:37 AM    (permalink
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I love what the Giants did with Amukamara, Jernigan and Brewer. I don't know if Brewer played well enough to warrant a second round grade, but he's got the physical ability to be worth well higher than a 4th round pick. Amukamara speaks for himself and every team needs those speedy game-breaking athletes like Jernigan. I don't like Austin. I haven't seen much of North Carolina, but I never really saw him stand out like a recruit of his stature should. I like the Jones pick, he screams Giants linebacker to me. Sash and Scott should be good depth/special teams guys.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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with a broken ankle last season idk if dez is 100%
That injury happened in like November. Unless there is a game within the next few weeks I don't know why this is even relevant. But that being said, the Giants have the best secondary in the division by a long shot and it's not even close. They are the only team that should be able to slow up some of the high passing attacks if they are healthy.


Everyone else is gonna get torched and need to score points.
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