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Old 01-28-2011, 07:08 AM    (permalink
luckyjackaubrey
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'although I don't think BB views WR as a huge need'

I agree with this. We have a team that already proved we can beat most teams with our passing game. Getting past the Jets and teams like the Ravens and Steelers is the next goal. We can do that offensively in one of two ways.

1. draft up for a WR talent that can challenge Revis and Cromartie talent for talent or add another facet to our attack that forces them to cover the whole field. If we had a back that could attack the edge a bit more their gameplan that beat us would be suspect. They kept clogging the middle of the field with safeties and LBs to take away the inside routes. A back with a good combo of size/ speed would have forced them to stop cheating and honor the run. BJGE gets you the 3-4 up the middle and Woody is shifty but his size is a limitation. Teams think "pass" when he is in the backfield and although he did some damage running the ball, he isn't that back that makes teams feel the need to honor the run and not cheat into pass coverage.

The early picks should be focused on the defensive front seven, specifically the edges, and the o-line.

Who is the mid round back who brings a size-speed combo (little more on the speed side) make up to the table that makes sense for us to target? I would be thinking high upside but a few question marks. Maybe someone who catches the ball well but not a great pass protector ( he's gotta have some flaws as a mid rounder, no?). With our multiple TE looks we can cover some poor blocking skills by keeping Gronk in on occasion.

I like the idea of adding a backfield weapon that adds another area of the field to worry about and takes focus off of our downfield game. What team can cover the whole field? Welker and Branch's outside possesion/RAC game, Gronk and Hernandez stretching the middle, one the kids running deep routes and a balanced three headed running game that goes inside and out? It won't be one guy providing the dynamic overall running attack but three guys that do three different things still needs to be accounted for in an overall game plan.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by luckyjackaubrey View Post
'although I don't think BB views WR as a huge need'

I agree with this. We have a team that already proved we can beat most teams with our passing game. Getting past the Jets and teams like the Ravens and Steelers is the next goal. We can do that offensively in one of two ways.

1. draft up for a WR talent that can challenge Revis and Cromartie talent for talent or add another facet to our attack that forces them to cover the whole field. If we had a back that could attack the edge a bit more their gameplan that beat us would be suspect. They kept clogging the middle of the field with safeties and LBs to take away the inside routes. A back with a good combo of size/ speed would have forced them to stop cheating and honor the run. BJGE gets you the 3-4 up the middle and Woody is shifty but his size is a limitation. Teams think "pass" when he is in the backfield and although he did some damage running the ball, he isn't that back that makes teams feel the need to honor the run and not cheat into pass coverage.

The early picks should be focused on the defensive front seven, specifically the edges, and the o-line.

Who is the mid round back who brings a size-speed combo (little more on the speed side) make up to the table that makes sense for us to target? I would be thinking high upside but a few question marks. Maybe someone who catches the ball well but not a great pass protector ( he's gotta have some flaws as a mid rounder, no?). With our multiple TE looks we can cover some poor blocking skills by keeping Gronk in on occasion.

I like the idea of adding a backfield weapon that adds another area of the field to worry about and takes focus off of our downfield game. What team can cover the whole field? Welker and Branch's outside possesion/RAC game, Gronk and Hernandez stretching the middle, one the kids running deep routes and a balanced three headed running game that goes inside and out? It won't be one guy providing the dynamic overall running attack but three guys that do three different things still needs to be accounted for in an overall game plan.
I would take Demarco Murray in the 3rd if he falls. His durablity is a question but he would be worth it in the 3rd or later. If he's gone I wouldn't mind Kendall Hunter either.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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I've been trying to figure out this year's running backs. It's clear that we need at least one, most likely two, RBs this offseason. Fred Taylor is most likely done, the same can be said for Sammy Morris (and maybe even Kevin Faulk). So there's a hole, but not as big as some might think. Lawfirm and Woody showed this year that they can carry the running game without much help which is nice, but it doesn't help if either of them gets injured. We won't spend a high draft pick on a RB, I'm pretty sure of that. But from the fourth and down I could see it happening. I'd rank the RBs from the fourth round like this (from a Patriots perspective):

Darren Evans & Dion Lewis (tie):
As EE has pointed out on more than one occasion, Evans had a great year in 2008 before tearing his ACL and sitting out in 2009. He bounced back this season, however, and should hear his name getting called in the late rounds. He has nice size and moves pretty well for a guy his size. Looks like a good fit here. As some of you might know I'm pretty high on Dion Lewis. He's the epitome of a Patriot: He could barely get a scholarship, was deemed to slow, etc etc. He has a chip on his shoulder and it won't go away any time soon. He might not have great long speed, but he does have a very good burst, good hands and excellent vision. I think both these guy could start in the NFL.

Jackquizz Rodgers:
Sort of like Dion Lewis, he just doesn't have the same upside imo. Both of them remind me a bit of Ray Rice though. He's a late round pick right now I think and might never be a starter. However, he runs pretty hard for a guy his size and catches the ball well.

Bilal Powell & Delone Carter:
Both have good size and adequate speed. I am a bit worried about both of them though despite not having any reason for it. Right now I see both of them as nice depth players but not as someone I'd feel comfortable starting.

Damien Berry & Roy Helu Jr.:
Berry is a better runner than given credit for. He doesn't have the speed that Graig Cooper has, but he consistently gets good yards on his runs. I would compare him to Lawfirm actually. Not special in any way but very consistent. Roy Helu has nice size and I was actually surprised with his speed. I could see him finding a role in the NFL although he might not be a starter.

I don't think that all these players are destined to end up starters/stars in the NFL, but I do think most of them have the ability to develop into a starter. All of them fits into the system too. All we need is for BB to pull the trigger.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Anthony Allen would fit in really well with The Law Firm and Woodhead. He can do everything. Could be like Sammy Morris when Sammy was producing for the Pats.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Anthony Allen is the the type of oversized runningback we like to run out as a FB. I agree there. With Sammy Morris no longer being the ball carrier he is, I wouldn't mind taking a look at him in the later rounds. I really wanted to see him pass protect better than he did this week in Mobile though. Didn't look entirely comfortable doing it and obviously that's a real problem in this offense. Good burst and leg drive, but he runs high. Not a real problem, but something to note.

I've been a big fan of Roy Helu for a long time as well. Really underrated athlete. Showed a lot better ability breaking tackles this week and was really one of the conversation pieces of the entire Senior Bowl. His stock is rising and rightfully so.

Taiwan Jones is a guy I have some real interest in out of Eastern Washington as well. He accelerates faster than anyone perhaps and has fantastic long speed. Not a tough between the tackles runner at the next level, but people said the same thing about Chris Johnson. He's more than willing to go inside, it's just a matter of if he can sustain that level of success in the NFL.

Shane Vereen is flying waaaay too high under the radar right now and I hope it stays that way because if he's there in the third round I'll rage if we don't take him. Very fast, very quick and he's one of those Cal backs who has received great coaching. Knows how to pass protect, knows how to catch the ball. Really good technical runner.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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#17 - Aldon Smith, OLB, Missouri --
#28 - Muhammed Willkerson, DE, Temple --
#33 - Mike Pouncey, C, Florda --
#60 - Mark Herzlich, LB, Boston College --
#74 - Ahmad Black, S, Florida --
#92 - Jalil Brown, CB, Colorado --
4th Round - Niles Paul, WR, Nebraska --
5th Round - Delone Carter, RB, Syracuse --
6th Round - Scott Lutrus, LB, Connecticut --

Did a new mock draft to gauge a realistic draft for the Patriots and I think this is a fair draft that is real possible and addresses all of our needs and pretty well.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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That would be a very nice draft, but I'm not so sure Wilkerson is a good value in the first round.
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I love that draft so much because I think it helps us in the secondary alot and for not top picks. As those guys will be great in the pros for 3rd round picks.

Herzlich as time goes on will develop into 3/4 of his old self he will be a very solid pro, the kid was sick before cancer. Pouncey is another Florida kid who helps our interior line.

Wilkerson and Smith target our 2 biggest needs in the 1st. May be raw and bad picks but the idea is there that we should go DE and OLB with our first 2 picks.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I love that draft so much because I think it helps us in the secondary alot and for not top picks. As those guys will be great in the pros for 3rd round picks.

Herzlich as time goes on will develop into 3/4 of his old self he will be a very solid pro, the kid was sick before cancer. Pouncey is another Florida kid who helps our interior line.

Wilkerson and Smith target our 2 biggest needs in the 1st. May be raw and bad picks but the idea is there that we should go DE and OLB with our first 2 picks.
I like the draft and all but Im really not sold on the Herzlich pick. Really he's not a great fit at OLB in the 34 and Im not sure how much, if any an upgrade he would be on what we already have at ILB. Swap Herzlich with someone like Marcus Gilbert and I like it though. Although just nitpicking but I prefer Rashad Carmichael to Jalil Brown.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Herzlich in a text book 3-4 ILB. More than capable of coming on the blitz, excellent in coverage, good against the run. Complete linebacker. Has the size and ability to do it too. So long as we hit on a pass rusher first, no complaints from me. Herzy is more than capable of playing outside in situations that call for it too.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Herzlich in a text book 3-4 ILB. More than capable of coming on the blitz, excellent in coverage, good against the run. Complete linebacker. Has the size and ability to do it too. So long as we hit on a pass rusher first, no complaints from me. Herzy is more than capable of playing outside in situations that call for it too.
My worry is though, where are his snaps coming from, and at who's expense? Mayo and Spikes look good inside and if we hit on a pass rusher early then we would have that player and Cunningham outside. He's a good player, potential for being a great player and a nice story but realistically I wouldn't take him before the fourth due to lack of need, and by that time he will be long gone.

If we hit on a pass rusher then I would prefer we go DE, OG/C, OT, WR and RB. Unless a player of real value starts falling I wouldn't go off that list. And where he is now, Herzlich is not a great value in the second round IMO
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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I do agree with that. I would just love to see him here. Think he's an awfully good scheme fit too with his versatility.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Herzlich in a text book 3-4 ILB. More than capable of coming on the blitz, excellent in coverage, good against the run. Complete linebacker. Has the size and ability to do it too. So long as we hit on a pass rusher first, no complaints from me. Herzy is more than capable of playing outside in situations that call for it too.
A textbook 3-4 ILB on a team with Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes at ILB? That'd be a mistake IMO. I think in our defense Herzlich would project as a somewhat better version of Rob Ninkovich but not the impact pass rusher we need. I love Mark and wish him success wherever he goes, but I don't think it's really the right pick for New England, regardless of whether or not he's the perfect Patriot.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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I do agree with that. I would just love to see him here. Think he's an awfully good scheme fit too with his versatility.
It seems almost too good a fit. Went to college locally, already done work with Tedy Bruschi, smart, blue collar worker, great schematic fit and a great back story. Seems like a Patriot on paper. But at the minute I don't think BB could justify the selection unless he fell further than expected. I really hope the guy succeeds though...unless he goes to the Jets, then screw him if he does lol
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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I don't think finding snaps would be as large of a problem as one might think. Cunningham, Ninkovich, and Spikes really aren't as complete as Herzlich is. With as much subbing in and out as we do and the many sub-packages we have, it's doable.
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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He'd be a 2-down ILB and a nickel OLB - my best guess.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Just cause you have 4 other great LB's doesn't mean they are the only ones that play.

Spikes, Guyton, Fletcher, Mayo, Cunningham, Ninkovich, Banta-Cain are guys that played at LB and I probably missed someone. But the point is you constantsly have guys going in and out.

Spikes, Guyton, Fletcher, Mayo, Cunningham, Ninkovich, Smith, Herzlich would give us great LB corps, along with great ST contributions in there. Great work ethic, and make our front seven set for years, if we improve our DLine also. I don't see what's wrong with using a late 2nd round pick on a guy that had top 10 talent, and lost a step or two cause of a serious illness. He has great work ethic and character and if he goes back to 3/4 that skill he had. He will still be a great player for years.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Brooks Reed is exactly the kind of guy we pass on but shouldn't. I really, REALLY like this guys game at the next level in a 3-4. He's going to be able to get after the passer.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:37 PM    (permalink
proshoota25
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wow hankerson is really impressing. hes the type of receiver we need i believe. we may have to grab him at the end of the first.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Panthers pick would be better for my palette.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:43 PM    (permalink
proshoota25
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ive been saying this all week for the pats hankerson >>>>>>> titus young in terms of fit.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Absolutely. Speed is nice, but I much prefer a guy who can challenge good man coverage and beat the press for us right now.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Absolutely. Speed is nice, but I much prefer a guy who can challenge good man coverage and beat the press for us right now.
right alot of the pats fans have been saying young. i dont see it. young is like all of our other receivers. hankerson is physical, strong, and is much taller with deceptive speed.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Plays much bigger than the 6'2 ish he is too. Very good all around receiver.
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Old 01-29-2011, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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With Mankins all but gone now, I think Pouncey at 28 to you guys is a lock unless the Steelers trade up
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