2011 Patriots Draft - Page 13

Razor · 01-31-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Im not so sure. I think he could be a very good RT in our scheme. I think his athleticism is underrated and he has very good length and functional strength. Him and Vollmer would be a nice set of bookends IMO

I agree with this. He can be abused by speed rushers, especially in the NFL. But I still think he could be a well above average RT in the NFL. Plus, he's a great ******* run blocker. He just takes his opponent out, much like our current starting tackles do.

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 10:27 AM

Carimi being abusable by speed rushers is largely a myth. I wouldn't be comfortable with telling him to protect Brady's blindside against Dwight Freeney because that will never be his strength...but he went up against guys who were supposedly much better athlete than him all week in the Senior Bowl and not once lost a battle because of his feet.

AntoinCD · 01-31-2011, 10:28 AM

I love him. i think DE, OLB and interior offensive line are bigger concerns right now but I would not be pissed if we took him in the first, especially at 28

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 10:34 AM

I think he's moved himself out of that area though. Carimi has a chance to go top 20 depending on what teams picking a tackle are looking for. He's probably off our board just because he's not the kind of guy who can get out to the second level on the screen pass. I don't necessarily agree with that logic, but it probably keeps him off our board.

FlyingElvis · 01-31-2011, 10:37 AM

I think it's safe to say Kerrigan is a top 15 pick now. He was a beast in pass rush and he looked excellent setting the edge against the rush. I doubt he makes it to our 17. I'm thinking Jordan is unlikely to be there either. Mayock was consistently saying 20-30 on him but that seems highly unlikely to me, given the increase in the number of teams running a 34.

I still think it's possible we see Jordan at 17 so I'm thinking Jordan / Hankerson as our round 1 picks.

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 10:48 AM

Jordan is still in play somehow despite being the best player at the Senior Bowl. Really flew under the radar for a long time and might not be able to make that massive jump up to the Top 10 that some people(including me) were projecting. He's an interesting selection for us really. He's not a classic five technique like Cameron Heyward is. He's more athletic guy who would do REALLY well in a one gap 3-4, but still could be a major factor in our system both as gap to gap player as well as a pass rusher. I'm still not sold on him as the best system fit in the world but he's clearly the most talented athletically out of all of the five technique prospects this year and that certainly counts for something. I would be really excited about that pick assuming we were able to land an OLB. One thing that was sort of lost about Richard Seymour in his prime is how good of a pass rusher he was. 8 sacks a year was expected and a ton of pressures a long the way. Jordan could potentially bring that type of pass rush production to the table for us.

I do agree about Kerrigan though, we can pretty much kiss him goodbye. It would take him falling at this point to be there at pick #17. Could well happen, but I don't think we can sit there and say it's a slam dunk at this point. I'm completely comfortable taking him to play linebacker at 255 though and that was a nice surprise this week.

BradysKnee · 01-31-2011, 12:04 PM

I think there is a very good possibility we trade up.
I don't know that we have the roster space for 10+ rookies in camp.
I could see us trading up with Dallas and handing them our later 2nd.

descendency · 01-31-2011, 05:41 PM

I want to see the combine (the "least important event of the year") before I make any 'final' decisions, because I am seriously curious where some of these 10 yard splits, 20 yard SS, and long jumps will be (all highly indicative of important on field measurables).

Nalej · 01-31-2011, 05:46 PM

Is it April yet? Damn. Friggin' Super Bowl hasn't even passed... Boooo

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 05:48 PM

We've still got months of this stuff haha. Starting to really be draft season now though.

Nalej · 01-31-2011, 05:57 PM

It's going to be a long couple of months... sooo... discusion

Would C.Jordan be a good fit on our base defense?
He seems to be the ideal specimen/skill for our sub/nickel package UT ala M.Wright
He's a penetrating havoc creating monster... but would he be able to play our 2-gap style in our odd front?
I'd like him regardless bc we play so much of our sub-packages that they're pretty much starters anyways.
Just wondering if you think if you guys think he can not only play in our odd front but actually earn a starting job.

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 06:02 PM

I don't think he would have ANY problem earning time and starting here. It is an interesting fit though. He's a rare type of player that could realistically project anywhere along a defensive line sans NT. I'm going to have go back and watch some more tape on him..but he has no issue being a gap to gap player despite his athleticism. We play nickel so much and he would probably play DE there too and be good in that role as well.

Nalej · 01-31-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

I don't think he would have ANY problem earning time and starting here. It is an interesting fit though. He's a rare type of player that could realistically project anywhere along a defensive line sans NT. I'm going to have go back and watch some more tape on him..but he has no issue being a gap to gap player despite his athleticism. We play nickel so much and he would probably play DE there too and be good in that role as well.

yea, like I said, even if BB didn't like him in our base D... he'd be a monster in our sub packages and we play that half the time anyways so it doesn't really matter.

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 06:44 PM

Still, we should be able to base package more. That's a sign of weakness if anything. For that reason, I'm still debating if Cameron Heyward is a better fit.

descendency · 01-31-2011, 06:48 PM

Long arms, big hands, strong. Could add to his base.

He can play any/either scheme with some coaching.

Nalej · 01-31-2011, 08:11 PM

I absolutely love C.Heyward for us. This is exactly who BB wants in terms of build.
With us, I think he has the potential to be Seymour 2.0. I'd love to have him on the team

ElectricEye · 01-31-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I absolutely love C.Heyward for us. This is exactly who BB wants in terms of build.
With us, I think he has the potential to be Seymour 2.0. I'd love to have him on the team

I agree. That easy fit would be hard to go away from. But we've been looking to get more athletic lately and Jordan would be a very bold move towards that direction.

descendency · 02-01-2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalej

I absolutely love C.Heyward for us. This is exactly who BB wants in terms of build.
With us, I think he has the potential to be Seymour 2.0. I'd love to have him on the team

Except Seymour could rush the passer.

AntoinCD · 02-01-2011, 02:59 AM

Mike Reiss reported the other day that we played in some kind of sub package 57% of the time. This will not go down well in the offseason review for Belichick. With the fact that he stresses the importance of being a three down player, sometimes a four down player(as with McCourty last year) I don't think he will draft a player highly if he doesn't believe he can be a fixture in our base defense. A lot of the problems caused were through injuries, especially along the defensive line, however I believe he will target someone who can make an impact on any play regardless of down or distance.

This is why I believe he will pass on some DE/OLB tweeners such as Von Miller/Robert Quinn if they were available. The 5 techniques are interesting though. Both Jordan and Watt don't seem the type to play in the 2 gap defense but I think both are more than capable. Heyward is a perfect fit and next IMO would be Ballard. It would be interesting to see if BB overdrafts a guy like Ballard at the end of the first due to his fit.

At OLB I see the early options being Kerrigan and Houston. Aldon Smith needs to prove he can hold the point of attack before BB would touch him in the middle of the first.

nepg · 02-01-2011, 07:34 AM

Von Miller would be a 3-down player for the Pats. He looks pretty comfortable in pass coverage already and can be moved all around a defense to create mismatches a la Clay Matthews. Houston and Kerrigan would be 2-down players for at least a few seasons.

descendency · 02-01-2011, 07:46 AM

Miller will be dominated by athletic tackles in the running game.

Besides, there is no way the Patriots get Miller now. His stock exploded. Robert Quinn is the best the Patriots can hope for. They have to hope Kerrigan, Watt, Miller, etc go up and force guys like Quinn down.

Razor · 02-01-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Miller will be dominated by athletic tackles in the running game.

Besides, there is no way the Patriots get Miller now. His stock exploded. Robert Quinn is the best the Patriots can hope for. They have to hope Kerrigan, Watt, Miller, etc go up and force guys like Quinn down.

That's exactly why I don't like him in NE. I think he could be a beast in other 3-4 systems where the primary responsibility is to rush the passer. But he's not nearly physical enough to set the edge in the running game, which is very important to BB (since he's always talking about it I guess). i don't think we have a shot at Quinn either. He's going to blow up the Scouting Combine and solidify himself as a top 5-8 player I think. I could still see us getting Kerrigan though. If you think about it, who's going to go higher than Kerrigan?

Da'Quan Bowers
Robert Quinn
Von Miller
Cam Jordan
Aldon Smith

So for Kerrigan to be off the board one in every three (actually more) would have to be a DE, and that's not even counting DTs (Dareus & Fairley) and QBs (Newton & Gabbert (Mallett & Locker too)). That a major run on DL and imo not very likely. We will have shot at drafting an impact player, BB just needs to pull the trigger this time. I'm actually starting to expect him to move up if somebody like Quinn falls out of the top 10. Althoug BB has a habit of letting me down on draft day....

AntoinCD · 02-01-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

Von Miller would be a 3-down player for the Pats. He looks pretty comfortable in pass coverage already and can be moved all around a defense to create mismatches a la Clay Matthews. Houston and Kerrigan would be 2-down players for at least a few seasons.

??? Im not sure how I can agree with any of this. Miller can rush the passer and drop into coverage. But can he take an OT on to set the edge in the running game? I really don't think he can.

As for Houston and Kerrigan I have full confidence that both are able to set the edge and have both proven to be able to rush the passer. Houston has also shown the ability to dorp into coverage.

ElectricEye · 02-01-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Except Seymour could rush the passer.

Heyward doesn't have any issues rushing the passer. Not sure how you could really say that even relative to Seymour. ****, he nearly eclipsed Sey's college career total last year. He's not the athlete Jordan is, but for a guy his size with his type of game he doesn't have any issues being a factor in the passing game.

descendency · 02-01-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Heyward doesn't have any issues rushing the passer. Not sure how you could really say that even relative to Seymour. ****, he nearly eclipsed Sey's college career total last year. He's not the athlete Jordan is, but for a guy his size with his type of game he doesn't have any issues being a factor in the passing game.

Richard Seymour was the nickel UT. If Heyward does that in NE, I'll eat my words. I wouldn't mind Heyward, but I wouldn't take him at 17. I'd love to have him and Robert Quinn (or Von Miller maybe . . . which I think is worth the risk at times)

I think Cameron Jordan is closer (as an overall player) to Seymour than Heyward is, but in terms of run stopping and absorbing blockers (two very important things) I think Heyward is closer.