Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > New England Patriots Team Forum

New England Patriots Team Forum Discuss the Pats

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-01-2011, 04:31 PM    (permalink
sportslover
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 79
Reputation: 3950
sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.
Default

If there is a 3-4 DE we take at #17, I would only want Cameron Jordan, but beyond that at 28 and beyond, guys like JJ Watt, Cameron Heyward, Muhammed Wilkerson all make sense for our scheme and the value of the pick there.

I really hope we go OLB to start out, and then DE, cause I feel the top of the draft is more DE/OLB prospect heavy then later on.

Combos that would be good for me for DE and OLB in this draft.
Jordan/Houston
Jordan/Reed
Quinn/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt
Smith/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt
Kerrigan/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt
Miller/Heyward or Wilkerson or Watt

I'd say the 2 most possible out of that group are the Smith and Kerrigan ones. Or maybe the Jordan/Houston or Reed combos.

Another thought, although we love mocking the Pats -- I don't think we will be keepign both 28 and 33 and drafting there, I think at least 1 of our top 3 picks gets traded to move up or down or into next year.
sportslover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 05:34 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm all about Jordan/Reed right now. I really like Heyward and think he's a very complete DE, but if we get a shot at Jordan we have to take him. Watt is still very much in play for me too, but he's been overtaken by a few guys since the Senior Bowl. He'll have a chance to make that up at the combine.

Pretty confident we can get some real player in here if we sit with those picks though.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 11:47 PM    (permalink
Nalej
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,584
Reputation: 1144786
Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I really can't see R.Quinn dropping to us but man, it'd be a dream come true.
I update my mock again... with that very same scenerio happening...
__________________
-Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

Nalej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:10 AM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

It's in play right now but very much an outside thing. We may well pass on him if he's there too due to character concerns.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:17 AM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,577
Reputation: 2155248
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

That's pretty much been my thinking. Even if Quinn fell to the Pats, would they not also pass? The only time I ever remember them biting on someone that everyone else passed on was Wilfork.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:20 AM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Yeah, something tells me the front office would not be cool with a guy who directly let down his team with his actions off the field. It's the old Cameron Newton debate on a smaller scale.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:42 AM    (permalink
Nalej
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,584
Reputation: 1144786
Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

...and Meriweather. Remember, he was part of the Mia/FIU incident.
We still grabbed him... I think BB has shown he'll grab someone regardless of character concern.
C.Dillon and R.Moss can be added to that list...
BB trusts the leadership in the locker room to fix any and all problems of that nature (character issues)
__________________
-Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

Nalej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:49 AM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I would want us to do our homework on him for sure though and check out every little detail about him. I want us to know what brand of toothpaste the dude uses if we consider drafting him.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 01:11 AM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,577
Reputation: 2155248
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
...and Meriweather. Remember, he was part of the Mia/FIU incident.
We still grabbed him... I think BB has shown he'll grab someone regardless of character concern.
C.Dillon and R.Moss can be added to that list...
BB trusts the leadership in the locker room to fix any and all problems of that nature (character issues)
Meriweather didn't really slip in the draft. He went about where or a slightly earlier than he was projected.

Dillon and Moss were free agents who were disgruntled because they were on **** teams.
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 10:34 AM    (permalink
sportslover
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 79
Reputation: 3950
sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.sportslover is so money.
Default

I thought I'd make a list of players that I think the Patriots may target either via the draft or UFA for all positions:

QB Andy Dalton, TCU
QB Greg McElroy, Alabama
QB TJ Yates, North Carolina
QB Ricki Stanzi, Iowa
QB Nathan Enderle, Idaho

RB Mark Ingram, Alabama
RB Mikel LeShoure, Illinois
RB Demarco Murray, Oklahoma
RB Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State
RB Daniel Thomas, Kansas State
RB Graig Cooper, Miami (FL)
RB Evan Royster, Penn State
RB Bilal Powell, Louisville
RB Roy Helu Jr, Nebraska
RB ANthony Allen, Georgia Tech
RB Delone Carter, Syracuse
RB John Clay, Wisconsin
RB Alex Green, Hawaii

WR AJ Green, Georgia
WR Julio Jones, Alabama
WR Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh
WR Torrey Smith, Maryland
WR Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL)
WR Titus Young, Boise State
WR Greg Little, North Carolina
WR Niles Paul, Nebraska
WR Cecil Shorts, Mount Union
WR Vincent Brown, San Deigo State
WR Austin Pettis, Boise State

OT Anthony Castonzo, Boston College
OT Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin
OT Ben Ijalana, Villanova
OT Lee ZIemba, Auburn
OT Marcus Gilbert, Florida
OT James Brewer, Indiana
OT Joseph Barksdale, LSU

OG Marcus Cannon, TCU
OG Rodney Hudson, Florida State
OG Mike Pouncey, Florida
OG Danny Watkins, Baylor
OG John Moffit, Wisconsin
OG Zach Hurd, Connecticut
C Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State

DE Adrian Clayborn, Iowa
DE Cameron Jordan, California
DE JJ Watt, Wisconsin
DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio State
DE Marcell Dareus, Alabama
DE Muhammed WIlkerson, Temple
DE Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson
DE Lawrence GUy, Arizona State

NT Phil Taylor, Baylor
NT Stephen Paea, Oregon State

OLB Robert Quinn, North Carolina
OLB Aldon Smith, Missouri
OLB Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
OLB Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma
OLB Brooks Reed, Arizona
OLB Jabaal SHeard, Pittsburgh
OLB Cliff Matthews, South Carolina
OLB Sam Acho, Texas
OLB Von Miller, Texas A&M
OLB Akeem Ayers, UCLA
OLB Justin Houston, Georgia
OLB KJ Wright, Mississippi State
OLB Tom Keiser, Stanford

ILB Martez Wilson, Illinois
ILB Mark Herzlich, Boston College
ILB Kelvin Sheppard, LSU
ILB Scott Lutrus, Connecticut

CB Patrick Peterson, LSU
CB Prince Amukamara, Nebraska
CB Jimmy Smith, Colorado
CB Jalil Brown, Colorado
CB Kendrick Burney, North Carolina
CB Johnny Patrick, Louisville
CB Shareece Wright, USC
CB Justin Rogers, Richmond

S Ahmad Black, Florida
S Da'Norris Searcy, North Carolina
S Quinton Carter, Oklahoma
S Shiloh Keo, Idaho
S Rahim Moore, UCLA
sportslover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
Nalej
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,584
Reputation: 1144786
Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Meriweather didn't really slip in the draft. He went about where or a slightly earlier than he was projected.

Dillon and Moss were free agents who were disgruntled because they were on **** teams.
I didn't say Meriweather slipped... I said he was part of that fight and had ? marks about his character going into the draft.
Point is that we took guys who were labled with character issues.
BB trusts his locker room to rectifiy any issues. So if you have talent to contribute, he'll sign you
__________________
-Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

Nalej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:27 AM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 8,287
Reputation: 1008575
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
...and Meriweather. Remember, he was part of the Mia/FIU incident.
Obviously, you don't want fights, but going out to fight with your team-mates with how that brawl was going down, I as a coach could understand it.

That's not the same as disqualifying yourself because you felt you should be paid and are above the team.
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.
descendency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:31 AM    (permalink
Nalej
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,584
Reputation: 1144786
Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nalej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

My point still is... I don't think BB puts too much emphsis on character issues.
He does his homework and then trusts that his team and captains keep everyone in line.
If BB passes on R.Quinn, I doubt it'll be because of character issues, it'll be bc BB doesn't think he can contribute to the team the way he wants him to
__________________
-Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

Nalej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: What do you do when a doo-doo chump punk points a finger like a stump?
Posts: 9,662
Reputation: 2066468
FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalej View Post
My point still is... I don't think BB puts too much emphsis on character issues.
He does his homework and then trusts that his team and captains keep everyone in line.
If BB passes on R.Quinn, I doubt it'll be because of character issues, it'll be bc BB doesn't think he can contribute to the team the way he wants him to
I disagree. If Quinn is too selfish to put the team first, that's enough for BB to pass. I get what you're saying and think the locker room / culture can shore up minor questionmarks / character issues, but "team first" is a must for anyone to make BB's board.
__________________

Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs
FlyingElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 12:30 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Most of the guys we've brought in because we have a strong locker room presence have been veterans who have seen the other side of things too.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 06:05 AM    (permalink
Razor
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 3,459
Reputation: 771143
Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Razor is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Uh oh....

Belichick: Trade offers for top picks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Belichick
"We've already had a couple offers on them," Belichick said. "We'll see what happens. We'll do whatever we can to improve the team, whether that's move up, move down, or stay where we are, and just try to add more players and more depth to our roster."
Ugh... I've got a bad feeling about this now. Of course he'll move down. After all, it's the right choice theoretically (if you look at it as an american option with uncertain payoff). But still, I'd love for us to trade up and get Quinn/Smith(/Green).
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
I'm a whiny little kunt. Feel sorry for me as I go masturbate to a picture of my mom dressed as a teletubby.

Last edited by Razor : 02-03-2011 at 06:07 AM.
Razor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 08:53 AM    (permalink
proshoota25
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warwick, RI
Posts: 3,807
Reputation: 151529
proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.proshoota25 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Uh oh....

Belichick: Trade offers for top picks



Ugh... I've got a bad feeling about this now. Of course he'll move down. After all, it's the right choice theoretically (if you look at it as an american option with uncertain payoff). But still, I'd love for us to trade up and get Quinn/Smith(/Green).
yeah it would be sweeet to trade up. i was surprised that teams are ALREADY calling, its still quite early in the process. I don't think it really means anything this early anyway.
__________________

Thanks to BoneKrusher for this amazing sig!

Go Gators/Pats/Celts/Red Sox!
proshoota25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 09:31 AM    (permalink
Don Vito
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston/Ole Miss
Posts: 8,920
Reputation: 1716595
Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Don Vito is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Jesus...it's only February and I already need to start thinking about how many times we are going to trade down.
Don Vito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 11:06 AM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: What do you do when a doo-doo chump punk points a finger like a stump?
Posts: 9,662
Reputation: 2066468
FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm not as concerned with the potential (inevitable) trade down as I thought I would be. It's really a value game. If we have a shot at a top talent like Jordan/Kerrigan that's one thing, but most mocks have those guys gone, and rightly so. I have no interest in sticking at 17 for a player that isn't a game breaker (OT / G) and less interest in taking a guy that we could still get at 21 or 22. I say 21 / 22 because the most likely scenario would be a trade down of half a dozen spots to add a 3rd-ish, while still leaving us with 2 1st round picks.

I would honestly prefer a trade up, though. Obviously, that's the least likely scenario, but moving up 5 spots or so to secure Kerrigan/Jordan would be so sweet.


Ok . . . each year you guys edumacate me on some finer detail of drafnikism . . . this year's topic:

What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?
__________________

Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs
FlyingElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 11:27 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,876
Reputation: 1705893
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
I'm not as concerned with the potential (inevitable) trade down as I thought I would be. It's really a value game. If we have a shot at a top talent like Jordan/Kerrigan that's one thing, but most mocks have those guys gone, and rightly so. I have no interest in sticking at 17 for a player that isn't a game breaker (OT / G) and less interest in taking a guy that we could still get at 21 or 22. I say 21 / 22 because the most likely scenario would be a trade down of half a dozen spots to add a 3rd-ish, while still leaving us with 2 1st round picks.

I would honestly prefer a trade up, though. Obviously, that's the least likely scenario, but moving up 5 spots or so to secure Kerrigan/Jordan would be so sweet.


Ok . . . each year you guys edumacate me on some finer detail of drafnikism . . . this year's topic:

What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?
I agree there. I have no desire to take a JJ Watt, Cameron Heyward etc at 17 if we can trade down 5 or 6 spots and get the same player.

As for the better fit.

When looking for a fit in BB's 2 gap defense what is needed is a player with good length and long arms. Basically they need to be able to play on the OT and be able to anchor against him in the run game at both sides and get off the block to make the tackle, ie stack and shed. In the pass game he needs to be able to stand the OT up and get inside him. However the main aim would be to keep the pass rushing OLB matched up against a TE or a chipping RB. Ideal player for this would be Richard Seymour. 6'6 310lbs he has the height and long arms to stand the OT up and shed the block and is also strong enough to anchor against the run game.

When looking at a DE prospect for someone like Wade Phillips' one gap defense what you are looking for is a defensive lineman who is able to penetrate more with a low center of gravity. By playing only one gap what this player needs to do is get into a lane to disrupt running plays or penetrate into the backfield through this gap to rush the passer. Therefore the ability to beat blocks quickly is essential. Instead of holding off blockers and allowing LBers to make plays these defensive lineman are also expected to make there fair share of plays. Ideal player for this would be Luis Castillo. Being 6'3 and around 290lbs he is quick enough to beat double team blocks and small enough to use leverage to get underneath blocks and disrupt plays in the backfield. Generally one gap DEs in a 34 would also be sutiable as an UT in the 43 or strongside DEs in a 43.
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 12:43 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?
This is becoming a complicated question to answer because the definition is being expanded for both types of players from what it used to be because of the sheer number of teams in the NFL switching/maintaining 3-4 defenses. The demand for defensive linemen to fit those schemes is at an all time high right now and probably won't go down anytime soon.

But yeah, getting into it, I'm sure your aware of what we do with our defensive linemen. The primary responsibility is for them to play the run and eat space and free up space for the outside linebackers to set the edge/rush the passer and for the ILB's to come up the middle and make plays on the run. If they draw a double team, you're OK with that because there's a good chance that means someone from the second level on the front seven will be unblocked and get a free shot at the quarterback and or runningback. At the same time, you don't want a Vince Wilfork type guy. You want someone who can effect plays with their length and athleticism just as much as they can anchor. As Antion mentioned and we all say, Richard Seymour had a Hall of Fame career doing this. At the time when he came out, he was described as being "too tall for a tackle, not fast enough to be a defensive end". As it turns out, that translates incredibly well into being a five technique. Hopefully you get a guy who can effect the plays in the passing game from that spot too, but honestly that's a secondary objective for both me and this team it seems like.

As far as a one gap scheme, you basically look for a 4-3 UT who looks good coming off the edge and running the arch. Their job is to simply beat the tackle in front of them. It's a much faster scheme and is successful on the basis of chaos at the front seven instead of organized confusion like ours. It's a fun scheme to watch actually and has been very effective for some teams.


That's a very basic definition of that stuff, let me know if you need anything more.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 04:44 PM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: What do you do when a doo-doo chump punk points a finger like a stump?
Posts: 9,662
Reputation: 2066468
FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Ok, I understand the philosophy part of it, thanks.

So what do you see in each player (Heyward v. Jordan) that makes one the clear favorite for 1 gap v. 2 gap? Is it strictly measurables? Game tape?

I ask b/c I can't imagine both guys have played both roles. So there can't be definitive proof that one guy can 2 gap but the other can't, right?
__________________

Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs
FlyingElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 04:50 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
Ok, I understand the philosophy part of it, thanks.

So what do you see in each player (Heyward v. Jordan) that makes one the clear favorite for 1 gap v. 2 gap? Is it strictly measurables? Game tape?

I ask b/c I can't imagine both guys have played both roles. So there can't be definitive proof that one guy can 2 gap but the other can't, right?
Cameron Heyward plays with more powder and has greater leg strength. He has more in common with a defensive tackle than an DE contrary to the position he plays. He can make plays on the runner even when he's got a guy on him.

Jordan is a much superior athlete. That offers some advantages obviously, but he'll also get caught out of position easier than because like all good athletes, he'll cheat a bit to make big plays. Easier to take out of the play when he's blocked too, although he's no slouch in that area.

Both of them played similar roles in college and wouldn't have any issue translating to our scheme.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 04:59 PM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: What do you do when a doo-doo chump punk points a finger like a stump?
Posts: 9,662
Reputation: 2066468
FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FlyingElvis is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Both of them played similar roles in college and wouldn't have any issue translating to our scheme.
This is what I was thinking based strictly on measurables.

As much as I love Seymour, I think it's clear the NFL has changed enough that the balance has shifted considerably and a guy with the ability to pressure the QB is far more desirable.

We didn't spend much time this year discussing our major need for a stout, run stuffing DE to help contain the run. lol
__________________

Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs
FlyingElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
ElectricEye
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,401
Reputation: 2363307
ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ElectricEye is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Don't underestimate Heyward in that regard though. Throw on the tape of the Sugar Bowl. He completely owned DeMarcus Love and disrupted the entire Arkansas passing game. Jordan is the better player at this point, but Heyward really isn't a bad consolation prize.
__________________

R.I.P. Junior Seau
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.