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Old 06-19-2011, 01:06 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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what about the 90 years in which the sox won nothing, 40 years in which the patriots of foxboro won anything and the 40 year span in which the bruins won nothing. yes they have had a terrific run in last ten years and i'm not overlooking that. But they've only had one franchise have consistent success over the course of time. i'm not trying to come off as a hater but history would indicate that boston is not the "city of champions". that is all.
DO NOT GET ME GOING. I understand Boston had a very fortunate run of luck via great 10 year stretch. I am not a Boston hater or hater of the teams, I am hater of the retardedness expressed by the fans. Where were the pink hats, Red Sox nation, 1 million plus Bruins fans who were at the rolling parade, Celtics fans during the 90's? The fans are ******* idiots, that is a hasty generalization, but I am guessing their were a few Nazi's who liked crocheting and knitting. It had a good 10 years run that too me is of fortunate cirucmstances: SpyGate, Boston tanking it the season before the acquisition of the big three, Tuck Rule, the collapse of the Yankees(Yankees **** the bed, the Royals could have won those final four games), playing the 2 easiest WS opponents ever in the Rockies and Cards, the Bruins seem to be the only team that hasn't had some fortunate circumstance, they earned it. I will give Boston that. I am not trying to hard to remember those things of fortunate happenings, its like stating the alphabet. Not one of the Boston teams that won it would ever be considered a dominant transcending team, so it wouldn't call it dominant..just a good run. Congrats Boston, take it in whilst it lasts.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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I find it funny that Red Sox fans look down on the organizational strategies of the Yankees. They hate every fabric of their acquisition of players via large sums of money. The Red Sox have become who they hate. Posada, Jeter, M Rivera, Hughes, Cano, Gardner for the most part are homegrown talent and they represent a good portion of the talent on the team..of course their are another 10-15 guys they BOUGHT. The Yankees didn't buy Championships if the Red Sox didn't. Its a contradictory hate towards who you are yourself.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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But Congrats BRUINS you deserved it.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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what about the 90 years in which the sox won nothing, 40 years in which the patriots of foxboro won anything and the 40 year span in which the bruins won nothing. yes they have had a terrific run in last ten years and i'm not overlooking that. But they've only had one franchise have consistent success over the course of time. i'm not trying to come off as a hater but i just think declaring it the "city of champions" is an overreaction as history would indicate otherwise.
You do realize that all of the **** we've gone through over the years is the reason we're so excited about all this...right? Or would you and BOE rather keep make sweeping generalizations about people who aren't even real sports fans?

I just don't understand why people have any desire to get into this kind of crap. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the success we've had over the past ten years. No one here has claimed that we're the only team that wins ever as TACKLE implied. A VERY large part of this all is all the crap we put up with the ****** Bruins ownership, ****** cheap, Patriots management pre-Parcells, and the Celtics being directionless(ever watch every game of the season for a basketball team that started Gerald Green? I have.). Sure, we have some people who haven't really been interested and are fairly casual about the entire thing, but literally EVERYONE has that, especially when their winning.

There's just no point to this.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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I find it funny that Red Sox fans look down on the organizational strategies of the Yankees. They hate every fabric of their acquisition of players via large sums of money. The Red Sox have become who they hate. Posada, Jeter, M Rivera, Hughes, Cano, Gardner for the most part are homegrown talent and they represent a good portion of the talent on the team..of course their are another 10-15 guys they BOUGHT. The Yankees didn't buy Championships if the Red Sox didn't. Its a contradictory hate towards who you are yourself.
This isn't even true. The vast majority of Red Sox fans realize that we're in a unique position due to the market size. Everyone knows baseball is an unfair game. ****, there's even New York Times Bestsellers(and a movie coming) written about that subject.

Besides, that entire thing is outdated. Back in the Giambi/Sheffield type days, that was somewhat valid, but it's not anymore and it's not said anymore.

5 of the players in our lineup today(6 if not for injury, 7 depending on the day) are homegrown too. With free agency the way it is, how many teams can say something like that?
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Also, I dont wanna get in a hissy fit argument. I know I am right and nothing any of you can say will make me feel differently. I also do not put any of you, for the most part, under that umbrella of jack wagon fans. :D



you guys are good guys, I am just venting to the idiocy I hear at work and on WEEI and from idiots in this area.

<3 you
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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This isn't even true. The vast majority of Red Sox fans realize that we're in a unique position due to the market size. Everyone knows baseball is an unfair game. ****, there's even New York Times Bestsellers(and a movie coming) written about that subject.

Besides, that entire thing is outdated. Back in the Giambi/Sheffield type days, that was somewhat valid, but it's not anymore and it's not said anymore.

5 of the players in our lineup today(6 if not for injury, 7 depending on the day) are homegrown too. With free agency the way it is, how many teams can say something like that?
I hear you man, I am just venting in general. :)

J. Ellsbury, CF HG
D. Pedroia, 2B HG
A. Gonzalez, 1B
K. Youkilis, 3B HG
D. Ortiz, DH
J. Drew, RF
M. Scutaro, SS
J. Saltalamacchia, C
J. Reddick, LF HG
T. Wakefield, SP


so four :) but that is all semantics!
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
what about the 90 years in which the sox won nothing, 40 years in which the patriots of foxboro won anything and the 40 year span in which the bruins won nothing. yes they have had a terrific run in last ten years and i'm not overlooking that. But they've only had one franchise have consistent success over the course of time. i'm not trying to come off as a hater but i just think declaring it the "city of champions" is an overreaction as history would indicate otherwise.
Which ONE franchise? Patriots went to 4 Super Bowls, Red Sox won two World Series, Celtics went to two Finals, and all three have been consistently contending over the entire time period. The Bruins are the only one that's just been rising slowly over the last few years.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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91 Alfredo Aceves R-R 6'3" 220 Dec 8, 1982
32 Matt Albers L-R 6'0" 225 Jan 20, 1983
51 Daniel Bard R-R 6'4" 215 Jun 25, 1985 Homegrown
19 Josh Beckett R-R 6'5" 225 May 15, 1980 Homegrown
64 Michael Bowden R-R 6'3" 215 Sep 9, 1986 Homegrown
11 Clay Buchholz L-R 6'3" 190 Aug 14, 1984 Homegrown
68 Tommy Hottovy L-L 6'1" 195 Jul 9, 1981
41 John Lackey R-R 6'6" 245 Oct 23, 1978
31 Jon Lester L-L 6'4" 240 Jan 7, 1984 Homegrown
58 Jonathan Papelbon R-R 6'4" 225 Nov 23, 1980 Homegrown
49 Tim Wakefield R-R 6'2" 210 Aug 2, 1966
35 Dan Wheeler R-R 6'3" 220 Dec 10, 1977
# Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
39 Jarrod Saltalamacchia S-R 6'4" 235 May 2, 1985
33 Jason Varitek S-R 6'2" 230 Apr 11, 1972
# Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
28 Adrian Gonzalez L-L 6'2" 225 May 8, 1982
15 Dustin Pedroia R-R 5'9" 180 Aug 17, 1983 Homegrown
10 Marco Scutaro R-R 5'10" 185 Oct 30, 1975
44 Drew Sutton S-R 6'3" 200 Jun 30, 1983
20 Kevin Youkilis R-R 6'1" 220 Mar 15, 1979 - Homegrown
# Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
23 Mike Cameron R-R 6'2" 210 Jan 8, 1973
7 J.D. Drew L-R 6'1" 200 Nov 20, 1975
2 Jacoby Ellsbury L-L 6'1" 185 Sep 11, 1983 _ homegrown
54 Darnell McDonald R-R 5'11" 205 Nov 17, 1978
16 Josh Reddick L-R 6'2" 180 Feb 19, 1987 - homegrown
# Designated Hitter B/T Ht Wt DOB
34 David Ortiz L-L 6'4" 230 Nov 18, 1975

25% of the active 40 man roster is commendable for a large market team even though Reddick and Bowden are useless guys that are called up due to injuries
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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I hear you man, I am just venting in general. :)

J. Ellsbury, CF HG
D. Pedroia, 2B HG
A. Gonzalez, 1B
K. Youkilis, 3B HG
D. Ortiz, DH
J. Drew, RF
M. Scutaro, SS
J. Saltalamacchia, C
J. Reddick, LF HG
T. Wakefield, SP


so four :) but that is all semantics!
To be fair, the Red Sox have also exploited their ability to pay players and the way the draft is set up in MLB to increase their level of homegrown talent. They'll acquire some bum like Eric Gagne and then he'll sign with some team, and they get a first round pick that they use to draft a guy no one else would pay.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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91 Alfredo Aceves R-R 6'3" 220 Dec 8, 1982
32 Matt Albers L-R 6'0" 225 Jan 20, 1983
51 Daniel Bard R-R 6'4" 215 Jun 25, 1985 Homegrown
19 Josh Beckett R-R 6'5" 225 May 15, 1980 Homegrown
64 Michael Bowden R-R 6'3" 215 Sep 9, 1986 Homegrown
11 Clay Buchholz L-R 6'3" 190 Aug 14, 1984 Homegrown
68 Tommy Hottovy L-L 6'1" 195 Jul 9, 1981
41 John Lackey R-R 6'6" 245 Oct 23, 1978
31 Jon Lester L-L 6'4" 240 Jan 7, 1984 Homegrown
58 Jonathan Papelbon R-R 6'4" 225 Nov 23, 1980 Homegrown
49 Tim Wakefield R-R 6'2" 210 Aug 2, 1966
35 Dan Wheeler R-R 6'3" 220 Dec 10, 1977
# Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
39 Jarrod Saltalamacchia S-R 6'4" 235 May 2, 1985
33 Jason Varitek S-R 6'2" 230 Apr 11, 1972
# Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
28 Adrian Gonzalez L-L 6'2" 225 May 8, 1982
15 Dustin Pedroia R-R 5'9" 180 Aug 17, 1983 Homegrown
10 Marco Scutaro R-R 5'10" 185 Oct 30, 1975
44 Drew Sutton S-R 6'3" 200 Jun 30, 1983
20 Kevin Youkilis R-R 6'1" 220 Mar 15, 1979 - Homegrown
# Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
23 Mike Cameron R-R 6'2" 210 Jan 8, 1973
7 J.D. Drew L-R 6'1" 200 Nov 20, 1975
2 Jacoby Ellsbury L-L 6'1" 185 Sep 11, 1983 _ homegrown
54 Darnell McDonald R-R 5'11" 205 Nov 17, 1978
16 Josh Reddick L-R 6'2" 180 Feb 19, 1987 - homegrown
# Designated Hitter B/T Ht Wt DOB
34 David Ortiz L-L 6'4" 230 Nov 18, 1975

25% of the active 40 man roster is commendable for a large market team even though Reddick and Bowden are useless guys that are called up due to injuries
The Royals would kill for Bowden or Reddick.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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The Royals would kill for Bowden or Reddick.
Maybe, Bowden will never be a starter and Reddick never more than a platoon just like how Lars Anderson will never be anything.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Maybe, Bowden will never be a starter and Reddick never more than a platoon just like how Lars Anderson will never be anything.
Bowden would be a starter if the Red Sox didn't keep moving him back and forth between starter and reliever. On 95% of the other teams in the league, he'd be a starter. Probably a #4, but most teams don't even have better than a #2... Hochevar is the Royals' best, and he's also a 4/5 kind of guy right now. I think he can get to being a #3...
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Tommy Hottovy is completely homegrown.

Jason Varitek was in our minor league system for a period of time(although he didn't get any AB's) and the majority of his work(and coaching) has been here, so you can basically consider him homegrown.

David Ortiz you can put as a half and half. He was nowhere near the same player for Minnesota that he was for the Red Sox and has credited the coaching here for bringing him along. So not homegrown, but in the Jose Bautista redemption type category(although not as extreme). Heck, he was stuck behind Jeremy Giambi for a large portion of his first year here even.

But that's minor stuff. Point remains that the real core of this team was assembled in the minors and has been supplemented through acquisitions. The reason we've been able to make some of those acquisitions(Gonzalez, specifically) also has a lot to do with player development too though.

As far as Bowden and Reddick go, Reddick still has some potential. He's a plus defender in the outfield and hits for power. It's just all about his approach and making consistent contact. Platoon player is his floor IMO, could be a league average/slightly above player if things break right. He would probably already be in the majors for a lot of other teams, but we completely messed with his approach over the past few years to get him to be a more patient hitter. It's started to work, but it's been a long way.

Bowden I've never really been impressed with. More of a 4 or a 5 on a National League team, in an ideal world. I would rather us start him and have not signed Lackey though...
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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They are probably the best team using financial resources and inter-organizational resources
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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and Bowden is not even a top 30 AAA starter or top 150 prospect. He was 2-3 years ago, but that is the fault of the organization as you said flip flopping him to starter, relief.

wait a second, he is only a reliever in AAA now, holy ****.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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Old 06-19-2011, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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ill stop trolling, I CANNOT WAIT TO GO TO MONDAY NIGHT GAME VS. KC the Monday before Turkey day.

Who is going?
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Moving forward!

Now that we're on the subject of Red Sox player development, some exciting things are happening in the low minors right now. Specifically in Greenville, which has been a great team to watch the box scores for going on a few years now.

Brandon Jacobs is currently .395/.527/.922 in his first year in full season ball. Started out with a ridiculously high BA mostly due to a very high BABIP, but he's since cooled that down a bit and is now walking and hitting for power(mostly doubles) at a real nice clip. He's a damn good athlete too, former Auburn recruit as a RB.

Xander Bogaerts, a 6'3 175 pound wiry strong SS from Aruba, hit his first home run yesterday. Made a big jump from the Domican Summer League to full season US ball, but the results are strong so far over a very small sample size. Pushed the regular starter at that level down to Lowell recently. Has the potential to fill out and put up some power numbers while be a decent short stop/third basemen down the line.

Sean Coyle, a 5'8 180 lb Dustin Pedroia clone, is slugging the **** out of the ball and walking at a good clip...but is having some issues making contact. Has a .218/.347/.468 line right now.

So yeah, the Gonzo trade raided our farm system(best wishes to Anthony Rizzo and Casey Kelly), but some of these high upside high school bats we've been taking for the past few years are finally starting to pan out and be more than projection players.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Some raw talent in the organization, not a lot of top end talent right now but with their system in the next year or two they could be back in the top 10 farm systems talent wise
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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So Buchholz goes to the DL and Andrew Miller takes his spot. Both are good moves. Buch obviously needs to rest that back. He's pitched pretty well through it, but we're going to need him down the stretch and there's no use screwing around with a back injury after the entire Beckett thing last year.

Miller is exciting. Electric stuff, poor control. He's stopped walking guys this month(at the expense of a few MPH on the gun) and also started missing some more bats as well. Could be a real nice pickup for the rest of the year if he continues trending the right way.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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So Buchholz goes to the DL and Andrew Miller takes his spot. Both are good moves. Buch obviously needs to rest that back. He's pitched pretty well through it, but we're going to need him down the stretch and there's no use screwing around with a back injury after the entire Beckett thing last year.

Miller is exciting. Electric stuff, poor control. He's stopped walking guys this month(at the expense of a few MPH on the gun) and also started missing some more bats as well. Could be a real nice pickup for the rest of the year if he continues trending the right way.
Miller has some crazy sick stuff, but mentally not always there. He could be a diamond in the rough at this point. I remember he was gonna be a top 10-20 starter in the game if his skills followed through. He was such a monster 5-7 years ago
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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It's a good time to put him in as well. Pitching against some weaker National League lineups(Padres and Pirates) is a good way to keep his confidence up and maintain his control.
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that all of the **** we've gone through over the years is the reason we're so excited about all this...right? Or would you and BOE rather keep make sweeping generalizations about people who aren't even real sports fans?

I just don't understand why people have any desire to get into this kind of crap. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the success we've had over the past ten years. No one here has claimed that we're the only team that wins ever as TACKLE implied. A VERY large part of this all is all the crap we put up with the ****** Bruins ownership, ****** cheap, Patriots management pre-Parcells, and the Celtics being directionless(ever watch every game of the season for a basketball team that started Gerald Green? I have.). Sure, we have some people who haven't really been interested and are fairly casual about the entire thing, but literally EVERYONE has that, especially when their winning.

There's just no point to this.
k maybe that part may be true but......

a. i didn't imply that boston fans thought they were "the only team that wins ever". when i saw CITY OF CHAMPIONS i couldn't help but raise my eyebrows in shock. as you've stated, the teams have had struggles there for years and years which is why it is so exciting right now. i totally get that and am not trying to **** on that. enjoy it. i just was shocked when i saw those three words given the city's sports history. that's all.

b. i'm from vancouver so i may just be a tiny tad bitter that all this talk is being sparked by the bruins win.

c. i just don't like the sox at all. plain and simple.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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I'd agree with you if I said all time. I meant in the past decade. As in the current City of champs
No other town has as many combined championships in the 4 major sports.
3 by the Pats, 2 by BoSox and 1 a piece from the Celtics n Bruins.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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This is the Patriots team forum. We're not trying to be particularly objective or careful with our words here, just like you probably aren't on the Ravens team forum. Hell, hockey is like the sixth tier sport for most people here even, we're football guys. Total mountain out of a mole hill. I'm sorry your hockey team lost, but telling us off based on nothing isn't going to change that or even make it any more tolerable or better in the end.

So basically, "raising your eyebrows in shock", posting two walls of text, and then trying to rationalize it for a comment that wasn't even directed towards you is putting far more thought to an anecdote that was meant to be framed in a happy, celebratory context than was put into it in the first place...and isn't exactly reasonable.
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