Haynesworth wants out of Washington...

[bsaza2358]

I wouldn't say that the Skins are the worst in the NFL, but they're a bottom 1/3 organization until Shanahan and Allen have a chance to institute their new culture and system. That system includes the personnel.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

4. He might ask for a trade, but he won't get it... I have to agree with that, but Shanahan doesn't want him anymore, and AH doesn't want to be there. The Skins will try to trade him, but AH pretty much won't go to any 3-4 team. That rules out a lot of suitors (like Miami, NE, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cleveland, etc.). He also probably wants to go to a contender. Scratch out STL, Detroit, TB, etc. The Skins probably won't trade him in the division. The actual market for AH is very limited. Couple that with the public knowledge that he wants out and they don't want him, and what teams will offer will go down. Additionally, his attitude becomes even more of an issue. He is still due a pretty sizable salary that probably has to be restructured after the season. Do teams really want to deal with that?

1) does he have a no-trade clause?
2) what's his salary for this year and next, not counting the bonus?

[toddmlazarchick]

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

You make some interesting points. Let me address them 1 by 1...

1. It's foolish to think they weren't blindsided... Nonsense! They paid him the $21mm bonus on time. He took the money and screwed them. I'm not blaming the management here for how they handled it. They did their part in terms of setting up the proper environment and communicating. However, he didn't deal in good faith. That is on AH, not Shanny.

Seriously man get real. Do you really think two professionals really could be that naive that they never thought it could be a possibility? Im sure if they were betting they would have bet on him being there but always in the back of their mind the situation had to be there the "what if" he ***** us over? Which is proven by the fact that we brought in a ton of d-linemen depth we brought in. None of which are to the caliber of Al but still a bunch of people were brought in for depth.

2. There is no massive hole... The depth takes a hit. The quality of the defensive front takes a hit. The ability for the LB's to flow to the ball takes a hit. The ability for Carter and Orakpo to get to the QB on the edge takes a hit. All those pretty sizable hits create a pretty big issue for the Skins. It's not crippling, but it changes rotations and game plans. They are way worse off without him.

The depth DOES NOT take a hit. Talent yes, depth no. There were a bunch of DL players brought in in the offseason so far. A 3-4 DE does needs to eat space and be stout against the run, not necessarily an elite pass rusher, only the special ones are. To find a player currently on roster who can be stout against the run and can hold his own space isn't hard pressed. Replacing Al as a 3-4 DE is an easier task then replacing Al as a 4-3 DT. Your speculation about Orakpo and Carter and the LBs is just that speculation. You nor I know how they will play without him. Orakpo had 4 sacks in a game against Oakland without Al playing that week.

3. He had to earn it... This is total bunk. They might say he had to earn it, but no one in their right mind thinks that he wasn't going to start and play big snaps for that team. Money talks, especially with Danny Snyder.

Yes it was almost guaranteed that he would start when he came in BUT if he came in and was a total slob and out of shape, you play the best player. Whether thats him or someone else period!

4. He might ask for a trade, but he won't get it... I have to agree with that, but Shanahan doesn't want him anymore, and AH doesn't want to be there. The Skins will try to trade him, but AH pretty much won't go to any 3-4 team. That rules out a lot of suitors (like Miami, NE, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cleveland, etc.). He also probably wants to go to a contender. Scratch out STL, Detroit, TB, etc. The Skins probably won't trade him in the division. The actual market for AH is very limited. Couple that with the public knowledge that he wants out and they don't want him, and what teams will offer will go down. Additionally, his attitude becomes even more of an issue. He is still due a pretty sizable salary that probably has to be restructured after the season. Do teams really want to deal with that?

It is very possible that AH has to play out 2010 with the Skins. I foresee some sort of TO type situation where they eventually just send him home and continue to try to claw back on his bonus. This is gonna get ugly...

I find it hard to believe that Shanahan doesn't want him. If he came into camp tomorrow and apologized, Shanahan wouldn't play him or still try and trade him? The chances of that happening are slim and none (you know the rest) but if he doesn't get traded there is no saying he won't just suck it up and play the year out to prove he can be disciplined so there would be a market for him next season. If he makes it to the season still on this team, its his best interest to be a man and just ball up. It best suits him for the future and the rest of the career, whether thats here or elsewhere.

Responses in bold

[XLIV]

Albert has a legit beef. He signed up to play in a 43 and specifically went to Wash because they had a 43. He stayed away from 34 teams. He wants (when he wants) to be able to use his full potential and thats playing in a 43 not a 34. He's just being a little ***** about it.

[bsaza2358]

Originally Posted by Brent

1) does he have a no-trade clause?
2) what's his salary for this year and next, not counting the bonus?

Contract is for 7 years, $100mm, $41mm is guaranteed. Here is what I found on his contract:

Guaranteed Money:

- Signing Bonus: $5M

- 2009 guaranteed P5 salary: $6M

- Option Bonus: $21M

- 2010 guaranteed P5 salary: $3.6M

- 2011 guaranteed P5 salary: $5.4M

TOTALING: $41M guaranteed


Non-Guaranteed Money:

- 2012 P5 salary: $6.7M

- 2012 Off-Season Workout Bonus: $500K

TOTALING: $7.2M


Total Over 2009-2012: $48.2M


So you ask, I thought his contract was 7 years (2009-2015) for $100M? Well, here's where the fluff comes in. It goes as follows:


Non-Guaranteed Money:

- 2013 Discretionary Signing Bonus: $20M (OR if teams chooses at their discretion to not pay the Signing Bonus, there then becomes a $35M incentive that can be earned given certain performance)

- 2013 August 31 Roster Bonus: $500K

- 2013 P5 salary: $8.5M

- 2014 August 31 Roster Bonus: $500K

- 2014 P5 salary: $10.3M

- 2015 August 31 Roster Bonus: $500K

- 2015 P5 salary: $11.5M

TOTALING: (assuming the team elects to pay the discretionary signing bonus) $51.8M


Therefore, giving you a GRAND TOTAL of $100M over 7 years ($48.2M + $51.8M).


In essence this is 2 contracts in 1. Basically, the first contract is for $48.2M over 4 years. If he's still playing at a high level come 2013, then the team can, in essence, execute another contract with Haynesworth that would be a 3 year deal worth $51.8M with $20M guaranteed. If he's not playing at a high level come 2013, then they simply cut him; however, they'd then have $9.4M of "dead money" on their books in 2013.

Looks like they have $9.9mm in guarantees left, plus the remainder of the deal. That has to be restructured by the new team. That creates more guaranteed money and such. If you think AH is going to go to a team without a new deal, you must be nuts. Teams tend to want these deals on their own terms.

[bsaza2358]

Originally Posted by XLIV

Albert has a legit beef. He signed up to play in a 43 and specifically went to Wash because they had a 43. He stayed away from 34 teams. He wants (when he wants) to be able to use his full potential and thats playing in a 43 not a 34. He's just being a little ***** about it.

He signed a 7 year deal with a team where the coach had 2 years left. The possibility of a regime change and a scheme change was there. His agent didn't insist on any clauses to protect his interests. That could have helped this situation, but his agent didn't go that far. He took the money to play for the Skins. He is required to be at mandatory meetings, even if they want to play him at QB or as the water boy. Otherwise, don't take the $21mm.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

21 mill should make him want to do anything they ask.

[XLIV]

Originally Posted by bsaza2358

He signed a 7 year deal with a team where the coach had 2 years left. The possibility of a regime change and a scheme change was there. His agent didn't insist on any clauses to protect his interests. That could have helped this situation, but his agent didn't go that far. He took the money to play for the Skins. He is required to be at mandatory meetings, even if they want to play him at QB or as the water boy. Otherwise, don't take the $21mm.

that was the biggest **** up of all.

[bsaza2358]

There is nothing in the contract about scheme, position, playing time, or anything. The Skins held up their end of the deal. While I love pounding on them for being terrible, they are being wronged by this player.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES

21 mill should make him want to do anything they ask.

Key word, but unfortunately for the Skins, that's not the case. This is not a good situation for the Skins, no matter how you look at it. No matter what they are giving out big money and not getting the return on imvestment. I see three possible situations for the Skins...
1. He could be traded. It sucks for the Skins because they are still giving out big money to a guy not even on their team, not doing them any good. At the very best case they'll get a 3rd rounder (maybe some additional compensation), but they are not getting what they paid for.

2. He could sit out the season. They are still paying a guy big bucks who isn't on the field for them. This just delays a trade or release for next year, and much like TO with the Eagles, teams wouldn't give up compensation for him when they know they could get him for "just a contract" if they wait a little bit.

3. He could come back and play. This would be a gut check to Haynesworth, and of the three, is actually the best for the Skins, but it still doesn't benefit them. If he comes back he will be the unmotivated AH, causing locker room problems and not living up to his pay. This also just delays him being traded or released a year down the road.

Now he could come back and do what was expected of him, but with his track record and his history, what makes anyone believe he will just put this behind him and play like a normal dominant AH? Furthermore, what makes anyone think he'll do that for the next 3+ years?

[toddmlazarchick]

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway

2. He could sit out the season. They are still paying a guy big bucks who isn't on the field for them. This just delays a trade or release for next year, and much like TO with the Eagles, teams wouldn't give up compensation for him when they know they could get him for "just a contract" if they wait a little bit.

If he chooses to sit out the year then his career is done. There is no chance in hell he will continue to bust his butt all season long staying in shape. The only good thing about TO is that he loved himself and loved the stats and wanting to be the best. Al, right now, just loves the money.

[eaglesalltheway]

Originally Posted by toddmlazarchick

If he chooses to sit out the year then his career is done. There is no chance in hell he will continue to bust his butt all season long staying in shape. The only good thing about TO is that he loved himself and loved the stats and wanting to be the best. Al, right now, just loves the money.

But he will still want to make that money, no? Though the motivation is different, the end result will still be the same, at least I believe. Haynesworth is going to look at the money he could be making, and that should push him a bit to work so he can continue his career. I do think that if he would end up sitting out this year, it would hurt his career drastically because, like you said, the money is what would be driving Al, and not TO's love for himself. When money is your driving force, as opposed to wanting to be the best, your results won't be as good. But because he still will need a paycheck, he will have to work to get into shape, though he would never be the same force he was in Tennessee, or even what he was last season.

[bsaza2358]

His only motivation before was getting the big money contract. He has now gotten that contract. There is really nothing else motivating him. If that was the issue, he'd be in camp after getting his $21mm. His attitude is a problem. I always thought he'd end up screwing the Skins. Just figured it'd take 3 years for him to get it done. Way to be ahead of schedule, Big Al!!!

[toddmlazarchick]

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway

But he will still want to make that money, no? Though the motivation is different, the end result will still be the same, at least I believe. Haynesworth is going to look at the money he could be making, and that should push him a bit to work so he can continue his career. I do think that if he would end up sitting out this year, it would hurt his career drastically because, like you said, the money is what would be driving Al, and not TO's love for himself. When money is your driving force, as opposed to wanting to be the best, your results won't be as good. But because he still will need a paycheck, he will have to work to get into shape, though he would never be the same force he was in Tennessee, or even what he was last season.

I believe that if he is still here when the season starts he will just man up and play. I believe he will see the bigger picture if he sits out, no one will want him.

[bsaza2358]

Worst case scenario, he will whine and moan his way through a year with the Skins while Shanny tries his best to alienate the guy enough that he can suspend him and recoup his bonus. This is not going to end well. Think TO with the Eagles kind of bad. The only difference is that AH is probably not getting a 3 year/$30mm deal with another team like TO did. Unlike AH, TO's work ethic is beyond reproach.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I've been hearing that the Redskins might resort to buying out Haynesworth's contract then going after a large chunk of that $21 million roster bonus. Seems like the clearest choice at this point.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

I've been hearing that the Redskins might resort to buying out Haynesworth's contract then going after a large chunk of that $21 million roster bonus. Seems like the clearest choice at this point.

I hope they do, I'd love to see the skins part ways with Al just to watch him join a contender and dominate.

[Scotty D]

If Haynesworth gets cut I can see a one year deal with the Titans.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

I hope they do, I'd love to see the skins part ways with Al just to watch him join a contender and dominate.

Yeah, we'll see. Not many teams are going to bring him in the middle of training camp considering the way he's been acting.

His complaining about the Redskins scheme dates back to even before they moved to a 34 defense. He's a huge potential headache for anyone who signs him. Knowing Shanahan, the 'Skins may wait until the last possible moment to cut Haynesworth, building their case for recouping money and hurting his chances to latch onto another team.

We know Haynesworth is talented enough to dominate again, but it also wouldn't surprise me if he never plays like he did in 2008 ever again.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

Yeah, we'll see. Not many teams are going to bring him in the middle of training camp considering the way he's been acting.

His complaining about the Redskins scheme dates back to even before they moved to a 34 defense. He's a huge potential headache for anyone who signs him. Knowing Shanahan, the 'Skins may wait until the last possible moment to cut Haynesworth, building their case for recouping money and hurting his chances to latch onto another team.

We know Haynesworth is talented enough to dominate again, but it also wouldn't surprise me if he never plays like he did in 2008 ever again.

He doesn't have to play like he did in 2008 to be a beast or dominant. And I think that a lot of teams like the Gmen would bring him in at least for a sitdown. The dude was a force last year when healthy and that was when he was not playing at 100%, put him on a team where his efforts will help lead to wins and I think we see a more motivated Al than we did last year which frankly would make the giants one of the superbowl favorites so long as we're mostly healthy.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

I don't think AH makes the Giants a Superbowl favorite. You need more than a defensive line to win a championship

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES

I don't think AH makes the Giants a Superbowl favorite. You need more than a defensive line to win a championship

Good thing we've got the best secondary the giants have had during my fan hood, a top ten QB, a good receiving corps and more talent at LB than they've had since Barrow and Armstead where still beasts. The giants were killed by injuries last year but what was even worse was the interior DL, improve that and our run D and redzone D sky rocket to go with an already beastly pass defense and very reliable passing game on offense that has a good running scheme with talented runners. We may not be front runners but we'd be one of the favorites.

[critesy]

cerrato voices his opinion (lol)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-4-3-defense/

[Brent]

Originally Posted by critesy

cerrato voices his opinion (lol)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-4-3-defense/

you're right, but they also gave him an option to leave and got suckered into giving up $21mm

[cvv84]

Lets be honest, who didn't see this blowing up on the Redskins the very moment Haynesworth signed? He was either going to underperform or complain, ironically he chose to do both.


Talented as **** but not a guy you'd want to back up the Brinks truck too.