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Old 12-06-2010, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Thanks guys, great posts.

I haven't watched Peterson outside of maybe 1 quarter so I'm not sure yet where I stand on Prince vs Peterson. But this Prince Akamura, I really like what he brings to the table.

The other CB Nebraska has is pretty good too. I wonder if he's coming out.

I should have scouted more players on that Oklahoma roster. There was 1 dlinemen on the Sooners that stood out to me, but I can't remember who it was. It was either #94 or 93. I can't remember.

Speaking of CBs, I've been terribly disappointed in Mike Jenkins this year. He's been getting absolutely abused all season. Prince and him share a similar physique, that's why I bring him up just now.

But that Cowboy defense has looked pretty bad so far this year. Mainly in the secondary.
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Apologize if this has been posted before, but Blackmon is pretty much having his way with Prince on a lot of plays:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeWn3bwWTg
To be fair, this Blackmon guy looks like a beast. And Prince did a good job on him for the majority of the game minus perhaps 2 plays.

Considering its college level, he had no help on any of those plays, he was going against what Im assuming to be a top WR coming out, and 1 of those plays was a flea flicker, I think overall he did a good job.

Don't forget, when he gets to the next level, he'll get help against a guy like Blackmon, plus he'll get to prepare for him a lot more with film study.

Film study is huge for CBs at the next level.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Yea Jenks is upsetting to watch. You know the talent is there, but he's nowhere near the same player he was last year. Maybe his confidence is shot, maybe he just had a good year and is more of a very good #2, I'll let next season judge for me. We have seen an up and down rookie season with some flashes of being a great player, we have seen a pro bowl type of season with some great performances, and a down year filled with tons of completions.


Even yesterday, like the play where Wayne dropped an easy pass that could have kept the drive going on 3rd and 2, what was Jenkins doing? He was 10 yards off and kept backing up when the ball was snapped.


On the long Wayne completion he was backed off of him by a large margin, and when the play was snapped it was like he didn't know whether to run or jog, go forward or back, by the time Wayne was 3 yards past him he decided it was time to run when it was too late. What pissed me off was that he didn't even get a jam, it's like his head isn't in it because he doesn't play like that at all.



I think getting a guy like Prince would let him know to step his **** up and I'd love even more having Jenkins as our #2 opposite Peterson or Prince. There was no reason for Wayne to beat him as bad as he did, because he's shut down better WR's last year.
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Old 12-06-2010, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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A name I want to learn more about is Kendrick Ellis, that mammoth DT from Hampton. I know he was dismissed from South Carolina, I imagine moth would know about him. All I can find is that he has a lot of hype around him and he's like 6'5 340. I also read some Shaun Rogers comparisons, anyone know anything about this kid?

EDIT: Actually his name is Kenrick, no D... and I could only find his HS tape


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Old 12-06-2010, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Kenrick Ellis is one of the biggest disappointments in SCAR recruiting history. Because he was a dumb ass at SCAR. He could have been great. I was little more than pissed off when he got himself kicked off the team. That said, the guy is a force in the MEAC. At least, he is in bursts. He'll show flashes of dominance, but isnt exactly a stranger to being neutralized. He's a beast most of the time, but consistency hasnt been his strongest point. But yeah, the guy has it all. The body, strength, quick initial burst, and suprisingly good agility. He can be drafted to play a number of positions. He can play either NT or End in the 34 and 43. He's a versatile guy with a very high ceiling.

But keep in mind, the guy is a complete moron. He's even been suspended at Hampton a time or two, I dont recall what for, though.
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Just curious Moth, is the inconsistency just from when you watched him at SCAR? There's some contradicting reports in his thread on the draft forum on his motor ranging from one of the best in the draft to basically very inconsistent. I'd love to get some film on him from this season, he could be worth our 3rd if he looks good at the Senior Bowl, we haven't had a big body like that in quite some time.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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I've seen Hampton games...one of the benefits of the directv college football package. He didnt even really play all that much at SCAR. I didnt say he was insanely inconsistent, but he's not always as dominant as he should be. He can be a very fast riser. He is a former top high school recruit, as well.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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A name I want to learn more about is Kendrick Ellis, that mammoth DT from Hampton. I know he was dismissed from South Carolina, I imagine moth would know about him. All I can find is that he has a lot of hype around him and he's like 6'5 340. I also read some Shaun Rogers comparisons, anyone know anything about this kid?

EDIT: Actually his name is Kenrick, no D... and I could only find his HS tape

Thanks for posting that video. He's dominant against that level of competition, that's for sure. I've always liked what I've read about him, but that video is the first I've seen of him in real action. I want him!

...and as far as him being dumb... Of all positions, I don't care about DL being dumb. I don't care if they have half a brain. It takes a dummy to do what they do anyways. lol. I think we could land him with our 3rd rounder. That would be ideal. 2nd would be too early unless we traded down.
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:45 AM    (permalink
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Dumb, as in...he may very well get himself suspended or kicked off a pro team. I'm not talking school smarts. He's immature and has a history of finding trouble off the field. Dude's been suspended 3/4 times by two different schools.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Dumb, as in...he may very well get himself suspended or kicked off a pro team. I'm not talking school smarts. He's immature and has a history of finding trouble off the field. Dude's been suspended 3/4 times by two different schools.
Then those are legit concerns which will probably make him drop further than his talent suggests. After what's happened with NFL DL... Haynesworth, Jolley, etc... I think teams will be extra cautious with him.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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I understand mistakes. But you absolutely can not take chances on dumb players today. Some guys come off as dumb but they just get football. I'm thinking Chris Johnson and elite players who were just made for the football field. But this is a lot different than Ellis. He's been dumb for 4 years and now you are going to give him 6-7 digit salary? No Thanks....same reason I wouldn't draft Marshawn Lynch and other players with shaddy practices off the field. I wouldn't consider talking to Deion shaddy if anyone was wondering.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to hear more about this... from everyone. Thoughts???
Sean Lee does play both positions. That said he's been mainly at WILB which is where Brooking is. Lee is definitely a better fit here just because he tends to get soft after contact. He is definitely an attacker....he is so fluid and quick to the hole...but he really doesn't do anything but stack. Watch James hit the hole and Lee. They have things in common but James fills the hole looking to take down the back...so far from what we've seen and read you don't see the same make up from Lee. Thats not really a knock on Lee for me...just voicing why I think we'll keep him on the weak side.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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Thats my post from the Giants draft thread. I would like to hear your opinions on those 2 players as well.

Me personally, I think you guys should seriously eye Prince if he's available when you pick. I think the guy is going to be a stud. I love his game. He kind of reminds me of Charles Woodson.

Would do you guys think? Is Prince a realistic target for the Cowboys?
Prince screams everything you look for in a player on and off the field. Team Captain, Good Grades, Versatility. Character has become such a big priority for the cowboys that I have no doubt he'll be rated high in Dallas. The knock I have on him at this point is how he plays against top competition. When you have someone who is such a technician like Prince is and you still see him getting beat by the elite prospect you have to worry...because even though he is very good he may not be elite. I don't know if you draft a corner in the top 10 that isn't elite.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Prince screams everything you look for in a player on and off the field. Team Captain, Good Grades, Versatility. Character has become such a big priority for the cowboys that I have no doubt he'll be rated high in Dallas. The knock I have on him at this point is how he plays against top competition. When you have someone who is such a technician like Prince is and you still see him getting beat by the elite prospect you have to worry...because even though he is very good he may not be elite. I don't know if you draft a corner in the top 10 that isn't elite.
I'm not getting good vibes on my read of Prince. I think he's good, but I do question if he is elite. For a guy being raved about as highly as he is, I don't know if he's as good as touted. I'd be much more comfortable taking him in the second half of Round 1.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I'm not getting good vibes on my read of Prince. I think he's good, but I do question if he is elite. For a guy being raved about as highly as he is, I don't know if he's as good as touted. I'd be much more comfortable taking him in the second half of Round 1.
Funny thing is scouts are starting to whisper like they did with Malcolm Jenkins. Jenkins was elite at the college level also..but then when it comes time to make the transition to the NFL they actually fair better at safety. Even his own coaches say he could play there. That is why I'm completely open to him and Peterson...and I wouldn't even waste my time playing them at CB...because we need a safety.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Funny thing is scouts are starting to whisper like they did with Malcolm Jenkins. Jenkins was elite at the college level also..but then when it comes time to make the transition to the NFL they actually fair better at safety. Even his own coaches say he could play there. That is why I'm completely open to him and Peterson...and I wouldn't even waste my time playing them at CB...because we need a safety.
I think we should trade up for Peterson. It might take our 1st and 2nd and a later or future pick, but now that we keep winning for the sake of "being competitive" and have taken ourselves far out of range for him, that's the kind of cost we have to deal with. But Safety is so atrocious that I think it's almost a must.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I think we should trade up for Peterson. It might take our 1st and 2nd and a later or future pick, but now that we keep winning for the sake of "being competitive" and have taken ourselves far out of range for him, that's the kind of cost we have to deal with. But Safety is so atrocious that I think it's almost a must.
I'd be extremely against that. In fact I'd move the opposite direction. If Prince / PP are off the board and we are drafting in the 6-10 range I'd trade back in the 1st and gain another 2nd and maybe more. Mid-late first there are olineman to be had. With 2 maybe 3 picks between 20-40 we could come away with Wisniewski (C/OG), Cannon (OG), Carimi (RT), or a variety of other lineman. We most definitely cannot afford to trade out of the top of the 2nd to land an elite CB/S. For all we know he could not pan out and end up costing the franchise huge. This coming from a PP fan.

We have our future project in AoA and a few youngsters who are best kept as fill-ins at the position. Perhaps FA will be the answer to our calls?
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Putting Peterson at Safety right away would be a stupid decision IMO. Could it work out? Sure. But you don't put him at Safety 1st and hope for the best. When is the last time a high profile, elite CB at the College level was drafted to be a Safety? It happens a bunch, but those guys are put at CB first like they should.


Just m/o though, I'd be pissed if we did that.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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I'd be extremely against that. In fact I'd move the opposite direction. If Prince / PP are off the board and we are drafting in the 6-10 range I'd trade back in the 1st and gain another 2nd and maybe more. Mid-late first there are olineman to be had. With 2 maybe 3 picks between 20-40 we could come away with Wisniewski (C/OG), Cannon (OG), Carimi (RT), or a variety of other lineman. We most definitely cannot afford to trade out of the top of the 2nd to land an elite CB/S. For all we know he could not pan out and end up costing the franchise huge. This coming from a PP fan.

We have our future project in AoA and a few youngsters who are best kept as fill-ins at the position. Perhaps FA will be the answer to our calls?


You make some good points, but I don't know that moving back would sit well with me. We could gain an extra 2nd, get first pick of the Safety class, and rehaul the offensive line. I don't know that I'm gonna go into the draft thinking AOA is the future of anything, he could be, but I'm not relying on it.


I'd be ok with moving back and coming away with something like Derrick Sherrod, Ras I Dowling or Rahim Moore, Jimmy Smith, and Marcus Cannon. I'm guessing Cannon goes early 3rd but maybe alot sooner. Ras I can be a tweener but can easily play Safety and if not we need CB's. Smith can develop into a stud at CB, and we'd come away with a new RT and RG. FA should be able to hopefully get us Mankins so that'd be 3 new O-line starters and only needing a C of the future.


I'd be ok with something similiar if we did trade down, I'd want at least 2 O-lineman though and probably 2 guys in the secondary. I just don't know if moving down is something I can fully get on board with yet.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Funny thing is scouts are starting to whisper like they did with Malcolm Jenkins. Jenkins was elite at the college level also..but then when it comes time to make the transition to the NFL they actually fair better at safety. Even his own coaches say he could play there. That is why I'm completely open to him and Peterson...and I wouldn't even waste my time playing them at CB...because we need a safety.
Agree with playing him at safety. I will say he is a better prospect than Jenkins. Much more fluid hips. Either way I think we could play either at safety and they would have a bigger impact than playing corner. With that said, IMO are biggest issues is still in the trenches on both sides of the ball. We need to get bigger at the nose tackle spot and if we're picking in the top 10 we have to get a player in the trenches. I'm crossing my fingers for either Fairley or Dareus whichever one slides. I see us losing both games to philly because they're incredibly difficult to defend with Vick's rare mobility, arm strength, and downfield accuracy. And I see us beating the skins and cardinals. Do you guys think that gets us in the top 10 or just outside?
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Putting Peterson at Safety right away would be a stupid decision IMO. Could it work out? Sure. But you don't put him at Safety 1st and hope for the best. When is the last time a high profile, elite CB at the College level was drafted to be a Safety? It happens a bunch, but those guys are put at CB first like they should.


Just m/o though, I'd be pissed if we did that.
No. Playing Alan Ball and Gerald Sensabaugh at Safety next year would be a stupid decision.

Peterson at Safety is not a foreign or strange projection. Who's to say he wouldn't be a better safety than he would be at corner? He's had questionable moments at cornerback this season. Bottom line... play him where he would excel most. CB or S. Saying he HAS TO be a corner is too closed minded.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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We have a realistic shot at finishing 8-8 and could wind up picking around 15 or so. I think at this point with the fiasco in Arizona and Washington we will handily win those games. Philly for some reason doesn't scare me and when you think of who we've been competing with the last few games (Giants, Colts, Saints) those are some pretty good football teams we beat/should've beat. I see us worst case scenario finishing with a 7-9 record, a dramatic turnaround no doubt, but really hurts when you look toward rebuilding some pieces.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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No. Playing Alan Ball and Gerald Sensabaugh at Safety next year would be a stupid decision.

Peterson at Safety is not a foreign or strange projection. Who's to say he wouldn't be a better safety than he would be at corner? He's had questionable moments at cornerback this season. Bottom line... play him where he would excel most. CB or S. Saying he HAS TO be a corner is too closed minded.
The problem is that you don't spend top 5 money on a S, or at least, you'd RATHER spend top 5 money on a CB than a S.

I think the Cowboys would be best served to go after a guy like DeAndre McDaniel or Mark Barron in later rounds to fix the free safety hole on the roster.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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The problem is that you don't spend top 5 money on a S, or at least, you'd RATHER spend top 5 money on a CB than a S.

I think the Cowboys would be best served to go after a guy like DeAndre McDaniel or Mark Barron in later rounds to fix the free safety hole on the roster.
Mark Barron is terrible and would be even more terrible as a FS. McDaniel is more of a SS.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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We have a realistic shot at finishing 8-8 and could wind up picking around 15 or so. I think at this point with the fiasco in Arizona and Washington we will handily win those games. Philly for some reason doesn't scare me and when you think of who we've been competing with the last few games (Giants, Colts, Saints) those are some pretty good football teams we beat/should've beat. I see us worst case scenario finishing with a 7-9 record, a dramatic turnaround no doubt, but really hurts when you look toward rebuilding some pieces.
Like Kenny Rogers said... You gotta know when to fold 'em, know when to hold 'em. No when to walk away, know when to run... We basically fought to win games in a meaningless season. Instead of being in better position to rebuild our team for next year and restart our effort, we basically shot ourselves in the foot. Not just for the draft in ruining our draft position, but also in next year's schedule. It'll be harder now, the more we keep winning. This is why some teams... especially US... year after year get stuck doing the same thing over and over again floating between 8-8 and 12-3 records with no championship to show for it. I understand the team on the field wants to win, and they're playing for their jobs, so that's that... but it's almost better if we suck for a season. We already know our team is more talented than our record shows. That just makes us an even more perfect candidate to tank. We can bounce back quicker. Losing Romo to injury was perfect. But we've now botched that. Jerry obviously doesn't have a clue. He should've kept Wade for the rest of the season and took the loses. Then give Garrett the HC job next season. The turnaround would've been miraculous! We can already see how Garrett's changes are positive. Now get us high picks in each round and an easy schedule and BOOM. We're back better than ever!

Look at the last 3 winners... Giants, Steelers, Saints... Not too long ago, they were all picking high in the draft. Giants took Eli, Steelers took Ben and the Saints nabbed Reggie. All key pieces towards their SB runs. Along with the picks they made at the top of each round. Ask them if it was worth being bad for a season to rebuild. They were all just like us. Better on paper than their record showed. They folded their cards correctly, tanked their season's and came back stronger than ever.

We'll keep floating around in mediocrity. But hey... IT'S POSSIBLE to hit on a player when you're picking outside of the top 10! LOL. How short sighted is that? Are drafts just 1 round these days? There is an added benefit of picking high in EVERY round. There is an added benefit of having an easy schedule. Going to the playoffs last year was great. But the tough schedule it got us, kicked us in the nards. We EVEN had limitations on how we could approach FA!!! It's much better to lose for 1 season and come back strong the next, than try to win meaningless games that do NOTHING... and say the reward is preventing a losing culture. A losing culture is built over several losing seasons. Not just 1. Losing this year wouldn't have put us in the category of the Lions... losing EVERY YEAR...

LOL@preventing a losing culture from starting by winning meaningless games.

/rant
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