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Old 03-03-2011, 10:44 AM    (permalink
Macarthur
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As the combine closes, I'm getting the feeling more and more that DL is where we go.

What would you guys preference be between Jordan, Watt. Clayborn?
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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As the combine closes, I'm getting the feeling more and more that DL is where we go.

What would you guys preference be between Jordan, Watt. Clayborn?
I like them all just not at #9

There is still some evaluation to sort through. I think Gabbert will either help or hurt his stock and I think Newton will do the same at his pro-day.

These two guys could determine if someone moves up to grab a QB.

Also, personally, I have like Julio Jones more than AJ Green all along, but with his amazing Combine performance, there is a chance that AJ and Julio both go in the top 8, which could allow one of the elite defensive guys to fall.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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As the combine closes, I'm getting the feeling more and more that DL is where we go.

What would you guys preference be between Jordan, Watt. Clayborn?
What gives you that feelings? Reason I ask is because I haven't heard any leaked info saying what position we might be leaning towards.


But on DL, I still don't feel Jordan is worth a top 10 pick, trade back then sure but if we trade back I want a RT more then anything. Watt proved he's worth a top 10 selection and it still doesn't give me complete confidence because so many average 3-4 DE's are picked high.



I'm personally trying to weight my choice on Tyron Smith and JJ Watt. I'd take both guys over Prince. So unless a guy like Dareus or Quinn falls to make it a tougher choice, it's down to those 2 guys for me personally and I don't see it changing.


If you asked me right now, I'd still take Tyron Smith. Not just because he has a ton of potential to be a pro bowl tackle(and he would start day 1 and is good enough to, none of that sit on the bench for a year stuff), but I just see how bad Columbo is at RT, figure how bad he'll be in 2011, and I know if we bring back Hatcher and Bowen were not nearly as bad of at DE then we'd be at RT.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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What gives you that feelings? Reason I ask is because I haven't heard any leaked info saying what position we might be leaning towards.


But on DL, I still don't feel Jordan is worth a top 10 pick, trade back then sure but if we trade back I want a RT more then anything. Watt proved he's worth a top 10 selection and it still doesn't give me complete confidence because so many average 3-4 DE's are picked high.



I'm personally trying to weight my choice on Tyron Smith and JJ Watt. I'd take both guys over Prince. So unless a guy like Dareus or Quinn falls to make it a tougher choice, it's down to those 2 guys for me personally and I don't see it changing.


If you asked me right now, I'd still take Tyron Smith. Not just because he has a ton of potential to be a pro bowl tackle(and he would start day 1 and is good enough to, none of that sit on the bench for a year stuff), but I just see how bad Columbo is at RT, figure how bad he'll be in 2011, and I know if we bring back Hatcher and Bowen were not nearly as bad of at DE then we'd be at RT.
I haven't seen or heard anything leaked. Just a gut feeling right now. I did hear Gosslin on with Norm the other day and he said this is the best DT draft he can remember. Given that there's just not any OL that seem worth of #9, I just get the feeling that we grab a DT. I do find it interesting that you think Watt is worthy of a top 10 pick but Jordan is not. I've check 33 sites that have done their post-combine rankings and they still have Jordan rated above Watt.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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As the combine closes, I'm getting the feeling more and more that DL is where we go.

What would you guys preference be between Jordan, Watt. Clayborn?
I've been on the Watt train for a while so I'm a bit biased, but as a 5 tech Watt is much better than both those guys. Jordan is strictly a LE in a 40 front, he's not physical enough to play inside IMO.

We've tossed around the idea of Prince at 9 but I think our need for an impact DL is much higher than a CB. If we can land 1 good S in FA I really think we'll see a big improvement in the secondary. I think it would be wise to jump on a CB somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round because this class is real deep at CB. Gimme Johnny Patrick in the 3rd over Prince at 9.

On the flipside I see Watt as the best DL in the draft and there is a huge dropoff between him and the guys who will be around in the 3rd like Ballard.

I think our strategy as far as rounds go should look something like this:

1. Watt
2. Best OL
3. Best CB

There's gonna be some great value at OL when we pick in the 2nd as well as CB value in the 3rd.

Just my take.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Anyone think Carimi can fall to the 2nd? He seems to be the odd man out out of the top Tackles, probably because he doesn't project well on the left side.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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I've been on the Watt train for a while so I'm a bit biased, but as a 5 tech Watt is much better than both those guys. Jordan is strictly a LE in a 40 front, he's not physical enough to play inside IMO.

We've tossed around the idea of Prince at 9 but I think our need for an impact DL is much higher than a CB. If we can land 1 good S in FA I really think we'll see a big improvement in the secondary. I think it would be wise to jump on a CB somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round because this class is real deep at CB. Gimme Johnny Patrick in the 3rd over Prince at 9.

On the flipside I see Watt as the best DL in the draft and there is a huge dropoff between him and the guys who will be around in the 3rd like Ballard.

I think our strategy as far as rounds go should look something like this:

1. Watt
2. Best OL
3. Best CB

There's gonna be some great value at OL when we pick in the 2nd as well as CB value in the 3rd.

Just my take.
I think this is a pretty reasonable post. I sure wish we had 2 firsts to solve DL and OL. :)
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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I haven't seen or heard anything leaked. Just a gut feeling right now. I did hear Gosslin on with Norm the other day and he said this is the best DT draft he can remember. Given that there's just not any OL that seem worth of #9, I just get the feeling that we grab a DT. I do find it interesting that you think Watt is worthy of a top 10 pick but Jordan is not. I've check 33 sites that have done their post-combine rankings and they still have Jordan rated above Watt.


I don't think many places have updated their rankings since the combine. I just think for a 3-4 DE to be top 10 you have to have some extreme measurables, it's not a position that demands a premium pick or player, so you have to prove your worth. That's what Dareus did. I think he showed up heavier then Fairley and outperformed him by far in most regards at the combine and showing what an athlete he was at that size.


Watt put on a show and it was one of the best performances of the past 10 years by a D-lineman. Watt and Jordan both have great film and measurables, but Watt's size, speed, strength, and explosiveness prove worth for the 9th pick to me.


Like somebody already pointed out his only knock was athleticism, now that he's shown to be a superb athlete there isn't much to not like. He's got that high motor you love, fundamentals, and jumps off the page with his explosion. Jordan is a top 20 prospect, he'll fall in that range, top 10 is just a different story, neither guy was looking good enough for me but IMO the combine is important to show what tools a guy has when your drafting him that high.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I haven't seen or heard anything leaked. Just a gut feeling right now. I did hear Gosslin on with Norm the other day and he said this is the best DT draft he can remember. Given that there's just not any OL that seem worth of #9, I just get the feeling that we grab a DT. I do find it interesting that you think Watt is worthy of a top 10 pick but Jordan is not. I've check 33 sites that have done their post-combine rankings and they still have Jordan rated above Watt.
Tyron Smith says hi. I'm still not sure how this guy isn't getting any love.

3-4 DEs are NOT worth top 10 picks. If we don't trade out of that spot it has to be a major position of need (Hatcher/Bowen are fine) or a 'premium' position (Prince etc). Our 3-4 DEs might be even less important depending on if Ryan keeps his scheme diverse tactics alive. And I've had Watt over Jordan (for 3-4 schemes) since the end of the season. The only knock he had coming into the combine was that he was a 'limited' athlete. He's a super high motor, great athlete, that has played consistently. Question is how will our DEs play under Ryan?

And 'looking at other draft sites' isn't a good way to go unless they rank based on your scheme. Jordan is A LOT better than Watt in 4-3 (both as a DE and both DT positions) but it isn't really that close when evaluating for 3-4 DE. Sort of like how CB rankings are a lot different for teams that run Cover 2. The ideal Cover 2 corner isn't the same as a press man scheme.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I haven't seen or heard anything leaked. Just a gut feeling right now. I did hear Gosslin on with Norm the other day and he said this is the best DT draft he can remember. Given that there's just not any OL that seem worth of #9, I just get the feeling that we grab a DT. I do find it interesting that you think Watt is worthy of a top 10 pick but Jordan is not. I've check 33 sites that have done their post-combine rankings and they still have Jordan rated above Watt.
Smith is worth the 9th pick. Many scouts seem to think he's a better prospect than Jason Smith, who the Rams took #2 overall a few years ago. Smith is just as talented as some of the top tackles that came out the last few years. And since he weighed in at an impressive looking 300+ opposed to the 280s. He's shooting up boards. The biggest questions were size/strength and he put those fears to rest.

As for DE...Watt is my guy between he and Jordan. And he is another one that is a fine selection at 9. And he can go even higher after those standout combine numbers. Dont worry about value, he's right within that range and again, can go even higher. Same with Smith.
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Part of me feels like if the organization really feels like Romo is the guy who can take them to the Super Bowl, the 1st priority is to protect his health. Therefore taking the best OT available at 9 is the way to go.
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Tyron Smith says hi. I'm still not sure how this guy isn't getting any love.

3-4 DEs are NOT worth top 10 picks. If we don't trade out of that spot it has to be a major position of need (Hatcher/Bowen are fine) or a 'premium' position (Prince etc). Our 3-4 DEs might be even less important depending on if Ryan keeps his scheme diverse tactics alive. And I've had Watt over Jordan (for 3-4 schemes) since the end of the season. The only knock he had coming into the combine was that he was a 'limited' athlete. He's a super high motor, great athlete, that has played consistently. Question is how will our DEs play under Ryan?

And 'looking at other draft sites' isn't a good way to go unless they rank based on your scheme. Jordan is A LOT better than Watt in 4-3 (both as a DE and both DT positions) but it isn't really that close when evaluating for 3-4 DE. Sort of like how CB rankings are a lot different for teams that run Cover 2. The ideal Cover 2 corner isn't the same as a press man scheme.
Hate to break it to you, but just because his name may not appear on this page doesn't mean he's not "getting love". I think this is your first post about him. Your more than late to the party. I think if you're going to say something like that, at least be accurate about it before criticizing us.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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We interviewed Johnny Patrick according to dmn. Wouldnt be a horrible selection in the 3rd at all. I wouldnt touch him before that.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Question for you Cowboys fans from a 49ers fan -

What do you think the chances are of Jerry Jones trading up from 9 to 6 if CB Patrick Peterson falls there?

As a 49ers fan, I want Peterson the most followed by Prince but im worried that if Peterson falls to 6, DAL will jump ahead of the 49ers to get him.

Also, secondary wise, if the Cowboys were to draft Peterson or Prince, what are the chances that Newman moves to FS?

Thanks.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Question for you Cowboys fans from a 49ers fan -

What do you think the chances are of Jerry Jones trading up from 9 to 6 if CB Patrick Peterson falls there?

As a 49ers fan, I want Peterson the most followed by Prince but im worried that if Peterson falls to 6, DAL will jump ahead of the 49ers to get him.

Also, secondary wise, if the Cowboys were to draft Peterson or Prince, what are the chances that Newman moves to FS?

Thanks.

It's a no brainer IMO that Jerry moves up for PP if he is there at 6, and that's not just what I'd want to happen. Report came out he's #1 on our board which isn't that hard to believe, and I think if he makes it to 4 we'll start giving it some thought and calling to ask for prices.




Same as when we jumped Baltimore for Dez, I think we know you guys would covet him, but not all those teams would wanna trade back. AZ may want Von Miller, Cleveland might want AJ Green. No guarantee those guys would be there if they move back, so just wanting to trade up is only half of it.


But I'm pretty certain we want to trade up, if we find a partner I think it's likely we try and jump you guys for him, hard to say if we do. Once he reaches Cincy, odds increase a bunch that we try and make it happen, and this is from someone who would prefer to stand pat and take Tyron but I'd be on cloud 9 if we got him.



Oh, and I think we'd play him at FS. Just way too big of a need, and Newman can play CB another season.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Anyone think Carimi can fall to the 2nd? He seems to be the odd man out out of the top Tackles, probably because he doesn't project well on the left side.
I think he proved enough at the Senior Bowl to warrant a top 20-25 pick, but you are right about the other hype with the guys. I was actually happy his combine numbers didnt jump out because it does give us a change to get him with our 2nd, small chance, but a chance none the less.

I also think we should take a CB in the 3rd round with this kind of depth. Especially if we take best defensive from 7 guy available with our first pick, given that we cant get PP and we can't trade back.

OT in Carimi with our 2nd pick and then a solid CB with our 3rd. I had a post a few weeks ago that talked about how taking CBs in the 4th round or later don't pan out very well. Yes, of course its the 4th or later and most draft picks dont pan out taken back there, but that just shows you how great of a steal Scandrick was in the 5th. If we find a guy like that, then I don't mind waiting until the 4th or 5th, but I would rather have a guy in the 2nd or 3rd in the CB position, because it is a position of need IMO.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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We interviewed Johnny Patrick according to dmn. Wouldnt be a horrible selection in the 3rd at all. I wouldnt touch him before that.
He's got skillz if you can live with the PI penalties. :/
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Question for you Cowboys fans from a 49ers fan -

What do you think the chances are of Jerry Jones trading up from 9 to 6 if CB Patrick Peterson falls there?

As a 49ers fan, I want Peterson the most followed by Prince but im worried that if Peterson falls to 6, DAL will jump ahead of the 49ers to get him.

Also, secondary wise, if the Cowboys were to draft Peterson or Prince, what are the chances that Newman moves to FS?

Thanks.
If PP falls to 6, I will have a fit if we don't move up. Never know what Jerry will do though, so I don't think any of us can really answer you.

If we get one of them, T-New will be cut. He could get cut before then. He's expected to make $8 or 9M I believe. He won't get that unless Jerry is crazier than I thought. I can see a restructure or something like AJ Hawk and the Packers.... cut and then rework something. Either way, I don't see Newman at FS. Ever.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Hate to break it to you, but just because his name may not appear on this page doesn't mean he's not "getting love". I think this is your first post about him. Your more than late to the party. I think if you're going to say something like that, at least be accurate about it before criticizing us.
:P Hey now. I've been talking about him since the end of the season. I wasn't criticizing anything but the statement that Macarthur stated "there are no OT worth a top 10 pick" hence my statement. I was saying the 'not getting love' due to him not being a widely accepted top 10 value. No need to be so defensive sheesh that's why I quoted someone so that it was understood whom I was talking to...

He's been in every mock I've done and in the conversation at 9 since he declared... so while I fully understand you posted A LOT on him during the off-season I didn't just come stumbling in and call you out. Sorry I haven't been posting here as much as in the mock draft section of the forum just pop my head in on occasion and comment.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I've watched some youtube this afternoon and I'm still not convinced he's a top 10 pick. He's good and probably the best OT, but I think he's more mid-teens. I haven't read anything comparing him to previous years, but I highly question him being rated as high as Jason Smith.

If I'm wrong, show me and I'll admit it.
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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:P Hey now. I've been talking about him since the end of the season. I wasn't criticizing anything but the statement that Macarthur stated "there are no OT worth a top 10 pick" hence my statement. I was saying the 'not getting love' due to him not being a widely accepted top 10 value. No need to be so defensive sheesh that's why I quoted someone so that it was understood whom I was talking to...

He's been in every mock I've done and in the conversation at 9 since he declared... so while I fully understand you posted A LOT on him during the off-season I didn't just come stumbling in and call you out. Sorry I haven't been posting here as much as in the mock draft section of the forum just pop my head in on occasion and comment.
I've just been in a funk lately. I shouldn't have taken it out on you. I can get defensive of our forum. ...and if anyone questioned stuff you had brought up for discussion, I would've stood up and got your back against them too. ;)
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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I've watched some youtube this afternoon and I'm still not convinced he's a top 10 pick. He's good and probably the best OT, but I think he's more mid-teens. I haven't read anything comparing him to previous years, but I highly question him being rated as high as Jason Smith.

If I'm wrong, show me and I'll admit it.
First problem is... Youtube cilps. End of story.

No, but really, you have to see him in games. I've seen A LOT of USC games and I've simply come to believe my eyes. ...and my eyes tell me, he's a smudge under being considered an elite prospect. Why? For one, the lack of LT experience. Secondly, we don't know how he'll perform with the added weight. I only know him as a 285-290 pounder. While I think the added weight is great, there is that unknown factor.

Dude has a beast mentality though. That hasn't changed. Getting downfield to block is something he does very well. He's extremely nimble on his feet and his balance is a strength. It helps him recover quicker than most othe tackles. He could have a problem getting pushed back against the bullrush, but that was more of a concern for me when he was 285. He's got the long arms, very good strength (more importantly the desire to get stronger). He lives in the weight room and his ethic is what you want it to be.

I've been saying all along that he is a part of the new breed of OTs that the league is transforming to. Swapping fat for athleticism. Incredible upside, but I admit the floor is not as high as you want it to be either. He could be D'Brick or he could be Alex Barron. Pretty scary thing if you lack confidence in him.

Jason Williams is not a good comparison. He was always soft.
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Hows about

Best guess at FA. They sign Michael Huff and Tyson Clabo as starters. They let Spears go apparently.

Colombo, Barber, Leonard Davis, Ball cut.

Brooking and Igor hang on for a while I guess :/

Dallas trades a 3rd and change to the Browns for 6. Browns targeting Julio Jones at 9.

6 - Patrick Peterson - CB/S - LSU - Its early March, Ive got nothing else to say on him

Dallas trades down to the late 2nd to get back a 3rd

2nd - Stephen Wisnewski - C/G - Penn St. - If he makes it. The perfect interior offensive linemen for us. Smart, tough, physical. Mayock said he has the best technique hes ever seen. A+ intangibles and he can replace Gurode at center down the line.

3rd - Bruce Carter - LB - UNC - 6'2"/240/Possible 4.5 40 time - Coming off an injury if not he might have been a late 1st rounder. I love this guys athleticism and fluidness. Very natural IMO. Suped-up Jason Williams except I never thought he looked lost on the field. Blocked 8 kicks in his career.

Trade down in the 4th to pick up a 5th

4th - James Brewer - T - Indiana - 6'6"/330 - Remember him? He looked like a stud at the combine in notoriously tough pass protection drills. Has health concerns and some question his motor but he is an excellent blocker and has great potential. Long arms and overall good athleticism.

5th - Cedric Thorton - DE - Southern Arkansas - 6'3"/309 - Held up well in double teams at Senior Bowl

5th - Brandon Fusco - C - Slippery Rock - 6'4"/316/ 5.09 40 - 4 years of experience and a good size/speed/strength ratio.


6th - Alex Henery - K - Deal with it

7th - Anthony Sherman - FB - UCONN - 5'10"/240/4.67 40/ 32 reps
- Sick fullback class. I guess if youre going to use one this is the year to get one. This guy paved the way for the super mediocre Donald Brown to get drafted in the 1st round and Jordan Toddman(Who I like) might go R2
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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I've watched some youtube this afternoon and I'm still not convinced he's a top 10 pick. He's good and probably the best OT, but I think he's more mid-teens. I haven't read anything comparing him to previous years, but I highly question him being rated as high as Jason Smith.

If I'm wrong, show me and I'll admit it.
Ask and ye shall receive

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2011/02...llas-much.html


Wes Bunting: We've talked about Tyron Smith. When you look at his lower half, it's begging for weight. It's a big, broad frame. He's 20 years old and when he focuses on adding weight, it didn't surprise me that he was up that quickly. He's at 307 right now. He's just under 6'5'', which I kind of like, that's what Roger Safford is. He's got 35 inch arms. I've heard he's gonna bench well. He could get up to 320 without losing any athleticism if he's up to 307 already.

CN: You're heard this from legimate sources that he's up to 307?

WB: Yeah

CN: Let's leave him at 307. Let's say he goes to the Combine at that weight and he's 6'4'' and a half. What does that do for him? Where does that move him on draft boards?

WB: On mine he's not moving. I was expecting this. I guess some NFL teams would move him up, cause he's a little heavier. Remember, this is going to be the first time a lot of these juniors work out for NFL teams. They're getting a better feel for these guys. It's not necessarily that they're moving up or down, but that scouts are getting good looks at these guys and tweaking their boards as a consequence.

From what I've heard from the sources I talked to, he's 307. He's still gonna run in the 4.9 to sub-4.9 range, and with 35 inch arms he could bench press 225 pounds more than 25 times. That's a heck of a workout right there. And he's got good tape. And he's 20 years old [Smith turned 20 on December 12th]. You add all that up and I wouldn't have any qualms about taking him in the top ten picks.

CN: You had him in your last mock going to the Redskins at 10. In the past, a lot of the nay-sayers on my site would look at the Cowboys offensive linemen profiles and history and say, there's no way Dallas takes a lineman that light, no matter how well he moves. At this weight, I can't think of any NFL team that would have misgivings selecting him.

WB: No, and this is how funny the NFL is. You look back at Jason Smith from Baylor, who went 2nd overall. I thought he was the 4th best OT in that class. It's kind of, who has the first say, and which player has a consensus around his spot that determines where he goes.

I think Tyron Smith is twice the pro prospect that Jason Smith was.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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BTW Atogwe signed with Washington!!! GRRRRRRR!!!!

EDIT Sanders signed with SD too....
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