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Old 03-04-2011, 01:47 AM    (permalink
Bonzai
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I don't see Newman at FS. Ever.
Why's that? I know this isn't Madden where you can plug players wherver you want, but I'm just curious to hear your take on it.

I personally think he can make the switch. Last year was a little rough, but other than that, he has shown he can be very very physical and can hit which 100 lb. Alan Ball couldn't do. Also, I believe he would be a ballhawk back there. He really struggled in man last year (first "bad" yr for him, in general, IMO), but he's the type of guy that will make plays that are in front of him, which is what will be happening if he's lined up at safety.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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Newman makes a few big hits here and there, but it's completely different playing FS and expecting to be involved in the running game consistently. He'd never stay healthy, and would never be physical enough. I wouldn't feel good about Newman starting anywhere in our secondary anymore at this point, he's a liability at the worst times.



Anyone remember a few years ago when we were up on Pittsburgh, the December game in Pitt. We were holding on, then Holmes burns Newman down the sideline for a long 3rd down play that breaks the game open.


He's been doing that kinda stuff for a long time. It's not like he's gotten younger or better since then. He's not terrible, but he gets burned way too easy.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Ask and ye shall receive

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2011/02...llas-much.html


Wes Bunting: We've talked about Tyron Smith. When you look at his lower half, it's begging for weight. It's a big, broad frame. He's 20 years old and when he focuses on adding weight, it didn't surprise me that he was up that quickly. He's at 307 right now. He's just under 6'5'', which I kind of like, that's what Roger Safford is. He's got 35 inch arms. I've heard he's gonna bench well. He could get up to 320 without losing any athleticism if he's up to 307 already.

CN: You're heard this from legimate sources that he's up to 307?

WB: Yeah

CN: Let's leave him at 307. Let's say he goes to the Combine at that weight and he's 6'4'' and a half. What does that do for him? Where does that move him on draft boards?

WB: On mine he's not moving. I was expecting this. I guess some NFL teams would move him up, cause he's a little heavier. Remember, this is going to be the first time a lot of these juniors work out for NFL teams. They're getting a better feel for these guys. It's not necessarily that they're moving up or down, but that scouts are getting good looks at these guys and tweaking their boards as a consequence.

From what I've heard from the sources I talked to, he's 307. He's still gonna run in the 4.9 to sub-4.9 range, and with 35 inch arms he could bench press 225 pounds more than 25 times. That's a heck of a workout right there. And he's got good tape. And he's 20 years old [Smith turned 20 on December 12th]. You add all that up and I wouldn't have any qualms about taking him in the top ten picks.

CN: You had him in your last mock going to the Redskins at 10. In the past, a lot of the nay-sayers on my site would look at the Cowboys offensive linemen profiles and history and say, there's no way Dallas takes a lineman that light, no matter how well he moves. At this weight, I can't think of any NFL team that would have misgivings selecting him.

WB: No, and this is how funny the NFL is. You look back at Jason Smith from Baylor, who went 2nd overall. I thought he was the 4th best OT in that class. It's kind of, who has the first say, and which player has a consensus around his spot that determines where he goes.

I think Tyron Smith is twice the pro prospect that Jason Smith was.
Hmm. Interesting.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Newman makes a few big hits here and there, but it's completely different playing FS and expecting to be involved in the running game consistently. He'd never stay healthy, and would never be physical enough. I wouldn't feel good about Newman starting anywhere in our secondary anymore at this point, he's a liability at the worst times.



Anyone remember a few years ago when we were up on Pittsburgh, the December game in Pitt. We were holding on, then Holmes burns Newman down the sideline for a long 3rd down play that breaks the game open.


He's been doing that kinda stuff for a long time. It's not like he's gotten younger or better since then. He's not terrible, but he gets burned way too easy.
Someone with his speed shouldn't get burnt like that. It's funny, he gets burnt and then is easily able to chase them down.

At any rate, I'm fine with him as our NB moving forward. We need a shut down corner opposite Jenkins.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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The more I think about it the more I see the Cowboys being in a really advantageous position in the draft. I see either A.J. Green or Julio Jones falling far enough for trades to happen at #9. You also have to throw in the quarterbacks as well. People go nuts for quarterbacks in the draft, and this year #9 looks like a better spot than in the top 5. If someone doesn't fall to the Cowboys like Peterson they can just move back and still get one of many guys that they like along with some picks. I'd be thrilled if they stood pat and got Dareus or Prince, but if they don't there are some really good trade options for them with Gabbert and Newton sneaking somewhere in the top 10. I'm thinking a trade down, getting Carimi, and then picking up a corner or safety that slipped into the second.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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If we trade back the only thing I want is a RT, I'm firm on that. At that point, I'd take Carimi, Castanzo, Sherrod, who cares. If we could pick up an extra 2nd and a starting RT I'd give up Tyron Smith unless someone we wanted dropped to our laps.



An extra 2nd rounder is huge. That's a franchise Guard in this class and I'll take it.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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If we trade back the only thing I want is a RT, I'm firm on that. At that point, I'd take Carimi, Castanzo, Sherrod, who cares. If we could pick up an extra 2nd and a starting RT I'd give up Tyron Smith unless someone we wanted dropped to our laps.



An extra 2nd rounder is huge. That's a franchise Guard in this class and I'll take it.
With 2 2nd round picks we could go CB or S and G.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Carmini, Cannon and Ras-I or Moore!
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I have my doubts, but Dareus has been falling in a lot of "expert" mocks lately. I'd def. be on board for this one as well...I still value OL much higher, but Dareus can be just oh so dominant at End for us.

Plus he reminds me of a giant teddy bear off the field and has the exact same sounding voice and mannerisms of Craig Robinson. lol.

Really though, I really want an O-Lineman early. Really early. I'm pretty hung up on Smith at the moment, and I dont see that changing. He's my #1 guy right now. But like LL, I like the trade back scenario as well.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Carmini, Cannon and Ras-I or Moore!
I would be so pumped if we pulled this off!

HOwever, I'm starting to cool on Moore. AFter reading much of the buzz after the combine, this is a terrible safety draft. I like Ras, if not him maybe a DL. I think the value early in this draft is OL and DL.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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I didn't pay attention to Tyron Smith during the USC games I watched, so I can't really get excited for him. I'm certainly not opposed, it's just that I don't know much about him besides the buzz. If they get him I won't complain, but since I have seen Carimi more I would really love to see him in the blue and silver.
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I was listening to Pat Jones today (OSU, Raiders, Miami) he said under NO circumstance would he draft an O-Lineman in the 1st round. He said Jimmy would never do it (and never did) and that he and others begged Al Davis not to draft Robert Gallery but Al wouldnt listen. He and Jimmy believe you can find OL all through the draft without a lot of drop off. I know Jerry hasnt had much success drafting OL but I have a feeling he shares these thoughts. I'll be shocked if we go there in the 1st.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I'd be surprised if we go o-line also...but we should.
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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I was listening to Pat Jones today (OSU, Raiders, Miami) he said under NO circumstance would he draft an O-Lineman in the 1st round. He said Jimmy would never do it (and never did) and that he and others begged Al Davis not to draft Robert Gallery but Al wouldnt listen. He and Jimmy believe you can find OL all through the draft without a lot of drop off. I know Jerry hasnt had much success drafting OL but I have a feeling he shares these thoughts. I'll be shocked if we go there in the 1st.

Yep. So I think I need to let that go, it's just not likely to happen. Nothing worse then watching the draft, seeing all these guys fall to our pick and we do something off the wall with that pick.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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I understand the philosophy of not using a first rounder on an O-lineman. The Cowboys picked the all time OL god Larry Allen in the second, and they picked up Flozell there too. Not to mention the great 90's line that didn't have a single first rounder in the mix but dominated great defenses to three Super Bowls.

I get that it can work, but I wouldn't be so married to that philosophy that I would pass up a good guy if he's the only option. I really like Carimi, and if he's there and looking like the best fit I'd go ahead and take him. Same thing with Smith if you like him. There are players I would rather have like Prince, Peterson, and Dareus, but they would look real good here.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I understand the philosophy of not using a first rounder on an O-lineman. The Cowboys picked the all time OL god Larry Allen in the second, and they picked up Flozell there too. Not to mention the great 90's line that didn't have a single first rounder in the mix but dominated great defenses to three Super Bowls.

I get that it can work, but I wouldn't be so married to that philosophy that I would pass up a good guy if he's the only option. I really like Carimi, and if he's there and looking like the best fit I'd go ahead and take him. Same thing with Smith if you like him. There are players I would rather have like Prince, Peterson, and Dareus, but they would look real good here.
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Really though, I really want an O-Lineman early. Really early. I'm pretty hung up on Smith at the moment, and I dont see that changing. He's my #1 guy right now. But like LL, I like the trade back scenario as well.
The Dallas FO has a hard on for Smith now too, & I have keep reminding myself that this isn't the sexy pick that Jerry loves, & this is after all the Cowboys we're talking here so you have to acknowledge there long history of ignoring the Drafting for Need approach. Smith's emergence at the Combine was such that I thin it is being married in the minds of the draft gurus at Dallas with the obvious Fix the OL 1st philosophy. I think there focus on Smith is genuine this time.

Something that's being somewhat forgotten in the predraft buzz now to is replacing Kitna, to say he's aging (he's going to be like 38 I think) is a big understatement & the backup QB spot simply has to be addressed for youth in a new CBA yr where there won't be many FAs available. There will be late-round value at QB available, so someone being talked about as underrated like Andy Dalton, who posted an undefeated college season, from nextdoor at TCU in Ft. Worth is an option in the 4th - 5th rds, or maybe from my program at Bama, Greg McElroy, a lifetime p/o the Cowboys Orgn. Extended Family as son of their VP of Sales & on a 1st name basis with Jerry & the Dallas inner circle who posted an undefeated 09 season & an NC ring, could be viable options for a younger backup. Can't wait too long though, the 7th rd. pick was spent already in the last supplemental draft on a NT.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
The Dallas FO has a hard on for Smith now too, & I have keep reminding myself that this isn't the sexy pick that Jerry loves, & this is after all the Cowboys we're talking here so you have to acknowledge there long history of ignoring the Drafting for Need approach. Smith's emergence at the Combine was such that I thin it is being married in the minds of the draft gurus at Dallas with the obvious Fix the OL 1st philosophy. I think there focus on Smith is genuine this time.

Something that's being somewhat forgotten in the predraft buzz now to is replacing Kitna, to say he's aging (he's going to be like 38 I think) is a big understatement & the backup QB spot simply has to be addressed for youth in a new CBA yr where there won't be many FAs available. There will be late-round value at QB available, so someone being talked about as underrated like Andy Dalton, who posted an undefeated college season, from nextdoor at TCU in Ft. Worth is an option in the 4th - 5th rds, or maybe from my program at Bama, Greg McElroy, a lifetime p/o the Cowboys Orgn. Extended Family as son of their VP of Sales & on a 1st name basis with Jerry & the Dallas inner circle who posted an undefeated 09 season & an NC ring, could be viable options for a younger backup. Can't wait too long though, the 7th rd. pick was spent already in the last supplemental draft on a NT.
Have not heard that. Link??
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LizardState View Post
The Dallas FO has a hard on for Smith now too, & I have keep reminding myself that this isn't the sexy pick that Jerry loves, & this is after all the Cowboys we're talking here so you have to acknowledge there long history of ignoring the Drafting for Need approach. Smith's emergence at the Combine was such that I thin it is being married in the minds of the draft gurus at Dallas with the obvious Fix the OL 1st philosophy. I think there focus on Smith is genuine this time.

Something that's being somewhat forgotten in the predraft buzz now to is replacing Kitna, to say he's aging (he's going to be like 38 I think) is a big understatement & the backup QB spot simply has to be addressed for youth in a new CBA yr where there won't be many FAs available. There will be late-round value at QB available, so someone being talked about as underrated like Andy Dalton, who posted an undefeated college season, from nextdoor at TCU in Ft. Worth is an option in the 4th - 5th rds, or maybe from my program at Bama, Greg McElroy, a lifetime p/o the Cowboys Orgn. Extended Family as son of their VP of Sales & on a 1st name basis with Jerry & the Dallas inner circle who posted an undefeated 09 season & an NC ring, could be viable options for a younger backup. Can't wait too long though, the 7th rd. pick was spent already in the last supplemental draft on a NT.
If they are interested that's good. Like I mentioned before I didn't pay attention to Smith in the USC games I watched, but it's nice to know that they are at least expanding their options.

As for a Kitna replacement, I wouldn't even think of it in this draft. They just draft McGee with a fairly high pick two years ago, and even if he isn't the guy I doubt it will be a rookie from this draft. If McGee isn't the replacement, then I would go with a younger vet in Free Agency.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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If they are interested that's good. Like I mentioned before I didn't pay attention to Smith in the USC games I watched, but it's nice to know that they are at least expanding their options.

As for a Kitna replacement, I wouldn't even think of it in this draft. They just draft McGee with a fairly high pick two years ago, and even if he isn't the guy I doubt it will be a rookie from this draft. If McGee isn't the replacement, then I would go with a younger vet in Free Agency.
I like Matt Leinart. ;)
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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I like Matt Leinart. ;)
No idea why, except where he played college. ;0
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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Have not heard that. Link??

Yea I saw him post that in another part of the forum and asked for a link also. I would love it if it were true but I haven't heard anything like that.



Anyway, I'm starting to think trading up for Peterson is actually a realistic option.


It looks like two QB's are going top 5, even if say Gabbert slides out then I think Tennessee makes the easy pick at 8. Either way it's looking like a very strong possibility.


3 other guys I consider a lock to go are Von Miller, Daquan Bowers, and AJ Green. I honestly think Peterson makes it out of the top 5 where we would likely use a 3rd or a few mid round picks to move up.


The wildcard team is the Bills, I think they are going QB first and D-line 2nd, but if he slips by them we would have the Bengals, Cards, & Browns to deal up with. Thing is, it's not a given any of those teams want to move down, because if their guy is sitting there no way they move back down.



We just need to jump SF, the more I see Peterson going 7th in mocks the more I think it's likely to make that move.


Also while were on that topic, I get the feelings Jerry would keep him at CB, especially with Newman a good guess to get cut. So we'd still have a hole at Safety, while I'm all for PP playing FS I don't think it happens unless he fails at CB ie Antrell Rolle & Malcolm Jenkins.



If he gets into that 4-6 range, we should be able to keep our 2nd rounder.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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I also read some really good reviews on Watt from Mayock, who has him rated over Jordan:



Quote:
Appearing on NFL Network's Total Access Monday night, NFL Network's Mike Mayock raved about Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt.
"I just watched him on tape today against TCU in the Rose Bowl," said Mayock. "He's a beast. He's a first-round pick." Mayock moved Watt to the top of his draft board among 3-4 defensive ends, ranking Watt ahead of Cameron Jordan and Cameron Heyward. Watt is certainly the best pure pass rusher of the group.
Source: NFL.com Feb 8, 9:52 AM




Quote:
NFL Network's Mike Mayock calls Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt the best "five-technique" end he's ever seen.
"Better than Tyson Jackson who went No. 3 overall [in the 2009 draft]," added Mayock. Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema, who coached Aaron Kampman at Iowa, says he's never had "anybody better" as a defensive lineman. "J.J.'s just got a little more burst and athletic ability," said Bielema. "But same type of temperament."
Source: AtlantaFalcons.com Feb 27, 5:44 PM



Calling him the best 5 tech he's ever seen is some mighty high praise, would make me feel comfortable with the pick. I'm either on board with trading up for Peterson, or standing where we are and taking Tyron Smith or Watt.


Probably like those ideas more then trading down, I would have no problem taking an elite player just to take advantage of having a top 10 pick.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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I've been on the Watt train for a while so I'm a bit biased, but as a 5 tech Watt is much better than both those guys. Jordan is strictly a LE in a 40 front, he's not physical enough to play inside IMO.

We've tossed around the idea of Prince at 9 but I think our need for an impact DL is much higher than a CB. If we can land 1 good S in FA I really think we'll see a big improvement in the secondary. I think it would be wise to jump on a CB somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round because this class is real deep at CB. Gimme Johnny Patrick in the 3rd over Prince at 9.

On the flipside I see Watt as the best DL in the draft and there is a huge dropoff between him and the guys who will be around in the 3rd like Ballard.

I think our strategy as far as rounds go should look something like this:

1. Watt
2. Best OL
3. Best CB

There's gonna be some great value at OL when we pick in the 2nd as well as CB value in the 3rd.

Just my take.
I couldn't help but point out how bias this post is.

You said "Jordan is strictly a LE in a 40 front". Is this a projection on your part....or did you not watch one single game that Jordan played in?

You might want to backup that statement since that is quite far away from the norm. While I love people bringing up new ideas that haven't been talked about...you didn't back that up with any facts.

If you can bring in some talk about Jordan lacking physicality I'd love that as well...pretty sure I can quote anyone from the senior bowl or coaching staff and not see the word soft.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Question for you Cowboys fans from a 49ers fan -

What do you think the chances are of Jerry Jones trading up from 9 to 6 if CB Patrick Peterson falls there?

As a 49ers fan, I want Peterson the most followed by Prince but im worried that if Peterson falls to 6, DAL will jump ahead of the 49ers to get him.

Also, secondary wise, if the Cowboys were to draft Peterson or Prince, what are the chances that Newman moves to FS?

Thanks.
If Peterson fall out of the top 5 Dallas will make some phone calls. I don't expect them to overpay. I'd be very surprised if Dallas was willing to give up their first 2 picks for him. 1st and 3rd would probably be the cost that dallas would buy. Not sure how the player trading will work but that is something that might have more value...not sure if you can trade players with no CBA though.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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The Dallas FO has a hard on for Smith now too, & I have keep reminding myself that this isn't the sexy pick that Jerry loves, & this is after all the Cowboys we're talking here so you have to acknowledge there long history of ignoring the Drafting for Need approach. Smith's emergence at the Combine was such that I thin it is being married in the minds of the draft gurus at Dallas with the obvious Fix the OL 1st philosophy. I think there focus on Smith is genuine this time.

Something that's being somewhat forgotten in the predraft buzz now to is replacing Kitna, to say he's aging (he's going to be like 38 I think) is a big understatement & the backup QB spot simply has to be addressed for youth in a new CBA yr where there won't be many FAs available. There will be late-round value at QB available, so someone being talked about as underrated like Andy Dalton, who posted an undefeated college season, from nextdoor at TCU in Ft. Worth is an option in the 4th - 5th rds, or maybe from my program at Bama, Greg McElroy, a lifetime p/o the Cowboys Orgn. Extended Family as son of their VP of Sales & on a 1st name basis with Jerry & the Dallas inner circle who posted an undefeated 09 season & an NC ring, could be viable options for a younger backup. Can't wait too long though, the 7th rd. pick was spent already in the last supplemental draft on a NT.
McGee played well enough to keep his job imo. Garrett was very approving of him on the field after week 17. If we were to bring in someone McElroy makes the most sense....his wonderlic score is attractive as is his W/L record...but that said I think McGee earned himself a roster spot in 2011 by his play in week 17. We won't/shouldn't draft a 4th QB.

Also just to note...we lost a 7th round pick in the supplemental...but we also have SD's 7th round pick from the Crayton deal.
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